Fiance doesn't want to join the church

[LB_in_TX]

I will not comment in detail on your situation, because my similar personal experience may taint my opinion, but I will say atleast she was honest and finally told you before hand.

Have you spoken to your priest?

I will pray for your situation.

God Bless you!

 

[kbachler]

Worship is a moral obligation.

True, but irrelevant to the point. My statement was not about what is, but rather about WHY it is what it is. Moral obligations are moral obligations for a reason.

Worship is honoring God, which is a moral obligation for the created being. You are right that God is lacking in nothing. But moral duties do not exist to fulfill the needs of man.

Moral obligations do exist to fulfill what man needs. They exist to help him grow. Yes, God is complete, and His completeness also implies the fact that He has supreme will, since He exhibits consistent character.

Such a morality would be humanism, not the Christian concept of morals. Morality, which flows from God’s essence, does require us to honor Him.

God is moral by His will, and His choice, not only by nature. It if were otherwise, He would not be God.

The fact that He provides moral laws for us to aspire to and grow to is not humanism, it is the essence of the Christian concept of morals, because, unlike God, we do not have supreme will, and hence we will falter at times and thus require forgiveness.

Worship of God is a moral obligation because it is a signpost for growth, not because it is simply a “law of nature.”

In Matthew 4:10 Jesus says ‘for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve’. The purpose of Worship is to fulfill our duty.

No. The purpose of worship is to grow us as individuals, which is accomplished via fulfilling our duty.

Duty and discipline are tools of growth - not ends to themselves. If used as ends to themselves, then you’ve made everything meaningless.

God did not bless Abraham because he was dutiful to God. He blessed him because Abraham had so grown through his trials that he now understood a higher form of love and faith. Read Genesis 22. This is not a story just about duty. This is a story of “Do you love me enough to do for me what I will do for you?”

It is true that in fulfilling our duty we will be rightly oriented toward God and from that will come blessings (not blessing from a worldly point of view but from a Heavenly). But the blessings are not the goal.

I agree that the blessings are not the goal. The goal is growth of the individual. The goal is growth of the will to be more like the example God has set for us, to be a better being than we are today.

The point is not duty, the point is not discipline. The point is to be able to use duty and discipline when you need to in order to be a better person.

Duty and discipline are not the goal.

Are you saying heart is the key to meaning? And are you saying that heart is feelings we experience?

I am saying it is A key. God has said to love him with all our heart, all our strength, all our spirit and all our mind. So understanding, emotion, will - these are all important. Mindless duty is only a tool, not an ends. (We can all name cases of mindless duty - but I don’t want to name it and fall into Godwin’s Law.)

God loved David in large part because he was a man after God’s own heart. Was David perfect? No, but he was motivated, his life had meaning. He was more than just dutiful.

If so might I suggest a Dr. Peter Kreeft article I just happened to read the other day. In it he points out:

The Importance of Free Choice: The Role of Our Will

If heart is what you mean then I think you might be importing modern romantic notions of heart into the meaning of heart as used in Sacred Scripture.

I think you are misunderstanding what I said. Heart is important but is only a piece - but it is a piece. I’m not bringing in a romantic notion.

Its a long time ago now, but a thesis I wrote on free will was about will (ours) and its nature in relation to God (His). Glancing at the concept written about Kreeft, it is in line with I wrote. Do not get confused - heart is not a synonym for will. While they each describe self, they describe varying aspects of self - otherwise the commandment would not need to be so explicit.

 

[kbwall]

It’s been awhile, and I still need help, so update time

The church she belongs to is Assemblies of God. They teach that one must have a very personal relationship with Jesus, to the point where some of them claim to have conversations with God. She personally doesn’t like recited prayer, and is even “creeped out” by being in crowds where everybody recites the exact same prayer at the same time. She believes in very freeform worship.

