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agnes_therese
Guest
NO. Your fiance should be dealing with her. It would be a very bad idea for you to send any such letter.
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Qwestions
Guest
Hi, Trackee------I understand how fit-to-be-tied that you feel over your frustration at the manipulation of your fiance by both his parents and his ex-girlfriend, but HE needs to be the one taking the action, not you. Be supportive, encourage him, go with him to the appointments with the attorney, to court, etc., but only as his fiance, best friend, and cheerleader; you can’t do it for him, and, certainly, not without him.
Most of the suggestions have been helpful, but some of them may only increase and escalate your fiance’s problems. The ONLY attorney you need to see, on your own initiative, is your personal attorney (not your fiance’s) devoted to outline YOUR responsibilities as a step-parent, according to the laws governing where you live, so that you get no nasty surprises down the road, and so that you protect your income and any inheritance from claims by the ex for your step-daughter.
Your fiance, either alone or in your company, needs to see an attorney, as previously outlined in other posts, but not with his parents. They don’t even need to know about that until after the fact, but he should see that their visitation is included in the final agreement. He must establish paternity, of course, but the attorney will see to that. Money spent on an excellent attorney is money and heartache saved over time, and well worth any scrimping required to pay his bill. Helping your fiance find one is something that you CAN do that will help and not hinder…
If the ex gives him grief down the road, after every issue has been decided legally through the court, only your fiance (with you along for moral support), not your fiance and his mother, should go to the attorney for resolution.
Under no circumstances should you contact the ex-girlfriend! Doing so, as others have explained, will create problems that you don’t want. I can understand your need to let her know that you’re very definitely in the picture now, but that’s the wrong move. The attorney can advise you on that, too. Let him handle it all. The ex, hopefully, won’t get even a whiff of an idea that your fiance is going through legal channels until the attorney presents her with papers.
If she should phone you before the court-ordered visitation and support have been hammered out, as soon as you realize that it is she on the line, say that you would love to talk to her and become acquainted, but that you must leave and are on your way out the door, but that you are looking forward to meeting her, and compliment her on something about her daughter. (You want this woman neutral toward you, or even your friend, but never your enemy.) No matter what, do not get dragged into conversation with her before those papers are finalized. Then leave the house immediately after the phone call, so you won’t be lying.
If you open your door to find her standing there, be cordial and gracious, but explain that you need to hurry and get ready because you’re running late. If she tries to press you into conversation, apologize and tell her that you’re sorry, but you just can’t take the time to talk since you’re in such a rush. Then, as quickly as possible, leave the house. Your fiance’s attorney can tell her, through her attorney, that it’s inappropriate to meet until after the court’s judgment if she is aware of what’s going on. If not, your fiance can say what his attorney tells him to say to her.
It is extremely important that you have no contact with her until some point after the paperwork has been finalized, Keep praying about all of this. Best wishes to all of you.
Most of the suggestions have been helpful, but some of them may only increase and escalate your fiance’s problems. The ONLY attorney you need to see, on your own initiative, is your personal attorney (not your fiance’s) devoted to outline YOUR responsibilities as a step-parent, according to the laws governing where you live, so that you get no nasty surprises down the road, and so that you protect your income and any inheritance from claims by the ex for your step-daughter.
Your fiance, either alone or in your company, needs to see an attorney, as previously outlined in other posts, but not with his parents. They don’t even need to know about that until after the fact, but he should see that their visitation is included in the final agreement. He must establish paternity, of course, but the attorney will see to that. Money spent on an excellent attorney is money and heartache saved over time, and well worth any scrimping required to pay his bill. Helping your fiance find one is something that you CAN do that will help and not hinder…
If the ex gives him grief down the road, after every issue has been decided legally through the court, only your fiance (with you along for moral support), not your fiance and his mother, should go to the attorney for resolution.
Under no circumstances should you contact the ex-girlfriend! Doing so, as others have explained, will create problems that you don’t want. I can understand your need to let her know that you’re very definitely in the picture now, but that’s the wrong move. The attorney can advise you on that, too. Let him handle it all. The ex, hopefully, won’t get even a whiff of an idea that your fiance is going through legal channels until the attorney presents her with papers.
