fiance and i just had a huge fight and im in need of help!

  • Thread starter Thread starter TarAshly
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As for living together…does your priest know this? Do you know what the Church’s teaching is on this matter? I understand the financial and emotional temptation to do so before marriage, but this is a time of necessary separation for the two of you before becoming one flesh in the sacrament of matrimony. Couples who live together before marriage have a much higher rate of divorce. Please consider rectifying this situation and separating until the two of you are wed in the eyes of God! 🙂 Your main job as a spouse is to enable your husband to get to heaven–endangering his immortal soul by living with him before marriage is a serious situation.

we’re being married by a Deacon and yes he is aware of it and also aware of the situation that caused this to happen, we live as roomates though, hes been sleeping on the couch since we started pre marital counseling.
 
That’s ok–yeah, I tend to use caps too much. You should hear me talk. I’m the opposite of a monotone- instead, my voice goes up or down (and I would normally type “up” and “down” in caps to that emphasis, instead of doing the < > like I just did, which is probably the correct way). I had forgotten that caps is like shouting–honest!

I’ll try to be more careful. I’m glad that you understand, and I think you’ve got pretty good instincts. You’re getting close to the wedding day, and it is stressful.

Maybe you and your fiance this weekend could just take the phone off the hook, cook a big pot of spaghetti or comfort food, light some nice candles, put on beautiful music, and just relax with each other without having to be “on the go” or reacting to something, but just being by yourselves, enjoying being together. Nobody allowed to intrude and no “planning ahead”, but just being together. That kind of together time can be priceless.

Best to you! 🙂
 
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TarAshly:
i am not controlling of him! …
… i got so angry at him for not standing up …
You disapproved of his actions because you wanted him to act the way that you wanted him to act AND you became angry over it
… i wish he would be a LITTLE more aggresive, and stand up for himself a little more …
You want his behavior to change and you want to control how it changes – meaning, you don’t want him to become more passive but more aggressive. You want to control HOW he changes.
I don’t wish to argue this point. All I am trying to say is that are certain things about him that attracted you to him. By wanting to change fundamental qualities about him, you risk changing him in ways that you may not expect or want.
 
TA (my daughter’s initials, so I will speak to you as I would to her, but nicer I hope) close this bank account and open a new joint account and insist to your fiance that he keep his dad out of it. This of course is for expenses related to your wedding, new house and your new life together after marriage. You of course each have your own personal accounts to pay for current expenses, since of course you are each living on your own. If d.f. is not independent of his family he is not ready to get married. If you are not financially independent, either are you. Get all this resolved before you get married or parental interference will be a problem all your life. Either you are adults, or you are not.
 
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puzzleannie:
close this bank account and open a new joint account and insist to your fiance that he keep his dad out of it.
great suggestion. there is absolutely no reason for your fiance to give his dad your account information!!! change the password or just close the account.
 
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bear06:
I. Let me tell you, after the wedding it’ll probably only get worse. Almost eveyone’s said it - you can’t change other people. You have to figure out whether or not you can accept it. If not, bail now, not later or at least postpone until all parties think they can live with some sort of decision.
Tar–let me first say I wish you all the happiness and joy in the world; you both deserve it, and that is what marriage has brought my husband and I.

That said: whether a marriage brings you such delight and fulfillment is no accident. For both of us, it was the result of deciding never to settle for less than we wanted in a marriage partner. We both went through extremely painful breakups with other people prior to our meeting–we thought we had each met “the one,” and by the grace of God, and a huge dose of common sense, realized that we were indeed “settling” for character traits, in-laws and relationships that were less than satisfactory. When we met each other, we realized how close we had each come to marrying the wrong person.

You have one month left to your wedding, a vow that will shape the rest of your life for better or worse. Are you sure, clear through, without one doubt, that you want to marry this man? Some of your other threads seem to demonstrate not just some doubt, but a lot. A lot of confusion, worry, even a bit of panic. Maybe you could take some time-- a day in the park, or by yourself in church, to turn over these doubts and really give them your attention. Are they jitters or your common sense coming to your help? Don’t be afraid to examine them directly. There is NO SCANDAL in postponing a wedding, or even cancelling it–in five years nobody will care.

Friends of my husband and I recently broke off their engagement, just one month before the wedding, because everything was "“happening so fast.” They continue to date, and are taking things slower. Both of them are “high society” and they had huge wedding plans, but they gracefully recalled the invitations and surely saved themselves much heartache. We are so proud of them.

Don’t ever settle, Tar! When the match is right, marriage is pure bliss.
 
