Feelings!

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joeybaggz said:
Or may to ask a different question. If there is no need for a soul given evolution is a continuous process,are we evolving, or devolving?
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We are evolving but we are the only species that devolved radically due to discovering agriculture.
joeybaggz said:
After all, a body without a soul is a corpse; or if it is animated, a mere animal, like the rest of the jungle.
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What moves animal, their brains, move us. We are pretty similar.
 
STT said:
Apparently there was a conflict in man to perform the first sin?
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Not a conflict, just a desire for the ultimate good, which he still lacked the wisdom to understand he already had, and/or could have even more fully with the right choice.
 
STT said:
I am afraid I cannot understand how what you stated is a proper response to my argument. Do you agree that we cannot live life without feeling? Reason just give direction to our lives.
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Yes, I agree. But I disagree that the two need be in some sort of conflict, only that they are unnaturally conflicted often in our present state.
 
fhansen said:
Not a conflict, just a desire for the ultimate good, which he still lacked the wisdom to understand he already had, and/or could have even more fully with the right choice.
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There was of course a conflict between desire for the ultimate good and what was prohibited. The wisdom of course assist us to look for ultimate good. What would the point of wisdom otherwise?
 
STT said:
There was of course a conflict between desire for the ultimate good and what was prohibited. The wisdom of course assist us to look for ultimate good. What would the point of wisdom otherwise?
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The prohibition was for their own good, to keep them from losing the ultimate good. The conflict was due to lack of trust in and subsequently commitment/ subjugation to God, which itself involved a lack of wisdom which Adam has presumably gained by now by virtue of his own exile from his Creator. The wisdom Adam gained from his disobedience is the wisdom to never disobey again. If can take time and experience, which the exile into this life provides, to learn that lesson.
 
STT said:
Love, hope, trust, faith, etc. are physical. Human reason is physical. .
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Physical, kind of like the Washington Monument, the Eiffel Tower, the Taj Mahal??? Please tell me where to find them so I can put them under a microscope and dissect them.
 
fhansen said:
The prohibition was for their own good, to keep them from losing the ultimate good. The conflict was due to lack of trust in and subsequently commitment/ subjugation to God, which itself involved a lack of wisdom which Adam has presumably gained by now by virtue of his own exile from his Creator.
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And why this way, being in exile, of obtaining the ultimate good is better than that way, eating the fruit? What is the point of suffering?
 
joeybaggz said:
Physical, kind of like the Washington Monument, the Eiffel Tower, the Taj Mahal??? Please tell me where to find them so I can put them under a microscope and dissect them.
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Reason and brain.
Cerebrum. The cerebrum (supratentorial or front of brain) is composed of the right and left hemispheres. Functions of the cerebrum include: initiation of movement, coordination of movement, temperature, touch, vision, hearing, judgment, reasoning, problem solving, emotions, and learning.
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STT said:
And why this way, being in exile, of obtaining the ultimate good is better than that way, eating the fruit? What is the point of suffering?
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The point is that distance or alienation and autonomy from God produces suffering and death. And apparentry God deemed it worthwhile for us to learn that for ourselves, directly, viscerally.
 
fhansen said:
The point is that distance or alienation from God produces suffering and death. And apparentry God deemed it worthwhile for us to learn it for ourselves, directly, viscerally.
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So you couldn’t provide a reason why we should die after eating the fruit!? Does God punish for no reason? What is that?
 
Father John Hardon, S.J. , Modern Catholic Dictionary :
FEELING.
A conscious state or experience. More particularly in scholastic philosophy an experience of the external or internal senses, namely of sight, smell, touch, hearing, taste, and bodily, or somatic, sensation. Feeling is often simply equated with emotion, but emotion can also be spiritual, whereas feeling is, properly speaking, in the material order.
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Or are you saying,"God is love"and love is my brain, therefore I (or maybe you) are God?
 
joeybaggz said:
So, the brain, particularly the cerebrum, is love. OOOkkkaaaaay !!! Isn’t that a little like saying my colon is where the steak I ate six hours ago is now located, therefore my colon is a steak???
I’m confused.
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Your colon should stay different from what you absorb although they are both matter. That is the result of how forces are shielded by matter itself. For example the chair you already sit on is itself because its atoms shield each other to form a chair.
 
joeybaggz said:
Or are you saying,"God is love"and love is my brain, therefore I (or maybe you) are God?
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We are human and we experience love because our brain create it. I don’t understand what “God is love” means. Love to me is an idea which can be experienced.
 
Father John Hardon, S.J.'s , Modern Catholic Dictionary :
EMOTION.
In spiritual theology, any human tendency or inclination in which the senses participate. Sometimes called concupiscence, it is produced by the awareness of good or evil in the imagination. It is said to be antecedent when the emotion precedes the action of the will and induces the will to consent. This takes place, for example, in the involuntary movements of anger, hatred, or sexual arousal. The emotion is called consequent when it follows the free decision of the will and is either freely consented to or deliberately aroused.
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Antecedent emotion always lessens imputability and at times may remove it entirely, depending on the degree to which it either hinders the powers of reason to think clearly or of the will to consent freely. Consequent emotion never lessens imputability, but generally increases it, especially when a person deliberately fosters certain feelings, say of anger or sex, in order to perform an action more effectively or derive greater pleasure from sinful indulgence. (Etym. Latin emovere, to stir up, agitate.)
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STT said:
So you couldn’t provide a reason why we should die after eating the fruit!? Does God punish for no reason? What is that?
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It’s not punishment. It’s education/formation. God has the power of life over death, so here we live with the threat of death/nonexistence looming continously, whether we live in denial of or are distracted from its reality or not, as some seem to be. We’re lost, not knowing where we came from, if anywhere, what we’re here for, if anything, and where we’re going if anywhere. We need a savior; we need God. And to the extent that we choose this Good for ourselves we “own” our justice, we increase it, with struggle, we become closer and closer to divinity itself and the happiness entailed in that.
 
STT said:
I am afraid I cannot understand how what you stated is a proper response to my argument. Do you agree that we cannot live life without feeling? Reason just give direction to our lives.
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IDK, you’re pitting reason against feelings. And I’m saying that such a question wouldn’t even come up in Eden. Adam initiated or introduced conflict and doubt for man, wondering if he could really find happiness or the highest fulfillment without straying from God’s natural order. We’re now born as strays, looking everywhere, questioning everthing. And that state of unknowing and restiveness itself seems consistent with the question you asked.
 
STT said:
We are human and we experience love because our brain create it. I don’t understand what “God is love” means. Love to me is an idea which can be experienced.
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And love to me is a divine energy, originating with God and available to us through the use of our reason and experience to perceive existence and all around us. Certainly the human brain processes all material and non-material impulses/stimuli. Without the brain and its functions, life ceases. But to say the brain is love, sorry. And to say people with organically compromised brains are less than human slaps the face of our belief that all life is created in the image and likeness of a loving and providential God. This is after all, a Roman Catholic forum.

I think the logical conclusion of your argument is at best a deistic view of humanity. Mine is a theistic view. Like parallel train tracks they will never meet.

Interesting conversation though.
 
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