Female athletes fight back

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You are making it about the prize. As is in fact the topic of this thread .
As for me I wouldn’t mind at all say playing mixed doubles with a transgendered person ,as with any person, because we all are, as long as a physical man takes the place of the man. To be fair for competitors.It isn’t anything mean or against any person.
How fair would it be playing as a team / partner women doubles with Renee and win? How would it have felt? Fair?Honest? Where would you have placed that trophy at home…?
Of course there is always been extraordinary cases like Phelps, or others and that is fine, and a challenge sometimes and an inspiration. Within fair play.
 
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Tennis legend Martina Navratilova is gay herself and politically, she is a liberal. Yet she states on a feminist Web site:
“I also deplore what seems to be a growing tendency among transgender activists to denounce anyone who argues against them and to label them all as ‘transphobes.’ That’s just another form of tyranny. I’m relatively tough and was able to stand up for myself in my Twitter exchange with McKinnon, but I worry that others may be cowed into silence or submission.”
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She has been ostracized by gay activist groups. And here’s an athlete who won 18 Grand Slam singles titles, 31 major women’s doubles titles, and 10 major mixed doubles titles, for a total of 59 major titles.
 
Sure, I know what you are saying. Sports have been characterized historically by male/female. And I agree that there was a lot of reason to do so; it makes sense group reasonably similar groups together. But, to say by sex is the only way…or will continue to be the best way isn’t necessarraly true.

As you mentioned the 800m, I looked up world record times. Both men and women are getting quicker over time, but the women are getting quicker faster.

The elite women athlete are still behind the elite male athletes, but are WAY beyond the average-joe male.
 
Would I be genius to suggest that there should be a coed division? Or am I dumb because I didn’t read the article?
(I know, it’s a lazy response.)
 
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@njlisa Overall, I think you are probably right to think that trans athletes are likely to be at an advantage in most sports. Certainly that is what the plaintiffs in this case allege, and I have no reason to think that they would be making it up. I was only drawing your attention to the fact that there is an ongoing scientific debate about the question and it is more complicated than people seem to imagine. It’s also interesting that the article linked in the OP says, “Yearwood and Miller have said they are still in the process of transitioning but have declined to provide details.” This makes the situation even more complicated to judge, as it means that we do not know what kind of steps toward transitioning these students have taken.

I also hope that you realize that when I was talking about the unpleasant tone of some of the contributions here I certainly did not mean to include yours. In fact, Martina Navratilova herself is extremely courteous in her interactions with members of the transgender community and was genuinely upset when she learned how much what she said had hurt people. She holds the views that she holds, but she treats people with a degree of respect and kindness that is often lacking (and, again, I am certainly not talking about your contributions). She is clearly an intelligent woman who retains an open mind. There is some information here about a documentary she made for the BBC.

https://www.whatsontv.co.uk/news/martina-navratilova-transgender-athletes-bbc-row-blew-up-582281/
CoffeeFanatic said:
More like an uncomfortable truth.
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Seriously, it’s a myth that’s been debunked. Also, please again remember that in this instance we are talking about children.
 
Without intending to get off topic , just exploring possibilities,as to find out how the USTA is dealing with the issue right now, here is what I found. There are some conditions and distinctions.


“It is necessary to ensure, insofar as possible, that transgender athletes are not excluded from the opportunity to participate in sporting competitions.

The overriding sporting objective is and remains the guarantee of fair competition. Restrictions on participation are appropriate to the extent that they are necessary and proportionate to the achievement of this objective.

The USTA guidelines are a living document and will be subject to review in light of any scientific or medical developments. In the spirit of fostering an environment that provides for the opportunity to participate in sporting competitions, THE USTA follows the guidelines established by the IOC Consensus Meeting which are as follows:

A. Transgender​

  1. Those who transition from female to male are eligible to compete in the male category without restriction.
  2. Those who transition from male to female are eligible to compete in the female category under the following conditions:
  • The athlete has declared that her gender identity is female.
    The declaration cannot be changed, for sporting purposes, for a minimum of four years.
  • Hormonal therapy appropriate for the assigned sex has been administered in a verifiable manner and for a sufficient length of time to minimize gender-related advantages in sport competitions.
  1. In the event of non-compliance, the athlete’s eligibility for female competition will be suspended for 12 months.

