Feds Vow To Get Tough On Illegals

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Jeffrey

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**:clapping: **
**Tue Aug 23 2005 17:15:30 ET

Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, acknowledging public frustration over illegal immigration, said Tuesday that the federal government’s detention and deportation system must be fundamentally restructured.

“We have decided to stand back and take a look at how we address the problem and solve it once and for all,” Chertoff said during a breakfast meeting with reporters.

The NEW YORK TIMES is planning a front page placement for the Chertoff comments on Wednesday, newsroom sources tell the DRUDGE REPORT.

The unusually blunt assessment by the nation’s top immigration official comes after governors in New Mexico and Arizona recently declared a border-related “state of emergency,” citing a surge in smuggling and violence associated with the steady flow of illegal immigrants.

Developing… **

drudgereport.com/flash2.htm
 
These people already have desparate lives. I feel sorry for them. They’re human beings! 😦
 
So tell thier governments to treat them as such.
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HelpingHands:
These people already have desparate lives. I feel sorry for them. They’re human beings! 😦
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The Church is always telling us to welcome all immigrants, even those here illegally. I think their governments have a lot of problems and aren’t as rich as ours. America is very blessed with wealth compared to other countries.
 
I disagree… they need to come over legally. I go to St. John Vianney parish… and they most certainly do not encourage illegals.
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HelpingHands:
The Church is always telling us to welcome all immigrants, even those here illegally. I think their governments have a lot of problems and aren’t as rich as ours. America is very blessed with wealth compared to other countries.
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The message I get at church is that we are to welcome all immigrants. Read this. Our church is strongly pro-immigration.

Catholic Bishops on Immigration

I think they basically see illegal immigration a natural result of our restrictive laws. 🙂
 
Thats too bad… I disagree with them. The illegals here need to be shipped back.

Also… they need a much better screening process to weed out the criminals etc. for the ones that can legally come over here.
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HelpingHands:
The message I get at church is that we are to welcome all immigrants. Read this. Our church is strongly pro-immigration.

Catholic Bishops on Immigration

I think they basically see illegal immigration a natural result of our restrictive laws. 🙂
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HelpingHands:
I think they basically see illegal immigration a natural result of our restrictive laws. 🙂
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What restrictive laws? We have an open door policy. Also, No, they need to be stopped. They do not contribute anything. They either live off welfare or have jobs where they can be treated poorly and be taken advantage of and have no recourse, AND, do they put the money they get paid back in circulation here? It wouldn’t surprise me if they send it to help people back home…which isn’t good for our economy.

ALSO, apparently you have not been somewhere in the US where you go to a place (fast food joint, retail store of sorts), and the hired help DOES NOT SPEAK A WORD OF ENGLISH!!! THAT has got to stop.

I agree, come here legally, but, if I have my suspicions, INS WILL be called!!!
 
Well, there’s no stopping them anyways. So I always try and pray the serenity prayer for things I can’t change. They’re merely people looking for a better life. They love having kids, unlike so many Americans. They seem like the poor that Jesus was always talking about. I think we should have a Christian attitude towards them. We’re supposed to.
 
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Jeffrey:
Thats too bad… I disagree with them. The illegals here need to be shipped back.

Also… they need a much better screening process to weed out the criminals etc. for the ones that can legally come over here.
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Did you note that from the comments allowed, most people feel the way we do and do not see eye-to-eye with this desicion?
 
Most people don’t really live the Gospel Message fully. Most of us here in the U.S. are pretty materialistic, even devout Catholics. I include myself in that. It’s hard to be holy.
 
Went back and gave it another read… your correct. This one cracked me up tho:

*US Bishops want a path to citizen for illegal criminal invaders. I would like a path to deportation for US Bishops.
*
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adstrinity:
Did you note that from the comments allowed, most people feel the way we do and do not see eye-to-eye with this desicion?
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I’m surprised you would mock the Bishops. I think they are correctly sticking up for the poor. It’s not easy, I know. A certain element of illegals is criminal, so it makes it hard to accept it. But, Christ talked about the poor a lot, and so does the rest of the Bible.
 
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HelpingHands:
I’m surprised you would mock the Bishops. I think they are correctly sticking up for the poor. It’s not easy, I know. A certain element of illegals is criminal, so it makes it hard to accept it. But, Christ talked about the poor a lot, and so does the rest of the Bible.
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I don’t take issue with the poor. I am the poor. “A certain element”? When we’re talking about the Mexicans, all are criminal. They, to the best of my knowledge, aren’t fleeing government persecution. We give aid to war criminals. These people want to come to the Country, avoid all laws, avoid all taxes, and expect us to burden it. This will ruin America. FURTHERMORE, it will ruin the chances of the Mexicans who would LOVE to come to this country and believes in EVERYTHING for which it stands and, as such, will go through the proper chanels to get here. They want all of the recess without any of the school work, the ILLEGALS. I must agree with some of the posters in the link you provided. Have the Church help them out IN Mexico.
 
Well, I can understand how you feel. It’s very easy to. I know a lot of people are irritated with the situation But, it’s going to continue anyways, there’s no stopping it.
 
