Feminology: Two "Hypothetical" Situations

[chevalier]

well, in an attempt to de-derail the thread, I agree with your theory. I think she simply didn’t know her own mind, or rather maybe that she didn’t want to make up her mind definitely. She enjoyed the attention, clearly, but realized after a time that she didn’t want anything else out of the relationship. I don’t think she was intentionally deceiving the man, just simply carrying on with something that felt good, until it didn’t feel good anymore. and I bet the man didn’t have anything definite to do with making it not feel good anymore. That’s the nature of feelings… they can be very transient.
So when they met again unexpectedly, the lady remembered how nice the attention was, and made it clear that such attention would again be welcome. And I don’t blame the man for not wanting to get into that again. It sounds like a pretty dead end relationship. It wasn’t growing at all.

Thank you. I see I’m not off base then! It’s a great thing to be able to share because if you’ve got only yourself, you can err without noticing. I guess my theory, which you join in, doesn’t fully explain some of the details (e.g. 1. she wasn’t exactly passive, 2. she claimed it was only friends from the very beginning), but it seems more likely than his getting the whole thing wrong from the beginning, which is kinda still viable.

 

[whatevergirl]

Thank you. I see I’m not off base then! It’s a great thing to be able to share because if you’ve got only yourself, you can err without noticing. I guess my theory, which you join in, doesn’t fully explain some of the details (e.g. 1. she wasn’t exactly passive, 2. she claimed it was only friends from the very beginning), but it seems more likely than his getting the whole thing wrong from the beginning, which is kinda still viable.

How does she act with others, who are male…that might answer a lot of questions.

 

[Consecrated]

Thank you. I see I’m not off base then! It’s a great thing to be able to share because if you’ve got only yourself, you can err without noticing. I guess my theory, which you join in, doesn’t fully explain some of the details (e.g. 1. she wasn’t exactly passive, 2. she claimed it was only friends from the very beginning), but it seems more likely than his getting the whole thing wrong from the beginning, which is kinda still viable.

well, no she wouldn’t be passive. part of enjoying the attention is the give and take of it all… it’s fun to respond to the attention and then get more. no?

 

[chevalier]

After rereading, and now understanding your question…here are the possibilities that I have taken away from this:

*1) She could be a tease…likes the attention, but doesn’t want to commit, or actually call herself something more than a friend. *

2) She is immature, and doesn’t know how to just be honest and open. She has been taught that girls have to play silly, coy guessing games with men in order to keep their interest. Have I ever played like this with men? Yes. But, I was immature back then.

3) The man completely misread the woman’s intentions and actions, and she IS this friendly with many people, not just him.

4) She is interested in him, but I revert back to #2 a bit, because she seems to be playing games.

4.5) (not a full #5 since #4 takes #2 in part) …she does like the guy, she likes to flirt and be playful…but…she doesn’t feel that touching at that stage is appropriate.

It could be those, or a combination thereof. Just my two cents.

Thanks for taking time! Well, as for #4.5, I skipped that part because it didn’t look like reliable data. Just that she wasn’t thrilled and perhaps she really was not interested but was merely being friendly. Their having been young when it happened didn’t help things, I guess.

well, no she wouldn’t be passive. part of enjoying the attention is the give and take of it all… it’s fun to respond to the attention and then get more. no?

Sounds kinda cruel! Though I guess men do that too without realising.

 

[whatevergirl]

Thanks for taking time! Well, as for #4.5, I skipped that part because it didn’t look like reliable data. Just that she wasn’t thrilled and perhaps she really was not interested but was merely being friendly. Their having been young when it happened didn’t help things, I guess.

It would make for an interesting thesis.

 

[Consecrated]

Thanks for taking time! Well, as for #4.5, I skipped that part because it didn’t look like reliable data. Just that she wasn’t thrilled and perhaps she really was not interested but was merely being friendly. Their having been young when it happened didn’t help things, I guess.

Sounds kinda cruel! Though I guess men do that too without realising.

It’s called flirting, usually. I don’t think it’s cruel unless it leads to a dead end, as it did in the OP. It can be fun. I know I had tons of fun doing this with my DH when we were first talking.

 

[chevalier]

It’s called flirting, usually. I don’t think it’s cruel unless it leads to a dead end, as it did in the OP. It can be fun. I know I had tons of fun doing this with my DH when we were first talking.

Yeah, I don’t mean the “casual” kind when both parties know what’s going on and it’s *not *dead-end. For example, I speak a particular dialect of French that involves the phrase “bonjour, mademoiselle” a lot and I remember getting out of trouble at work by chatting up the boss… Joking aside, apart from all of us enjoying some well-meant appreciation and those silly word games simply being a fun exercise for the mind, we kinda know when someone’s being interested rather than just flattering us. In this context returning the attention in order to get more sounds cruel - after all, strangers are far less likely to be just joking or taking it cool than friends are! In the case we’re talking about, I don’t think the girl was being flirty, though she did display some such signs on some occasions after their short episode. Wouldn’t call it leading on in their case, either. IMHO leading on starts when there are some actual promises or real clear statements, not just some flirting here and there.