If she should phone you before the court-ordered visitation and support have been hammered out, as soon as you realize that it is she on the line, say that you would love to talk to her and become acquainted, but that you must leave and are on your way out the door, but that you are looking forward to meeting her, and compliment her on something about her daughter. (You want this woman neutral toward you, or even your friend, but never your enemy.) No matter what, do not get dragged into conversation with her before those papers are finalized. Then leave the house immediately after the phone call, so you won’t be lying.
If you open your door to find her standing there, be cordial and gracious, but explain that you need to hurry and get ready because you’re running late. If she tries to press you into conversation, apologize and tell her that you’re sorry, but you just can’t take the time to talk since you’re in such a rush. Then, as quickly as possible, leave the house. Your fiance’s attorney can tell her, through her attorney, that it’s inappropriate to meet until after the court’s judgment if she is aware of what’s going on. If not, your fiance can say what his attorney tells him to say to her.
It is extremely important that you have no contact with her until some point after the paperwork has been finalized, Keep praying about all of this. Best wishes to all of you.
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lerapt78
Guest
Ah, the plot does ideed thicken! In light of the additional details you gave, then I would agree with the other poster who said that your fiance should get a paternity test if there’s a chance he is not the father. Maybe that should be step number one, even before consulting with a lawyer.
I would add that he should do it very soon as well. The laws vary from state to state, but I’ve heard of men being ordered to pay child support even for children that are not their own. This may only be if they were in marriages, or it may be even if they only acknowledge paternity unoficially (I’m not sure if this is a men’s rights exagerration or if it’s true). If it’s true though, and if your fiance has been paying child support, it could be considered informal acknowledgement of paternity for which he may have to legally assume responsibilities in the future.
It’s very kind of you to be doing some background work on this, but your fiance needs to move on this ASAP.
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SamH
Guest
Not an exagerration.Ah, the plot does ideed thicken! In light of the additional details you gave, then I would agree with the other poster who said that your fiance should get a paternity test if there’s a chance he is not the father. Maybe that should be step number one, even before consulting with a lawyer.
I would add that he should do it very soon as well. The laws vary from state to state, but I’ve heard of men being ordered to pay child support even for children that are not their own. This may only be if they were in marriages, or it may be even if they only acknowledge paternity unoficially (I’m not sure if this is a men’s rights exagerration or if it’s true). If it’s true though, and if your fiance has been paying child support, it could be considered informal acknowledgement of paternity for which he may have to legally assume responsibilities in the future.
It’s very kind of you to be doing some background work on this, but your fiance needs to move on this ASAP.
abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=97079&page=1
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luvpinsanity
Guest
I have skimmed most of the responses, but not all, so forgive me if there is any duplicate advice here.
I had a child almost four years ago, and did not marry my son’s father. I maintain a ‘close’ relationship with my son’s father - we speak on the phone almost daily, and my son talks to his dad, too. My situation has a unique challenge - my son’s father lives about six hours away so regular visitation is not possible. My family lives in the same area as my son’s father, and when I go to visit them (normally 1-2x a year), normally my son’s father (and my husband and I) and both our kids, all go out together for some activities - we have gone hiking in the park, to the mall, to Chuckee Cheese, to the movies, etc. Sometimes, my ex-boyfriend and I even go out alone (with my parents watching the kids) so we can discuss custody matters, or other arrangements.
How does my husband handle this? Like a man. He acknowledges that a relationship between my son’s father and I is in the best interest of our son/his step-son. I would not go so far as to say that he is "super friendly’ with my ex- and personally- I know he has a lot of raw feelings towards him - but he always acts cordially, and respects him. When my ex-boyfriend visits (and due to the distance, we always offer him a place to stay), my husband will engage him in talking, or various activities when he is able to.
I firmly believe that this course of action has helped things - and especially as our son gets older… I had a friend who had a daughter a long time before I had my son, and the split was terrible - it racked his daughter’s life and made everything more difficult… a parents job is to provide a secure foundation for childhood - the discordance of being “cold” and “detached” (or worse - arguing or openly negative!) can have serious consequences on a child… when dealing with a child it should NEVER be “US” vs “THEM” - a child should know only LOVE.
First, you need to acknowledge, as a third party to everything relating to your fiance’s daughter you do **not **have a say in what goes on regarding custody - your fiance needs to handle this. IF he does NOT handle this, then I would seriously think and pray about that.