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StephanieC:
this was the thought that was germinating in my mind as I read through your questions & the forum’s responses to you…George2 beat me to the punch,
I’d like to add my :twocents: on this subject.

I was also concerned to hear of a living together situation before marriage. “But heck, we’re in the 21st century,” you might declare. I finished HS in the 70’s, when all the wisdom of the ages was chucked out the window as garbage and none of the rules were seen as valid.

Let me tell you, wisdom, especially that from God Himself, is Wisdom for our greater happiness. We should follow it closely. If you want a happy marriage, approach it as the sacred union it is. A degree of detachment is needed if you are going to discern with your head and heart what God desires for your greater happiness.

Sometimes, when we want a marriage NOW, we get something better by waiting for God’s plan. Perhaps it is exactly this relationship, but with the proper seasoning brought through the delay of time. Perhaps it’s a completely different person. But if you are already setting up house, you aren’t considering the realities of the situation with any degree of detachment. At this point in your relationship, this is what you need to allow you to properly discern your call to marriage.

I want to also echo the words of StephanieC asking you to consider the importance of a Single Head and a Single Heart in a marriage. It is important that the both of you enter your marriage understanding this, despite what our currently culture says. I grew up in a strongly matriarchal family, my grandmother ran a corporation (mind you, I’m not young, so she was doing this when “ladies” didn’t even drive, it was considered unseemly). She raised 7 children (with the help of a maid, whom my youngest aunt considers her true mother) and at one point she even went so far as to fire her husband (my grandfather). My mother was also a strong person in her own right, even though she didn’t work until I was 16 yrs old.

My father spent time assisting me with my math when I was young, such that I grew up loving the subject (lot’s of O’Chem, Engineering Calculus and Physics in college, yum). I charged out into the professional world and quickly climbed the career ladder (I won’t get into my “accomplishments” for fear that it would be an occation for Pride). I married a wonderful man who not only accepted my career, but who expected me to remain wedded to the climb. My realization that raising our daughter is a job of greater import than anything the corporate world could offer has been a bone of contention between us.

You’ve been wise enough to know that you have a potential problem and to bring it to a Catholic Forum for advice. Please consider all that the Church teaches with regards to the marital relationship. I wish I had been faithful to the Church when we were married. Many of the challenges I am currently facing should not be problems and could have either been easily resolved during our engagement or I would have realized that he was unwilling to ever address them.

Please, step back from this relationship, give it space while you do not have the blessing of marriage. Then consider if you want to accept him the way he is, accepting him as the God given authority in your life. If so, YOU may grow in wonderful ways. If not, you may choose to move on, but I don’t recommend entering the relationship with the intent of taking over (believe me, I’ve seen over the course of generations that God’s plan truly is best, despite what our culture claims).

If you are willing to take the challenging step of moving out before what you hope to be an upcoming wedding, I strongly believe you will find that which is better, either in this relationship or in another, better match.

God Bless you as you ponder your choices,

CARose
 
Unlike basically everyone else who has posted on this thread, I do believe that people change.
Of course people can change. The point is that you can’t count on them to change. If you a can’t live with a trait or that trait will lead you into sin then you shouldn’t get married or at least postpone for future counseling. You get one shot at marriage (barring death of a spouse) and annoying traits aren’t usually grounds for annullment.

Also, change is not always for the good. This is one of the reasons why couples who live together have such a high divorce rate. They think they’ve done it and they know how it will be. The problem is that people don’t remain the same especially after marriage and kids and they can’t handle it.
 
I don’t think you should be married if you are co-habiting. Priests and Deacons are under no canonical obligation to do so, you just found a liberal one to marry you.

My advice is that you should have separate abodes, even if this takes time and you should take more time for discernment even if that means more marrriage prep courses.

You can’t see the forest if you are standing right next to a tree. You need to step back and realize that your sanctity is more important than your relationship and your marriage.

You seem to eager to get this over and done with and my impression of you is a controlling, emotional trainwreck.

I also resent you telling the world over the internet that you and another Catholic found a Deacon willing to marry you. He is under no obligation to do so and can tell you that he will not marry you because co-habitation is a sin.

It is hard to think objectively about whether you want to spend the rest of your life with someone if you are living with them.

You talk so much of finances but so little of living as Christ wants us to.

Unless you are pregnant, I think you need to grow up a little bit, call off the wedding and stop shacking up.
 