 

[James_S_Saint]

In the story, the female isn’t showing anything unusual. You seem to prejudicing your analysis with the idea that the “fault” was hers. That is why this thread seemed to go bad as well.

Based on 3 of your responses so far, I suspect the presumption that the other person is wrong rather than yourself is a little too tempting for you. And that would make all kinds of things not go well.

 

[chevalier]

In the story, the female isn’t showing anything unusual. You seem to prejudicing your analysis with the idea that the “fault” was hers. That is why this thread seemed to go bad as well.

Based on 3 of your responses so far, I suspect the presumption that the other person is wrong rather than yourself is a little too tempting for you. And that would make all kinds of things not go well.

Actually, I’m not dealing in fault here. The question was basically, was the woman in the scenarios initially interested in the guy and did she change mind on him later, or was she uninterested from the beginning despite how things went. The guy was irrelevant (along with guesses as to his identity). The threat went downhill because you ignored the request in the OP and offered a strongly worded evaluation of the other person than the one asked about, which went against the facts I gave there (e.g. you ignored the fact that the man was told it was just friends when he told the woman about his feelings, which was rather clear). Thus in my view you were too hasty and yielded to some kind of possibly emotional agenda, fighting against something you had a lasting beef against. I did not appreciate that and I’d be grateful if you didn’t drag it on right now.

 

[James_S_Saint]

You’re still doing it, but it’s your thread. You only benefit from the advice you listen to.

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

this girl who said that she apologized if she sent the wrong signals, but she really didn’t mean it, must have been the Muse (spelling??) who inspired the unknown urban philosopher to exclaim: “Don’t pee on my leg and tell me it’s raining!”

Basically, she DID pee on the leg of her unsuspecting victim… (in a symbolic sense, of course )

 

[joandarc2008]

OK I believe the woman in thread wants a RELATIONSHIP but is waiting for the guy to ask. Because the guy has not asked despite her perpetual flirting and sending signals she wants to make sure she avoids behavior that could make her seem unchaste or invite temptation as she is not even sure she is in a relationship much less looking at a potential spouse. Gosh, men can be confusing and thank God I am married.

Chevalier- I feel bad for those in the single vocations- you have my empathy.

 

[whatevergirl]

OK I believe the woman in thread wants a RELATIONSHIP but is waiting for the guy to ask. Because the guy has not asked despite her perpetual flirting and sending signals she wants to make sure she avoids behavior that could make her seem unchaste or invite temptation as she is not even sure she is in a relationship much less looking at a potential spouse. Gosh, men can be confusing and thank God I am married.

Chevalier- I feel bad for those in the single vocations- you have my empathy.

What an intriguing way to look at these scenarios…I hadn’t given this consideration. You could be right, Joan.

 

[joandarc2008]

What an intriguing way to look at these scenarios…I hadn’t given this consideration. You could be right, Joan.

I think at times my perception can be different as I have found that I am still younger, or to be more PC, less “life-experienced”(which is PC for old) than most of the people on these forums at a whopping 30 years old. Even with everything I have experienced I still desperately want to look at people and see the good. I don’t believe it makes my naive; I believe it makes me loving. I have noticed many of the more “life-experienced” people on here tended to be more harsh towards both the woman and the man in the scenario. I wonder if these two things corelate. Not to derail your thread, Chev.

 

[chevalier]

OK I believe the woman in thread wants a RELATIONSHIP but is waiting for the guy to ask. Because the guy has not asked despite her perpetual flirting and sending signals she wants to make sure she avoids behavior that could make her seem unchaste or invite temptation as she is not even sure she is in a relationship much less looking at a potential spouse. Gosh, men can be confusing and thank God I am married.

Chevalier- I feel bad for those in the single vocations- you have my empathy.

Thanks, but I did say the man made a move on her on that was when she told him they were just friends! At least if you mean #1. In #2, it was already a year or two after she told him they were only friends. He had already given up on her in the meantime and wasn’t interested any more. As for unchaste behaviour etc., he was just trying to hug her which she didn’t have problem with doing with at least one other guy who was just a friend, so I think it can’t really be it. I only mentioned that because it was a dent in the otherwise solid perception that she was interested (not the only one but the rest could be put down the guy being insecure and self-conscious).

I see, though, that you’re inclined to interpret the woman’s behaviour as signs of interest here–which is my primary concern. Maybe I didn’t make it clear enough, but I’m not looking for any answers as to which of them was to blame for what, but rather here’s a man & woman situation I can’t fully read and I figured it could be educational to gather people’s perspectives. I’m sorry for providing rather limited information but I’d like to prevent the two people from being identified, and I also have a limited memory because it’s old stuff (7 years or so). Oh, but I can tell you she said she was surprised that he was interested and she had some vague intuition like one week before their conversation, which was a couple of months into it. This is another potential piece of evidence that he misread her, although I still think he was right about some of the things.