As far as advice, your fiance needs to document everything. Document days that the mother didn’t drop the child off, when the mother changed arrangements, document, document, document. An informal agreement has NO legal standing for custody, and is non-enforceable.
First, is paternity established? Does your fiance’s name appear on his daughter’s birth certificate?
Second, what sort of custody rights is HE looking for? (I would not even get into grandparents rights at this time – that is their problem, not the OP or her fiance)
He has a couple options, depending on the state he lives in.
LEGAL CUSTODY - The right and obligation to make decisions about the child’s upbringing, for example: education, religion, and medical care. LEGAL custody can be SOLE (only one parent retains these rights) or JOINT (where both parents retain these rights)… Is he involved in the decision-making process?
PHYSICAL CUSTODY - who has the right to visit/live with the child. This one varies a lot by state, but again, it can either be SOLE (ONLY one parent- usually not applicable unless one parent is deemed unfit), JOINT (50/50 living situation), or PRIMARY with visitation - this is the one that sounds most like fiance’s situation currently. It is important to make sure that VISITATION is outlined in the legal agreement in order for it to be enforceable.
For example, with my son, I have shared legal custody and sole physical custody with visitation at my discretion.
In most states, paternity, custody, and child support are three separate issues and can be handled together, but they do not have to be. For example, we have legally established both paternity and custody, but we have not established child support through the courts. My son’s father pays through voluntary support.
I recommend that you do not have any contact with the mother of your fiance’s child, except through your fiance. No letters should be sent to her.
Personally, you want to make sure you stand back and let the main players figure this stuff out - otherwise, yes, it will get ugly. It’s not your business. As far as the grandparents go, again, that is something that your fiance will have to work out WITH HIS PARENTS after he moves out. Right now, since he is living with his parents, there’s really nothing to be done. I would tread very softly here, and be kind, because for as long as this little girl has been in their lives, his parents have been giving her a place to stay so he can spend time with his daughter - I would definitely consider that. My parents, on the other hand, gave me no such reprieve.
I would be interested to know your fiance’s thoughts. Good luck.
I had a child almost four years ago, and did not marry my son’s father. I maintain a ‘close’ relationship with my son’s father - we speak on the phone almost daily, and my son talks to his dad, too. My situation has a unique challenge - my son’s father lives about six hours away so regular visitation is not possible. My family lives in the same area as my son’s father, and when I go to visit them (normally 1-2x a year), normally my son’s father (and my husband and I) and both our kids, all go out together for some activities - we have gone hiking in the park, to the mall, to Chuckee Cheese, to the movies, etc. Sometimes, my ex-boyfriend and I even go out alone (with my parents watching the kids) so we can discuss custody matters, or other arrangements.
How does my husband handle this? Like a man. He acknowledges that a relationship between my son’s father and I is in the best interest of our son/his step-son. I would not go so far as to say that he is "super friendly’ with my ex- and personally- I know he has a lot of raw feelings towards him - but he always acts cordially, and respects him. When my ex-boyfriend visits (and due to the distance, we always offer him a place to stay), my husband will engage him in talking, or various activities when he is able to.
I firmly believe that this course of action has helped things - and especially as our son gets older… I had a friend who had a daughter a long time before I had my son, and the split was terrible - it racked his daughter’s life and made everything more difficult… a parents job is to provide a secure foundation for childhood - the discordance of being “cold” and “detached” (or worse - arguing or openly negative!) can have serious consequences on a child… when dealing with a child it should NEVER be “US” vs “THEM” - a child should know only LOVE.
First, you need to acknowledge, as a third party to everything relating to your fiance’s daughter you do **not **have a say in what goes on regarding custody - your fiance needs to handle this. IF he does NOT handle this, then I would seriously think and pray about that.
As far as advice, your fiance needs to document everything. Document days that the mother didn’t drop the child off, when the mother changed arrangements, document, document, document. An informal agreement has NO legal standing for custody, and is non-enforceable.
First, is paternity established? Does your fiance’s name appear on his daughter’s birth certificate?
Second, what sort of custody rights is HE looking for? (I would not even get into grandparents rights at this time – that is their problem, not the OP or her fiance)
He has a couple options, depending on the state he lives in.
LEGAL CUSTODY - The right and obligation to make decisions about the child’s upbringing, for example: education, religion, and medical care. LEGAL custody can be SOLE (only one parent retains these rights) or JOINT (where both parents retain these rights)… Is he involved in the decision-making process?
