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puer.dei
Guest
Different people have different definitions of feminism, so you’re not going to get one black-and-white answer.
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Gorgias
Guest
Hmm… perhaps that calling women ‘girls’ isn’t exactly a respectful approach?otjm:
I’m a man and I’m really nurturing. I know a lot of girls who are very ‘disciplinary’, way more than me or a lot of men I know. So … what’s your point?
To be fair, ‘feminism’ isn’t a monolithic movement itself. Multiple waves of feminism, multiple (mutually exclusive) approaches with conflicting goals. Definitely not a cut-and-dried question that admits of a single answer!
Interestingly, the Church in the first few centuries A.D. was itself a radical movement which asserted the rights of women. (In those days, a woman was bound to follow the will of her father, especially regarding marriage. The Church asserted that a woman was not merely a platform for babies, and asserted that virginity (notice – not ‘religious profession’, just virginity) was a legitimate state of life.
In many quarters, the early Church was hated precisely because it asserted that a woman should be allowed to determine the course of her life. Is that not ‘feminism’?
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TheLittleLady
Guest
I’d direct you to read documents like “the Dignity of Women” and to current resources like
http://www.femcatholic.com/
http://www.femcatholic.com/
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Mardymar
Guest
Sorry if I offended you. In the region where I’m from boy’s call girls ‘girls’, girls call boys ‘boys’, boys call boys ‘boys’, and girls call girls ‘girls’. It’s actually meant to be sweet. Like … I know what you are like beneath the things that happened to you. I understand why you’re against it, though.
. . . . I thought my post was pretty clear on asking about what the Catholic churches position on ‘feminism’ was, however they defined it.
. . . .
Just like no other ‘ism’, there isn’t a particular person or group that identifies it. What is united is the goal. Protestants have ‘Sola scriptura’ and the Nicene creed, Catholics have their belief in the church, so do capitalists, socialists and that tribe of Aboriginies who thought that particular place of land was sacred. But they share a common belief, no matter how diversified they were. In feminism, that belief is ‘All people should be allowed to be who they want to be without persecution, regarding they appreciate the dignity of others’. You can argue against the different sects, but I defy you to argue against that core belief.
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blackforest
Well-known member
What article is this? Do you have a link?
Feminism has a lot of definitions. Which one are you working with?
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Gorgias
Guest
I just know that it’s offensive to many, and so I try to avoid it.
Can I be allowed to be a zucchini? Or, perhaps, a 95-year-old resident of medieval France?
Tis_Bearself
Patron
This sounds like fun. Whatever -ism this is, I’d like to join.
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Mardymar
Guest
I guess. But there are a whole lot of people who don’t fit into the stereotypes of who they are expected to be. There has been a lot of talk about isms, but how is promoting the historical norm not an ism? There are billions of people in this world and there is no way a single idea or word can capture them all. The historical normal itself is very different from place to place, and I really doubt that you would agree with them all.
I do agree with a type of feminism I found. The unfortunate thing is the prefix is ‘femin’, which makes people dismiss it without bothering to listen to what they have to say.
Beyond that, if you want to believe you’re a cucumber, who am I or anyone else to stop you. When I was a child I really thought I could fly. I worked at an elementary school and a girl there thought she was a cat. The older version kind of reminds me of Don Quixote. Do you even care that much about how people choose to view themselves or the world? The people who view themselves as cucumbers are a very small percentage and won’t affect how much taxes you have to pay.
I’ll defend feminism all day. But, really, the original question I had has been answered. It might be better to start this in a new thread of you want to talk about this.
I do agree with a type of feminism I found. The unfortunate thing is the prefix is ‘femin’, which makes people dismiss it without bothering to listen to what they have to say.
Beyond that, if you want to believe you’re a cucumber, who am I or anyone else to stop you. When I was a child I really thought I could fly. I worked at an elementary school and a girl there thought she was a cat. The older version kind of reminds me of Don Quixote. Do you even care that much about how people choose to view themselves or the world? The people who view themselves as cucumbers are a very small percentage and won’t affect how much taxes you have to pay.
I’ll defend feminism all day. But, really, the original question I had has been answered. It might be better to start this in a new thread of you want to talk about this.
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Gorgias
Guest
Umm… maybe someone who cares that I don’t exercise a delusion? Wouldn’t that be a better definition of a caring human than one who allows me to sit in a gourd patch and contend that I’m a vegetable?