Even if I got her to get past her prejudices, which will be difficult, there’s still all those other issues. I’ve heard some of the Eastern Rite churches can be more “Protestant friendly” and less emphasis on the legalistic aspects of God. Eastern Rite covers many churches. Given what I have said, and what anybody can look up about Assemblies of God, can anybody point me in the direction of one such church? Any help at all would be much appreciated.

She’s shown willingness to leave her church, since I’m not comfortable there. Which is a lot for her, given how wll she knows that community and she’s been with these people since childhood, which says to me that I mean a lot to her. I can’t just throw that away so easily. She doesn’t like the Roman Catholic church, and she feels it’s selfish of me to stay my denomination and make her change. So maybe Eastern Rite is the answer, since it’s neutral ground for both of us, and I get to stay in Christ’s church and won’t burn in Hell for rejecting Him.

 

[Corki]

It’s been awhile, and I still need help, so update time

The church she belongs to is Assemblies of God. They teach that one must have a very personal relationship with Jesus, to the point where some of them claim to have conversations with God. She personally doesn’t like recited prayer, and is even “creeped out” by being in crowds where everybody recites the exact same prayer at the same time. She believes in very freeform worship.

Even if I got her to get past her prejudices, which will be difficult, there’s still all those other issues. I’ve heard some of the Eastern Rite churches can be more “Protestant friendly” and less emphasis on the legalistic aspects of God. Eastern Rite covers many churches. Given what I have said, and what anybody can look up about Assemblies of God, can anybody point me in the direction of one such church? Any help at all would be much appreciated.

She’s shown willingness to leave her church, since I’m not comfortable there. Which is a lot for her, given how wll she knows that community and she’s been with these people since childhood, which says to me that I mean a lot to her. I can’t just throw that away so easily. She doesn’t like the Roman Catholic church, and she feels it’s selfish of me to stay my denomination and make her change. So maybe Eastern Rite is the answer, since it’s neutral ground for both of us, and I get to stay in Christ’s church and won’t burn in Hell for rejecting Him.

The Eastern Rite Churches tend to be less flexible in their liturgies than Latin Rite Churches but that’s a generalization. The Eastern Rite Churches are not as ever-present in the US as Latin Rite Churches are so your first step should probably be to look into what choices are even in your area and then visit.

She doesn’t like the Roman Catholic church, and she feels it’s selfish of me to stay my denomination and make her change.

Really, neither of you should be “making” the other change. That’s bound to create resentment down the road, especially if the families on both sides are involved in these Churches. It’s quite possible to have a happy marriage with both spouses pursuing different worship paths. Not that there aren’t challenges. But at least that way, each of you has a base. To drop both faith traditions and try to find a new one that neither of you have a history with doesn’t sound like a good way to start out.

 

[mountee]

Every time I see one of these threads I feel compelled to respond based on my personal experience and the experiences of so many other that I have talked to. So I want you to read the next part very slowly: If you are committed to your Catholic faith, and your fiance has no interest in becoming Catholic, then my advice is to NOT GET MARRIED unless or until that situation changes! As you grow in faith and years your faith will become more important to you, the center of your life, and may very well become a huge source of contention in your marraige. It’s your life and you are free to do with it as you will, but I would strongly urge you to read what I have just written over again and ask the Holy Spirit if this is what you truly ought to be doing.

I will be married 40 years to a non- Catholic. I couldn’t agree more with this well stated reply. May you let the Holy Spirit lead and guide you forward with this situation. God bess you.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Every time I see one of these threads I feel compelled to respond based on my personal experience and the experiences of so many other that I have talked to. So I want you to read the next part very slowly: If you are committed to your Catholic faith, and your fiance has no interest in becoming Catholic, then my advice is to NOT GET MARRIED unless or until that situation changes! As you grow in faith and years your faith will become more important to you, the center of your life, and may very well become a huge source of contention in your marraige. It’s your life and you are free to do with it as you will, but I would strongly urge you to read what I have just written over again and ask the Holy Spirit if this is what you truly ought to be doing.