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HelpingHands:
Well, I can understand how you feel. It’s very easy to. I know a lot of people are irritated with the situation But, it’s going to continue anyways, there’s no stopping it.
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I disagree. There are ways of stopping it. If nothing else, lessening it. One must admit, these people aren’t very Catholic if they want to do things illegally.
 
I would like to quote from the Catholic Catechism some pertinant passages for your benefit, and that of others.

The first citation explains that theft is not a sin if neccessary to provide the basic neccessities of existance. I think many illegals do fall under this clause.

*2408 The seventh commandment forbids theft, that is, usurping another’s property against the reasonable will of the owner. There is no theft if consent can be presumed or if refusal is contrary to reason and the universal destination of goods. This is the case in obvious and urgent necessity when the only way to provide for immediate, essential needs (food, shelter, clothing . . .) is to put at one’s disposal and use the property of others.*190]

Love for the poor is well stated in these clauses. I think illegal immigrants are definately the poor and destitute.

*2443 God blesses those who come to the aid of the poor and rebukes those who turn away from them: “Give to him who begs from you, do not refuse him who would borrow from you”; “you received without pay, give without pay.”[231] It is by what they have done for the poor that Jesus Christ will recognize his chosen ones.[232] When “the poor have the good news preached to them,” it is the sign of Christ’s presence.[233]

2444 “The Church’s love for the poor . . . is a part of her constant tradition.” This love is inspired by the Gospel of the Beatitudes, of the poverty of Jesus, and of his concern for the poor.[234] Love for the poor is even one of the motives for the duty of working so as to “be able to give to those in need.”[235] It extends not only to material poverty but also to the many forms of cultural and religious poverty.[236] *

2446 St. John Chrysostom vigorously recalls this: “Not to enable the poor to share in our goods is to steal from them and deprive them of life. The goods we possess are not ours, but theirs.”[238] “The demands of justice must be satisfied first of all; that which is already due in justice is not to be offered as a gift of charity”:[239]
When we attend to the needs of those in want, we give them what is theirs, not ours. More than performing works of mercy, we are paying a debt of justice.[240]

I think these are stirring and beautiful passages… 🙂
 
Thats nice… illegal immigrants… is still morally wrong. **Stealing is still stealing. **Try asking that of the poor ppl that have to live next to the southern border. Thier stuff gets stolen and broken regularly (wish I could find that link again 😦 )

Plus the fact that lots of drugs dealers use that border also. Not to mention hardened criminals etc.

BUILD THE WALL!!!

Have the National Guard patrol it.

I;m also for securing our border to the north too.
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HelpingHands:
I would like to quote from the Catholic Catechism some pertinant passages for your benefit, and that of others.

The first citation explains that theft is not a sin if neccessary to provide the basic neccessities of existance. I think many illegals do fall under this clause.

*2408 The seventh commandment forbids theft, that is, usurping another’s property against the reasonable will of the owner. There is no theft if consent can be presumed or if refusal is contrary to reason and the universal destination of goods. This is the case in obvious and urgent necessity when the only way to provide for immediate, essential needs (food, shelter, clothing . . .) is to put at one’s disposal and use the property of others.*190]

Love for the poor is well stated in these clauses. I think illegal immigrants are definately the poor and destitute.

*2443 God blesses those who come to the aid of the poor and rebukes those who turn away from them: “Give to him who begs from you, do not refuse him who would borrow from you”; “you received without pay, give without pay.”[231] It is by what they have done for the poor that Jesus Christ will recognize his chosen ones.[232] When “the poor have the good news preached to them,” it is the sign of Christ’s presence.[233] *

*2444 “The Church’s love for the poor . . . is a part of her constant tradition.” This love is inspired by the Gospel of the Beatitudes, of the poverty of Jesus, and of his concern for the poor.[234] Love for the poor is even one of the motives for the duty of working so as to “be able to give to those in need.”[235] It extends not only to material poverty but also to the many forms of cultural and religious poverty.[236] *

*2446 St. John Chrysostom vigorously recalls this: “Not to enable the poor to share in our goods is to steal from them and deprive them of life. The goods we possess are not ours, but theirs.”[238] “The demands of justice must be satisfied first of all; that which is already due in justice is not to be offered as a gift of charity”:[239] *
*When we attend to the needs of those in want, we give them what is theirs, not ours. More than performing works of mercy, we are paying a debt of justice.[240] *

I think these are stirring and beautiful passages… 🙂
Click to expand...
 
I say we help the poor too, but, letting them come to this country w/o paperwork, w/o having to pay taxes, OR having them come here to be exploited (which is what happens) will not help their situation.

I don’t understand why don’t they just do the legal things to come over here.

I was telling this to a friend of mine, having the illegals come over here only makes the situation worse for those who legally DID.
 
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HelpingHands:
Well, I can understand how you feel. It’s very easy to. I know a lot of people are irritated with the situation But, it’s going to continue anyways, there’s no stopping it.
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If you saw someone breaking into another person’s house, would you not try and stop them, or call the police?
If you saw someone shoplifting, would you not try and stop them?
It’s not a matter of compassion, it’s a matter of legality.
My family came here over 20 years ago. It took 3 years to get the paperwork through, royal pain in the booty. However, we did not break the law, tedious as it can be, because we are not criminals.
It’s as simple as that. If you want to be American, or be in America, the first thing you should do is respect the laws of the land or go home.
 
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