Is that all that matters? How their delusion affects you personally? That’s a rather harsh – or, at least, jaded – way to live.
Why? Does it affect how much taxes you pay?
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Mardymar
Guest
I’m going to ignore the rest of what you said since I think you and most of the other people who look at this know what I meant.
I’m a half way effeminate guy. I was beat friends with some guys when I was young, then they chose to rather be friends with men who treated people poorly. I care about them and I care about the people that got attacked judge because they resisted becoming a-holes. How is that like a cucumber?
I’m a half way effeminate guy. I was beat friends with some guys when I was young, then they chose to rather be friends with men who treated people poorly. I care about them and I care about the people that got attacked judge because they resisted becoming a-holes. How is that like a cucumber?
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Gorgias
Guest
Well, ok… if you say so. I’d rather respond to what you wrote than attempt to guess what you meant. Call me silly…
Because you, apparently, had something else in mind than “let’s let people be who they think they are.” After all… do you want your acquaintances to continue to attack people? Is that just, or good, or caring?
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Mardymar
Guest
I just made a post with something about ‘prepackaged responses’. I deleted it. What I meant though, was that you were focusing on one sentence that had nothing to do with the greater point I was trying to make.
I’m done with talking about Ism. It’s all just a straw man. I’ve never met someone like the person it seems like you’re referring to. Even if they are somehow in the majority, it’s not what I’m referring to.
I’m done with talking about Ism. It’s all just a straw man. I’ve never met someone like the person it seems like you’re referring to. Even if they are somehow in the majority, it’s not what I’m referring to.
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Mardymar
Guest
What I mean is this:
1: You think that woman should be allowed to be scientists, or CEO’s, or housewives if they want to.
2: in a lot of places in the world, #1 isn’t possible.
3: A lot of women are taught to define their worth based on how they look and how many guys they can get interested.
From the guys point:
1: A lot of guys don’t defend the above points.
2: When they don’t, there are places that bully them
3: Some guys don’t want to be C.E.O’s and just want the family life with their partner.
4: A lot of guys are taught to define their worth based on how many girls they had sex with.
1: You think that woman should be allowed to be scientists, or CEO’s, or housewives if they want to.
2: in a lot of places in the world, #1 isn’t possible.
3: A lot of women are taught to define their worth based on how they look and how many guys they can get interested.
From the guys point:
1: A lot of guys don’t defend the above points.
2: When they don’t, there are places that bully them
3: Some guys don’t want to be C.E.O’s and just want the family life with their partner.
4: A lot of guys are taught to define their worth based on how many girls they had sex with.
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The Catholic Church is not feninist in its structure, and don’t promote feminism in the society.
She is supporting the promotion of the woman.
It is to defend women in their identity, existence, and distinctive roles. Only women are mothers.
We are not misoginists but don’t mask the difference of the sexes.
She is supporting the promotion of the woman.
It is to defend women in their identity, existence, and distinctive roles. Only women are mothers.
We are not misoginists but don’t mask the difference of the sexes.
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Mardymar
Guest
I’m sorry, but I really don’t get what your trying to say. Can you respond without saying feminist or misogynist.
I am sorry that you don’t understand. It is probably because I don’t express myself well in English, and as a non Catholic you are not used to this vocabulary.
The Catholic Church has well dig the topic of humanity and its division between male and women during her history. She has a real anthropology.
The Catholic don’t believe in many essential parts of our modern society, such as abortion, contraception, homosexual relationships promotion of “alernatives families models” and undistinctives roles of women and men, particularly in the family. She also believes that for women to enter in a competition with men for power and domination in the society is not the right way, but Christ want us to follow his path of love.
That’s why I said She is not feminist.
The Church consider that God created men and women equal in dignity. She believe that men and women are differents in essence and in their respective roles by God’s will. Men and women complement each others. That’s why she don’t believe that men and women are the same, that there is no significative distinctions between them.
The equality and complementarism of men and women are fundamental in marriage. The husband is the head of the family and his wife (Saint Paul in the Bible), the wife is his helpmet. The Church give immense value to her role as a mother. She should prioritize her role in family if she works. As wife and husband are equal, we should treat our spouse with love. They are both an important role as parents that the Church want to be protected by civil authorities.
Also She recognized that the capacity of carying a life is a fundamental aspect of feminity that is important independantly of them having children or not.