This. Especially after the kids start arriving. Both people will likely want them raised the way they were brought up and there can be a terrible conflict that destroys any possibility of faith in the children.

Please, OP, take this seriously and DO NOT MARRY at this point in time. I am not going to say “wait until the issues are dealt with” because I do not believe that this problem will go away.

 

[TrueLight]

It’s been awhile, and I still need help, so update time

The church she belongs to is Assemblies of God. They teach that one must have a very personal relationship with Jesus, to the point where some of them claim to have conversations with God. She personally doesn’t like recited prayer, and is even “creeped out” by being in crowds where everybody recites the exact same prayer at the same time. She believes in very freeform worship.

Even if I got her to get past her prejudices, which will be difficult, there’s still all those other issues. I’ve heard some of the Eastern Rite churches can be more “Protestant friendly” and less emphasis on the legalistic aspects of God. Eastern Rite covers many churches. Given what I have said, and what anybody can look up about Assemblies of God, can anybody point me in the direction of one such church? Any help at all would be much appreciated.

She’s shown willingness to leave her church, since I’m not comfortable there. Which is a lot for her, given how wll she knows that community and she’s been with these people since childhood, which says to me that I mean a lot to her. I can’t just throw that away so easily. She doesn’t like the Roman Catholic church, and she feels it’s selfish of me to stay my denomination and make her change. So maybe Eastern Rite is the answer, since it’s neutral ground for both of us, and I get to stay in Christ’s church and won’t burn in Hell for rejecting Him.

I am familiar with the “Assemblies of God”. I don’t see how an Eastern Rite church will be more acceptable to her, but you can always try.

Here is a link to a Divine Liturgy.

You can always send her some links to Youtube videos like this one, but I seriously doubt that will be better for someone coming from a Pentecostal denomination.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

It’s been awhile, and I still need help, so update time

The church she belongs to is Assemblies of God. They teach that one must have a very personal relationship with Jesus, to the point where some of them claim to have conversations with God. She personally doesn’t like recited prayer, and is even “creeped out” by being in crowds where everybody recites the exact same prayer at the same time. She believes in very freeform worship.

Even if I got her to get past her prejudices, which will be difficult, there’s still all those other issues. I’ve heard some of the Eastern Rite churches can be more “Protestant friendly” and less emphasis on the legalistic aspects of God. Eastern Rite covers many churches. Given what I have said, and what anybody can look up about Assemblies of God, can anybody point me in the direction of one such church? Any help at all would be much appreciated.

She’s shown willingness to leave her church, since I’m not comfortable there. Which is a lot for her, given how wll she knows that community and she’s been with these people since childhood, which says to me that I mean a lot to her. I can’t just throw that away so easily. She doesn’t like the Roman Catholic church, and she feels it’s selfish of me to stay my denomination and make her change. So maybe Eastern Rite is the answer, since it’s neutral ground for both of us, and I get to stay in Christ’s church and won’t burn in Hell for rejecting Him.

OK, so then, neither of you will have any connection to the church that you belong to. Does that really solve the problem? How much accommodation should a couple need to do in order to marry? If she doesn’t like the Roman Catholic Church, she’s sure not going to like the Eastern Rite either. We are not about “free-form worship” in any way, shape, or form.

She shouldn’t be so willing to leave her church for YOU and not because she is called to become a Catholic. I can foresee many difficult times ahead for you if there are rocky moments. The default argument is always going to come back to, “Yes, but I left EVERYTHING for you…my church!” etc. etc.

Have you spoken to your priest yet?

 

[Iheartcoffee]

You have to think about whether or not your fiancee will raise your children the way you would want them raised if something happened to you. Marriages between people of different denominations CAN work, but it will be harder.

 

[kbwall]

Really, neither of you should be “making” the other change. That’s bound to create resentment down the road, especially if the families on both sides are involved in these Churches.