Priests and Deacons are under no canonical obligation to do so/QUOTE
Sadly this isn’t correct. From what my priest friends have told me they cannot canonically deny the sacrament for shacking up. I guess the presumption is that they are not physically active. They can delay however…
Tars deacon did tell them to separate. Which they are trying to do sexually. Many of us have suggested they separate totally but she thinks they can’t financially do this. Although if Dad is so accomodating… :rolleyes:
 
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bear06:
Priests and Deacons are under no canonical obligation to do so
Your friends are wrong. Neither priests nor deacons have to marry a co-habiting couple.

Co-habiting couples can be married in the Church - by a priest or deacon willing to do so.

No one is automatically guaranteed reception of this or any other sacrament.

You are making light of a very serious situation. This woman is acting like a self-absorbed teenager - it seems that the Church and its laws mean little or nothing to her.

She cares more for her fiance than for her eternal soul.

She cares more about getting married than her sanctity.

When I said she was a trainwreck I meant it. Who goes on the internet and asks complete strangers about what to do in their relationship.

The answer is good old fashioned country wisdom: move out and try over. If it comes to be then get married some day - when he can support you financially. Lots of couples wait years in chaste continence waiting for the financial opportunity to get married.

Two roommates sharing a rent cheque is not the ideal and I thank those old school priests who just refuse to marry those couples.

Those priests who think it pastorally wise are perpetuating a scandal and increasing the numbers of couples who ignore the church’s teaching on cohabitation and near occassions of sin.

She mocks my church, but doubly so by going on a public forum like this and saying it is no big deal.

Ask your priest if he can deny performing a marriage on these grounds.

He can and he should.
 
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TarAshly:
how do i bring this to his attention without hurting his feelings and get my point across, we have two different temper levels, mine is hard headed southern firecracker volitle, and his is calm and maintained. i CANT STAND THIS! please help!
Sweetie, I know how you feel. I also have that type of temper. Remember that he will never change. I suggest that you pray that the Lord guide, stregthen you, and give you wisdom to deal with it and accept him for who is is.

Don’t try to change a man. Because you will be left frustrated, and upset

🙂
 
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TarAshly:
how do i bring this to his attention without hurting his feelings and get my point across, we have two different temper levels, mine is hard headed southern firecracker volitle, and his is calm and maintained. i CANT STAND THIS! please help!
I realize that your wedding is only a month off, but if you are having this much difficulty with the difference in tempermants, perhaps you should postpone it. If things are this bad before you are married, it will probably only get worse afterward.

I’m sorry to be so blunt. However, a broken engagement is better than a divorce.
 
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TarAshly:
hes the man of the house, i guarantee that. when we do fight i dont say hateful things to him, i cry and thats when he backs down. i dont cry to make him stop, i cry because im upset and he cant stand to see me cry, in no way shape or form do i control him.
Dear TarAshly,

You are contradicting yourself. To a passive or even passive-aggressive gentleman this is the most effective way of controlling him there is. You are not controlling him with an iron fist, you are controlling him with manipulation, whether you are trying to or not.

He is much like I used to be, and to a great degree the way I still am. He was probably raised around people who generally respected him and his opinions, and never had a reason to develop an ability to deal with strong-willed people who don’t care about him. It sounds like he has his own sense of what is right or wrong, but does not wish to impose his will on authority figures or especially you. Hurting you is the last thing in the world he wants to do, but he wants his opinions to be taken seriously and he doesn’t want to have to defend his Christ-like nature to you.

My guess is this will sound like B.S. to you. Personally I have always been passive-aggressive, and I grew up with culture, music, mathematics, while my wife’s brothers were really into football and other sports. The sooner you can accept him as he is and not “wish” he was a little more this or a little more that, the sooner you can help each other improve and not defend yourselves against each other. You are used to aggressive men, and if you measure him by that standard he will always have a sense of inferiority around you.

Alan
 
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George2:
Your friends are wrong. Neither priests nor deacons have to marry a co-habiting couple.

Co-habiting couples can be married in the Church - by a priest or deacon willing to do so.

No one is automatically guaranteed reception of this or any other sacrament.

You are making light of a very serious situation. This woman is acting like a self-absorbed teenager - it seems that the Church and its laws mean little or nothing to her.

She cares more for her fiance than for her eternal soul.

She cares more about getting married than her sanctity.

When I said she was a trainwreck I meant it. Who goes on the internet and asks complete strangers about what to do in their relationship.

The answer is good old fashioned country wisdom: move out and try over. If it comes to be then get married some day - when he can support you financially. Lots of couples wait years in chaste continence waiting for the financial opportunity to get married.

