Female athletes fight back

[do_justly_love_mercy]

I was talking about the tone of our discourse on this topic. I just don’t understand why the transgender issue seems to bring out the worst in people. We are talking about children who are going through a really tough time in their lives. I think we owe it to them to discuss their predicament with kindness and civility.

 

[KMC]

KMC:

XX chromosome girls compete in the XX chromosome competition

And if the XX takes testosterone as part of “hormonal therapy” trying to be male?

The get bumped up to the open division. Only natural XX chromosome humans in the XX division.

 

[JoeShlabotnik]

When I first say this thread, I was hoping it had to do with women athletes gaining equal pay for soccer or some other professional sports.

 

[flamingpuppet]

Yet many (even Catholics) now deny that there are any issues at all and gender must be seen as a natural “spectrum” with “gender identification” left up to individual fancy.
And everyone else must cowtow.
Just like in The Emperor’s New Clothes.

 

[Gripper]

And everyone else must cowtow.

I applied for a job today online with a large supermarket, when it came to gender there was a whole list to choose from and then there was a question about sexual preference, what on earth has sex got to do with working in a supermarket?

 

[ZMystiCat]

XX chromosome girls compete in the XX chromosome competition

What about women with Swyer syndrome or men with De la Chapelle syndrome?

I just don’t understand why the transgender issue seems to bring out the worst in people.

I once attended a lecture where the speaker put on a very calm, loving face when talking about homosexuality and was well-spoken and appeared to have given the matter at least some serious thought. During the Q&A, when a couple people asked about transgender issues, he transformed into a rather nasty and vague person. His manner of speech didn’t change, but the language became much more biting, sarcastic, less thoughtful, and downright hateful at times. To date, that’s remained my main takeaway from the lecture - something about the topic just brings out the worst in people.

That said, when I was a Protestant, I tried doing a deep delve on the subject, and the deeper I got, the more I began to question a lot of aspects of Protestantism, including some pretty core tenets of it. In fact, it was that study that really got the ball rolling on me becoming Catholic, but it was pretty difficult to accept it.

I think that the same applies to much of this discussion. I’m not going to say that delving deeply into the subject will necessarily cause one to question Catholicism (obviously), but I think for most, it requires confronting some pretty big holes in one’s understanding of the matter. For people who consistently treat this as having an easy answer (at least in terms of determining one’s gender), that’s a pretty uncomfortable position, and when people reject their “obvious” answer, it’s infuriating.

That said, I don’t think those pushing for transgender rights help the matter. They’re often just as nasty, and that probably adds to the frustration.

 

[KMC]

KMC:

XX chromosome girls compete in the XX chromosome competition

What about women with Swyer syndrome or men with De la Chapelle syndrome?

Good question. My proposal is to keep this simple, healthy humans with XX chromosomes are in one division. Everybody else would be in the open division.

Certainly people with abnormalities from birth, like intersex, can be addressed on an exception basis by doctors. Anyone born XY would be in the open division, and would not compete against XX humans.

The goal here is to come up with fair, objective standards.

 

[Gripper]

Do you think trans people will end up having their own grouping at competitions? Wouldn’t they need two groups?

 

[ZMystiCat]

It’s not gender dysphoria for most of them these days. It’s sissy porn influencing them. It’s a fetish.

Do you have anything to back this up, or are you just speculating? Because if it’s the latter, that’s grossly uncharitable.

 

[CoffeeFanatic]

I’ve read a lot on boards where trans (male to female) posters talk about their issues. It’s overwhelmingly a fetish. Those for whom it is true gender dysphoria are way outnumbered by the fetishists these days.

 

[ZMystiCat]

I’ve read a lot on boards

I wouldn’t exactly call what you’ve read on message boards an actual indication of anything beyond you perceiving a higher concentration of people with a fetish in your own time on these message boards. Beyond that, the cause could be everything from timing to confirmation bias, not necessarily that most people are doing it because of a fetish. From my own experience, most are on these forums because they are either suffering from gender dysphoria or aren’t sure. I can recall at most a handful of times where the person wondered if it was just a fetish, and at that, they were simply wondering.

Obviously, I’m assuming that you weren’t confusing transgenderism with drag, but even then, if the only evidence of it being mostly a fetish now is anecdotal experience on message boards, I think it would be prudent to avoid making any such claims. Maybe science will prove you right in a few years, but for now, it’s little more than uncharitable speculation based on highly flimsy evidence.

 

[dochawk]

When I first say this thread, I was hoping it had to do with women athletes gaining equal pay for soccer or some other professional sports.

As I understand the revenues, the women US team should be paid more than the men.

Well, at least in their next contract. The current “disparity” is not from discrimination, but because the men’s union negotiated for almost no salary, with a bonus for every game won, while the women instead negotiated for salary. The better move would be to look for a percentage of revenue . . .