My family isn’t Catholic, as I’m a fairly recent convert (which makes me sad, not even a full year f being Catholic, and I’m already stumbling). Her family is the same denomination though, and are heavily involved in the church, and have strong prejudices against Catholicism, so yeah, her converting would pretty much turn her family against me.

Have you spoken to your priest yet?

I’m gonna try to contact him tomorrow. I’ve been putting it off partly because of how difficult a talk I know it will be, and I’m also socially awkward.

Honestly, the whole situation is frustrating. We have such a good relationship except for one hiccup. It’s frustrating that the Pentacostal church (or at least so many members of said denomination) just brainwashes people against Catholicism for no apparent reason. All these baseless prejudices and misconceptions that don’t even make sense. On the surface, it’s really good, but in this aspect, how can such holy, good, God loving people spread such blatant lies about Christ’s Church?

I might be able to try a Charismatic Renewal Church, which might help her argument against the rigidness of Catholicism, but she’ll still have prejudices that I don’t know how to educate her out of. It is difficult to fill a glass that is already full.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

It is difficult to fill a glass that is already full.

I think you have your answer here. Have you tried to figure out what God’s will is for you? I mean, seriously discerned His will with complete honesty. Because it sounds like all your efforts are aimed towards accomodating your fiance and seeking a compromise.

 

[router123]

maybe you shouldn’t force her for anything like that. just let her live in the way she wish to.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

My family isn’t Catholic, as I’m a fairly recent convert (which makes me sad,** not even a full year of being Catholic,** and I’m already stumbling). Her family is the same denomination though, and are heavily involved in the church, and have strong prejudices against Catholicism, so yeah, her converting would pretty much turn her family against me.

I’m gonna try to contact him tomorrow. I’ve been putting it off partly because of how difficult a talk I know it will be, and I’m also socially awkward.

Honestly, the whole situation is frustrating. We have such a good relationship except for one hiccup. It’s frustrating that the Pentacostal church (or at least so many members of said denomination) just brainwashes people against Catholicism for no apparent reason. All these baseless prejudices and misconceptions that don’t even make sense. On the surface, it’s really good, but in this aspect, how can such holy, good, God loving people spread such blatant lies about Christ’s Church?

I might be able to try a Charismatic Renewal Church, which might help her argument against the rigidness of Catholicism, but she’ll still have prejudices that I don’t know how to educate her out of. It is difficult to fill a glass that is already full.

Please, please, PLEASE do not let your emotion for this young lady draw you away from your faith!!! I might have a different viewpoint if she were a lukewarm Lutheran or something, but AOG with her whole family the same?? And you, a new Catholic with no help from your own family? No, no, no…Without a genuine miracle, it’s probably not going to end up well. There’s unequally yoked, and there’s not being yoked together AT ALL…When my husband and I met, dated, shacked up and eventually got married, neither of us considered ourselves to be Catholic. Fortunately, we are both “cradle” Catholics, because during my first pregnancy, I reverted. I say, “fortunately,” because at least we have the same framework and history, and there were no obstacles to our childrens’ baptisms, etc. He goes to Mass with us even though internally, he does not believe some of what he says in the presence of God. Our sons have no idea that their dad does not share our faith. Of course he has not been able to train them up as faithful Catholic men, because he isn’t one. I pray for their future fathers-in-law. They don’t know what they’ve missed to this point, but once they have a Catholic role model, they will, and questions may be asked.

Anyway, all that is to say that even WITH the same baptized faith, I have spent the last 21 years alone in my faith within my marriage. No one to pray for me, no one to pray WITH me, no one to share a prayer life or participate in parish activities. We do Mass, and pray before meals, and that is all. He has said at times that he feels a “wall” between us. Well, yes. I can’t share the deepest part of myself and my life with him. It’s a big cross that I haven’t borne well at times.

I would not advise you to change any aspect of your faith life just so you and this young lady can stay together. I would advise her the same way.