Two roommates sharing a rent cheque is not the ideal and I thank those old school priests who just refuse to marry those couples.

Those priests who think it pastorally wise are perpetuating a scandal and increasing the numbers of couples who ignore the church’s teaching on cohabitation and near occassions of sin.

She mocks my church, but doubly so by going on a public forum like this and saying it is no big deal.

Ask your priest if he can deny performing a marriage on these grounds.

He can and he should.
How about you ask the AAA forums if a priest can deny the sacrament of marriage to cohabitating couple. I, personally, wish they’d answer in the affirmative but I’m pretty confident they won’t. Would you like to quote the law to back you up?
 
I spoke to a monsignor at the chancery when I was trying to convince my friend not to cohabit.

He told me that the rules had been changed, couples living together could be married by the Church and that this a pastoral, not a canonical rule.

However, he noted that he does not marry couples who are cohabiting and that neither he or any other priest has too.

It is not a matter of canon law. It is a pastoral concern.

It is that priest or deacon’s call whether to administer the sacrament to that couple or not. Indeed there are many reasons why they could be denied it.

My criticism is not at the priest or deacon who will marry them. My criticism is that this woman is an emotional trainwreck - going on the internet to strangers for help one month before her wedding.

Also, you can’t deny she is committing the grave sin of scandal by telling Catholics and non-Catholics here that she is cohabiting.

If she is being allowed to be married despite her cohabitation, she should not be advertising that fact, even anonymously or in cyberspace as it harms the sanctity of marriage.

I wish she had an older or more conservative priest who would simply tell her to grow up and come back to him when she is done playing house.

In any case she is going to learn eventually. If she can’t sacrifice this little thing now, her marriage is going to be a disaster or at best an ongoing series of crises.

It is unmitigated selfishness. True love waits.

She is acting like a spoiled princess. This is a textbook example of KerryCafeteria Catholicism. She wants her cake and wants to eat it too. The rules don’t apply to her.

Cry me a river…
 
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George2:
I don’t think you should be married if you are co-habiting. Priests and Deacons are under no canonical obligation to do so, you just found a liberal one to marry you.

You seem to eager to get this over and done with and my impression of you is a controlling, emotional trainwreck.

I also resent you telling the world over the internet that you and another Catholic found a Deacon willing to marry you. He is under no obligation to do so and can tell you that he will not marry you because co-habitation is a sin.
George, while I agree with the fact that TarAshly is in need of some serious help with some issues I think you are going about it in the wrong way.

First off, if she has found a deacon who is liberal in your opinion, I think your problem should be with the deacon and not TarAshly. Why should she take your advice over that of the deacon?

Calling her a “controlling emotional trainwreck” is not helping the situation. It is comparable to calling a homosexual a “deviant perverted sicko”. How likely would that person be to take any advice from you after that personal attack? You are leaving her no option other than to defend herself and her relationship. Ever hear that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar?

If you resent the fact that she is telling people that she has found a deacon willing to marry them in spite of their cohabitation, again I feel your resentment should be directed at the deacon/Church.

Why should she not be able to tell us of her personal experiences with the Catholic Church?

I think everyone here should try to think of how they would want people to help them with their own struggles before trying to help someone else. I doubt any of you react very well to someone flat out telling you that you are wrong.

I realize that TarAshly is very hardheaded and stubborn and seems unwilling to take any advice. But she is still here…doesn’t that tell you something? She is still reading every word that is written…make them count.

Malia
 
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George2:
Who goes on the internet and asks complete strangers about what to do in their relationship. ?]
Who goes on the Internet and tells complete strangers what to do in their relationship? Aparently you do.

In regards to your comment about TarAshly commiting the sin of scandal, I think the same can be said of you. You are claim to be Catholic and yet you make sweeping judgements against a woman, whom you don’t know, based on the very limited information she has posted. Of course, I don’t think either one of you is commiting the sin of scandal here (part of these forums is discussing sin with sinners!)but it seems that if she is, you are too.

Speak the truth in patient and kind love.
  • JP
 
Hi,
The fact that you have different temperments is likely a blessing. However, he should stand up for you and support you to show that he respects you in front of others.

Living together before you get married is not a good idea and you should reconsider. It creates a setting for bad habits to develop that do not get resolved properly. It may seem like a good idea for financial reasons and the like, but, you start setting yourselves up to NOT deal with real compatibility problems because you are tied to each other financially or otherwise. Hence, the real problems don’t get resolved because you feel this obligation to the other to not stir things up. Know what I am saying?
 
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