That’s why I said the Church believe in the promotion of the woman. It is the adequate term that every Historian specialized in religious history will say you. By promoting woman you try to have her condition improoved in society in all areas possible (in work, to support her role in their family, in all situation where her dignity is compromised and more).
If you want that we go far, I will add that in Church, priesthood is only composed by men for theological reasons that the Church feels she cannot change one day. There are vocations that include celibacy, for men and women. She believes that consecrated celibacy and sacramental marriage are complementarian and that we should look at both to understand all aspect of our humanity and role under God.
Documents who have help give Church reflexion included the letter to Catholic bishops on the collaboration of the man and the woman in the Church and in the World, by Cardinal Jospeh Ratzinger, and many writtings of St John-Paul II.
it is more clear for you? What do you want to dig more?
God bless you.
The Catholic Church has well dig the topic of humanity and its division between male and women during her history. She has a real anthropology.
The Catholic don’t believe in many essential parts of our modern society, such as abortion, contraception, homosexual relationships promotion of “alernatives families models” and undistinctives roles of women and men, particularly in the family. She also believes that for women to enter in a competition with men for power and domination in the society is not the right way, but Christ want us to follow his path of love.
That’s why I said She is not feminist.
The Church consider that God created men and women equal in dignity. She believe that men and women are differents in essence and in their respective roles by God’s will. Men and women complement each others. That’s why she don’t believe that men and women are the same, that there is no significative distinctions between them.
The equality and complementarism of men and women are fundamental in marriage. The husband is the head of the family and his wife (Saint Paul in the Bible), the wife is his helpmet. The Church give immense value to her role as a mother. She should prioritize her role in family if she works. As wife and husband are equal, we should treat our spouse with love. They are both an important role as parents that the Church want to be protected by civil authorities.
Also She recognized that the capacity of carying a life is a fundamental aspect of feminity that is important independantly of them having children or not.
That’s why I said the Church believe in the promotion of the woman. It is the adequate term that every Historian specialized in religious history will say you. By promoting woman you try to have her condition improoved in society in all areas possible (in work, to support her role in their family, in all situation where her dignity is compromised and more).
If you want that we go far, I will add that in Church, priesthood is only composed by men for theological reasons that the Church feels she cannot change one day. There are vocations that include celibacy, for men and women. She believes that consecrated celibacy and sacramental marriage are complementarian and that we should look at both to understand all aspect of our humanity and role under God.
Documents who have help give Church reflexion included the letter to Catholic bishops on the collaboration of the man and the woman in the Church and in the World, by Cardinal Jospeh Ratzinger, and many writtings of St John-Paul II.
it is more clear for you? What do you want to dig more?
God bless you.
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Mardymar
Guest
Thank you for replying,
The post was really just about me learning if there was a common philosophy in Catholicism. By common, I mean officially endorsed or something like that. I’m not entirely sure how to express that thought. The thing is, I’m not concerned with terminology either. The word ‘feminism’ has so many connotations, both positive and negative. The only common thread is taking a stance on the idea of how some (probably the minority in a lot of places in the world) force women and men to submit to them because of supposed authority. That’s really what I meant by ‘feminism’ and the only reason I used the word was because there is only a limited amount of space in a forum to describe an idea like that. I would get attacked instead of having me actually learn what I wanted to, which is how the Catholic church feels about this.
You don’t have to reply to me if you don’t want to. I’ve already learned a lot from you. I’m sure there is more I could learn, but I don’t think I could learn any more from the internet without developing preconceived notions in myself.
God bless you, too!
The post was really just about me learning if there was a common philosophy in Catholicism. By common, I mean officially endorsed or something like that. I’m not entirely sure how to express that thought. The thing is, I’m not concerned with terminology either. The word ‘feminism’ has so many connotations, both positive and negative. The only common thread is taking a stance on the idea of how some (probably the minority in a lot of places in the world) force women and men to submit to them because of supposed authority. That’s really what I meant by ‘feminism’ and the only reason I used the word was because there is only a limited amount of space in a forum to describe an idea like that. I would get attacked instead of having me actually learn what I wanted to, which is how the Catholic church feels about this.
You don’t have to reply to me if you don’t want to. I’ve already learned a lot from you. I’m sure there is more I could learn, but I don’t think I could learn any more from the internet without developing preconceived notions in myself.
God bless you, too!
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Lea101
Guest
The idea that moms should work to only provide for the family is not Catholic teaching. Moms are allowed to work for other reasons as well.
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