B. Hyperandrogenism in Female Athletes​

If an athlete is not eligible for female competition, the athlete should be eligible to compete in male competition…

C. League and Recreational Competition​

On the league and recreational side of the equation, the USTA takes the position that we do not require confirmations of any of these items. Above all, we do not want to be an obstacle to recreational participation. We seek to respect all backgrounds, lifestyles and personal choices, and we take it on faith that players who compete under these rules are doing so not to gain a competitive advantage, but to enjoy participating in a manner in which they are comfortable.“
 
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@do_justly_love_mercy

At age 59, I’ve watched girls and women push down the doors of exclusion and violence. Once, the U.S. military academies wouldn’t accept women. Neither would the Ivy League schools. A man couldn’t be charged with raping is wife. There were no domestic violence shelters.

In the 80s, Sandra Day O’Connor became the first woman to serve on the Supreme Court. But in the 1950s, when she was young graduate from Stanford Law School, she was offered a job as a legal secretary.

We couldn’t even vote until about 100 years ago.

We have been fighting, inch by inch, to get a purchase in this world. Girls deserve a chance to shine, on their own. They should not be supplanted as a P.C. concession for a very small minority. We deserve better.
 
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Some of them probably are exposed to pornography, but I really don’t think that is what causes people to undergo gender reassignment treatment. Many of them will have begun to experience gender dysphoria at a very young age, before they are likely to have viewed pornography and before they are likely to have developed sexual fetishes. Furthermore, the kind of pornography that you describe is not what most people are watching. It is a very, very niche kink.

You also have to remember that children presenting with the desire to adopt a different gender will be subjected to thorough psychological evaluation that would identify sexual fetishists at quite an early stage. And then you have to bear in mind the burdens (physical, emotional, and social) imposed upon those who undergo gender transition. It is not a process to be entered into lightly.

The autogynephilia hypothesis can most obviously be refuted by the fact that a vanishingly small number of male-to-female transsexuals would be prepared to state that their reason for transitioning was a sexual fetish. Virtually every transgender person will tell you that their reason for transitioning was because they suffered from gender dysphoria. Of course, proponents of the autogynephilia hypothesis depend upon the assertion that transgender people are inherently unreliable witnesses to their own experiences. The hypothesis can also be refuted by pointing out that it would be entirely natural for people who suffer from gender dysphoria to have sexual fantasies about transitioning to their self-identified gender. Indeed, virtually 100 percent of cisgender women experience sexual fantasies in which they imagine themselves as women.

The autogynephilia hypothesis has never been more than a controversial theory, but it reaches a disproportionately large audience thanks to its popularity on anti-trans internet forums.
 
I’m going to leave this thought and I won’t reply to future posts. Women have spent a long time taking a back seat to men. And finally, we’ve gained some ground. And now, “trans” men want to intrude on an area women fought to gain. Political correctness means throwing women under the bus. It’s a disgrace and an injustice and I will never support it.
 
The main reason the American women, Team USA, should draw equal pay is because they win. Unlike the American men, who usually put forth a pathetic showing every year. The men should actually give some of what they make to the women.
 
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I think you are failing to distinguish between anecdote and data. Reading internet message boards is not a valid alternative to rigorous scientific research. The people who post on those boards are not necessarily representative of all trans people. Some of them may not even be genuine trans people. Also, as someone else pointed out, you clearly have your own agenda, so will be strongly affected by confirmation bias.
 
That was fake.
The ball girl was a stunt woman, working on behalf of an advertising production agency that was filming a Gatorade ad. However, this particular campaign was scrapped before the commercial could make it to the airwaves. The ad was leaked online instead, where it quickly became a viral video sensation.
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I was pointing out the lack of scientifically rigorous methodology behind your conclusions. But since you asked:


https://www.researchgate.net/publication/5552324_Sexuality_of_Male-to-Female_Transsexuals

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/26660017_Autogynephilia_in_Women

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/40806058_A_Further_Assessment_of_Blanchard’s_Typology_of_Homosexual_Versus_Non-Homosexual_or_Autogynephilic_Gender_Dysphoria


https://www.researchgate.net/public..._the_Sexuality_of_Male-to-Female_Transsexuals

Just a few examples for you.
 
There aren’t enough transgendered people in the world to create such an open division in every high-school district
 
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JimR-OCDS said:
There aren’t enough transgendered people in the world to create such an open division in every high-school district
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sorry if I wasn’t clear. There would be a total of 2 divisions: XX, and open (inclusive of XY and all other variations)
 
JimR-OCDS said:
We already have a division which includes XY and everyone else.
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But we should not have an XX division in which some XY’s, who feel they XX’s get to compete. Naturally born women should have their own division.
 
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