Aside from US soccer, though, I’m aware of no professional sports in which women either draw comparable crowds or play at the same level as men (except perhaps gymnastics, but male and female gymnasts are so different as to make them separate sports).

A few years ago the WNBA demanded the same pay scale as the NBA. The catch, of course, is that I don’t think they’ve ever had a game with the revenue needed to pay NBA minimum salary . . .

I applied for a job today online with a large supermarket, when it came to gender there was a whole list to choose from and then there was a question about sexual preference, what on earth has sex got to do with working in a supermarket?

Maybe in case your love interest is tomatoes, or perhaps dairy?

 

[njlisa]

@do_justly_love_mercy

I was talking about the tone of our discourse on this topic. I just don’t understand why the transgender issue seems to bring out the worst in people. We are talking about children who are going through a really tough time in their lives. I think we owe it to them to discuss their predicament with kindness and civility.

I, for one, have entered this discussion in defense of female athletes.
I realize that chromosomal anomalies exist. Not everyone is XX or XY. I’m also aware of intersex people.

It is my Christian duty to treat all people, including those who identify as trans, with compassion. I cannot begin to understand the struggles they go through. I have no desire to persecute them.

At the same time, as a Christian, it is my duty to speak out for justice. Biological males will always have the advantage of a larger frame, heavier bones, and a stronger heart, even if testosterone suppressants reduce muscle mass.

No matter how hard girls train, they cannot beat a male who trains just as hard. We just don’t have a chance. Girls flourish when they can prove themselves athletically.

Where is the concern for girls? Why are trans rights so much important than female athletes’ rights?

Allowing male-to-female trans people compete against girls is simply not fair.

 

[cloistered]

Is it anunfair advantage to make a 6’ male athlete compete against a 6’5" male athlete? If it fair to the other swimmers that Michael Phelps has a larger lung capacity than them? (i have read that his unique physiologogy gives him huge advantages in swimming).

Physical advantages are just part of sports?

What about female athletes who naturally create more testosterone than most females? ( Caster Semenya for instance.)

 

[do_justly_love_mercy]

It’s not gender dysphoria for most of them these days. It’s sissy porn influencing them. It’s a fetish.

That is an unsubstantiated, offensive, lazy assertion.

 

[njlisa]

@cloistered

Is it anunfair advantage to make a 6’ male athlete compete against a 6’5" male athlete? If it fair to the other swimmers that Michael Phelps has a larger lung capacity than them? (i have read that his unique physiologogy gives him huge advantages in swimming).

Physical advantages are just part of sports?

What about female athletes who naturally create more testosterone than most females? ( Caster Semenya for instance.)

We’re talking about apples and oranges here. Let’s think about boxing, where fighters compete in weight classes.

A flyweight has no chance against a heavyweight.

That being said, within these classes, some athletes have a longer reach, which gives them a natural advantage.

@Gripper

To be fair you could say that about black people and white people as black people sweat at a higher temperature therefore they can reach higher speeds and stamina.

I’m sure you remember they days when African-American athletes could not compete in Major League sports. Again, you’re comparing apples and oranges.

 

[Asinner]

It’s interesting to see that liberals have now forgotten why women’s sports were created as separate from men’s sports in the first place. It will be really funny in ~10-20 years from now when all of the women’s world records will be held by “transwomen” and liberals still won’t get it.

 

[Gripper]

A flyweight has no chance against a heavyweight.

True and it annoys me when they keep putting on and taking off weight so they can fight in two different weights. Not that I watch boxing.

 

[CoffeeFanatic]

More like an uncomfortable truth.

 

[Annie]

it anunfair advantage to make a 6’ male athlete compete against a 6’5" male athlete? If it fair to the other swimmers that Michael Phelps has a larger lung capacity than them? (i have read that his unique physiologogy gives him huge advantages in swimming).

We currently have two separate and distinct categories: men’s and women’s sports. This is a natural categorization based on an easily identified line.

The spectrums under which women and men operate are very different altho there may be some overlap, by which I mean that the group of the fastest women may be able to outrun the slowest men, the strongest women able to lift more weight than the weakest men, etc.

But the averages, medians, and records for each group are very different, with, for example, the men’s world 800 m record at 1:40+ and the women’s at 1:55+ (not set by Caster Semenya)

The people you mention are at the outer limits for their sex, but still they are members of their sex. Michael’s Phelps’ greater lung capacity does not mean he is not a man, Caster Semenya’s testosterone levels do not mean she is not a women.

Transgender girls are not biologically girls and they are violating the boundary that has divided men’s and women’s sports.

A suggestion I read which makes more sense to me is to allow them to compete with girls, but to put their scores in a separate category so that girls are not disadvantaged in girls sports by biological boys.