I think at times my perception can be different as I have found that I am still younger, or to be more PC, less “life-experienced”(which is PC for old) than most of the people on these forums at a whopping 30 years old. Even with everything I have experienced I still desperately want to look at people and see the good. I don’t believe it makes my naive; I believe it makes me loving. I have noticed many of the more “life-experienced” people on here tended to be more harsh towards both the woman and the man in the scenario. I wonder if these two things corelate. Not to derail your thread, Chev.

Nah, don’t worry. I don’t mind the speculation, it’s actually helpful in getting the riddle solved. Personally, I agree the man mishandled the situation, but I don’t have a particularly clear answer as to what would have been the proper course of action, given the information I know, and the harshest of the judgements were caused not by drawing on experience but by jumping to conclusions. As for the woman, I don’t think she got nearly as much flak as the man did, although people have implied that she was undecided etc. To her defence, she was young (wasn’t 20 by then, the man was slightly older) and had just been out of a bad romantic situation.

 

[whatevergirl]

I think at times my perception can be different as I have found that I am still younger, or to be more PC, less “life-experienced”(which is PC for old) than most of the people on these forums at a whopping 30 years old. Even with everything I have experienced I still desperately want to look at people and see the good. I don’t believe it makes my naive; I believe it makes me loving. I have noticed many of the more “life-experienced” people on here tended to be more harsh towards both the woman and the man in the scenario. I wonder if these two things corelate. Not to derail your thread, Chev.

*My post to you was meant to be a compliment of sorts, I don’t believe you are naive in your comment.

Oh well. *

 

[joandarc2008]

*My post to you was meant to be a compliment of sorts, I don’t believe you are naive in your comment.

Oh well. *

I didn’t think YOU were - I guess I was just bracing myself for the onslaught - call me virtual-concious.

 

[whatevergirl]

I didn’t think YOU were - I guess I was just bracing myself for the onslaught - call me virtual-concious.

Ah, okay. lol I think that given the information in the original post, there could be many (good) answers!

 

[joandarc2008]

Hey Chev- there are no “good” answers. Men are from Mars. Women are from Venus. We don’t speak the same language. We speak with the right brain, men generally speak with the left. In a marriage men show love through intimacy while women show it through other actions. These are generalizations, but just remember one of the reasons God made us so beatiful is that otherwise we are so hard to deal with.

 

[chevalier]

Ah, okay. lol I think that given the information in the original post, there could be many (good) answers!

Sorry then, looks like I really wasn’t clear enough. Let’s attempt to instill some order in the stories.

Man and woman are young, college freshmen and they go to the same college. She singles him out to ask for direction, ends up spending some 2 hours with him, he gets her phone number, things get a little flashy in public. Their next meeting is already some cinema, they kiss on the cheek right off the bat, like they were old friends or something. They keep meeting every week (status was ambiguous - I’d have to explain words from a foreign language), during which some rather intimate conversations happen, they both seem to be interested in each other and connecting. To him, she seems to be wanting to make a good impression judging by her picking feminine and flattering outfits unlike normal, plus there seems to be some sparks and a lot of laughing. The other signs are that she’s happy with her telling her it wasn’t a problem to phone any time she wished, plus, her spontaneous diminution of his name (it’s one of those names you rarely do that with unless you’re close family and not between two guys anyway), plus his noticing the kiss on the cheek wasn’t a stable feature with her male friends, so he decides he has a chance and makes a move and tells the girl. Then she says it’s always been only friends and nothing romantic from her point of view and apologises to him for possibly having sent mixed signals, no, she isn’t interested, there’s no chemistry, in other words gives him a total cold shower and it looks like he was wrong all the time.

That’s obviously possible because guys tend to do that a lot (i.e. being wrong all the time), but judging that situation from my experience and some theoretical knowledge I have about such things, it seems to me that while it’s possible he was wrong all the time, it’s not very *probable that he was wrong on every single thing, while the girl wasn’t a lying type. *I’m tempted to think he over- and she underestimated things and both being clueless, the conversation devolved into half-worthless babble. However, I can’t find a full-proof explanation for her later telling him her schedule for the day (with a gap) during a short, accidental meeting in #2 because if anything looks like a woman trying to make a man ask her out, that does.

Is this clearer?

Hey Chev- there are no “good” answers. Men are from Mars. Women are from Venus. We don’t speak the same language. We speak with the right brain, men generally speak with the left. In a marriage men show love through intimacy while women show it through other actions. These are generalizations, but just remember one of the reasons God made us so beatiful is that otherwise we are so hard to deal with.

Yes, I know quite a bit about the differences and I actually have a good ratio of reading both men and women but between these two doods in a situation I remember from ages ago, I can’t work it out. Maybe I should quit trying to figure it out but I somehow want to pwn the problem.