PHYSICAL CUSTODY - who has the right to visit/live with the child. This one varies a lot by state, but again, it can either be SOLE (ONLY one parent- usually not applicable unless one parent is deemed unfit), JOINT (50/50 living situation), or PRIMARY with visitation - this is the one that sounds most like fiance’s situation currently. It is important to make sure that VISITATION is outlined in the legal agreement in order for it to be enforceable.
For example, with my son, I have shared legal custody and sole physical custody with visitation at my discretion.
In most states, paternity, custody, and child support are three separate issues and can be handled together, but they do not have to be. For example, we have legally established both paternity and custody, but we have not established child support through the courts. My son’s father pays through voluntary support.
I recommend that you do not have any contact with the mother of your fiance’s child, except through your fiance. No letters should be sent to her.
Personally, you want to make sure you stand back and let the main players figure this stuff out - otherwise, yes, it will get ugly. It’s not your business. As far as the grandparents go, again, that is something that your fiance will have to work out WITH HIS PARENTS after he moves out. Right now, since he is living with his parents, there’s really nothing to be done. I would tread very softly here, and be kind, because for as long as this little girl has been in their lives, his parents have been giving her a place to stay so he can spend time with his daughter - I would definitely consider that. My parents, on the other hand, gave me no such reprieve.
I would be interested to know your fiance’s thoughts. Good luck.
E
EasterJoy
Guest
Since she’s slated to marry one of the players, it is not that it is not her business so much as that it is totally out of her control…and that she would be wise to treat it as such. The main danger in front of her is to inadvertantly make things worse, while no one in the situation is going to blame her for letting the real players–that is, the parents of the child–work this out.
I think she’d be wise to encourage her fiance to talk to an attorney and she would be wise to sit in on those meetings, so that she’ll know whether the fiance is neglecting or taking the attorney’s advice and so that she can do any documentation that is in her family’s best interest to have on hand. The difference that could make for all her fiance’s children is enormous.
If he seems not to want to deal with this, that’s a sign that maybe he is not quite ready to take on Family #2. The OP is not stupid, but most mistakes in this arena aren’t made out of stupidity. They’re made out of a very natural desire for things to be other than what they are. She does need to be willing to hold herself to the hard choices that are going to be best for her family in the long run, for everyone’s welfare.
No writing the ex, though, not unless (God forbid) her fiance or family ever poses a threat to the child that the rest of the family is concealing from the child’s mother. Unless moral duty compels communication that bypasses her fiance, she would do well to strictly avoid it, at least for now. (Years down the road, that could relax a lot…let’s hope everything does eventually relax to the extent that she and the child’s mother will communicate casually, and without a second thought. This will happen after Stepmom is the one who reminds and helps the child make a birthday surprise for Mom while on her weekend with Dad. That would be the best case.)
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lerapt78
Guest
Incredible.
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atassina
Guest
Why are you planning to marry a man who is not acting as a father should? He is responsible for his daughter hand her mother. They need to reconcile if possible. You can’t simply be willing to let his daughter come over. She is a child and has a right to her father.
What will you do if he dumps you and your child, picks up with another woman and says, “Well you already saw how I treated the mother of my daughter.”
What will you do if he dumps you and your child, picks up with another woman and says, “Well you already saw how I treated the mother of my daughter.”
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otjm
Guest
You may have tipped your hand that you have had a bad experience. While that may have some value in any advice given, it helps to preface the advice with that note if it is true.
And you have a very strange and intriguing view of marriage as a “selfish desire” and an assumption that a healthy marriage to someone other than the birth mother is not in the best interest of the child.
The statement that step-siblings are not in the best interest of the daughter is a biased and unsubstantiated statement, again possbily coming from your background. In your circumstance that may be true; but one circumstance does not make for a universal statement.
A non-custodial parent may be lucky to have fourteen hundredths of the hours in any given 2 week period to share time with his child. It is strange that you want him to stop the rest of his life - that is, no spouse in a loving sacramental relationship - for a decision we can all agree has the external markings of a mortal sin; and one may resonably assume that the father may have availed himself of the sacrament of Reconcilation - at which point the Church and Christ has forgiven him. And you feel he cannot have that forgiveness, even though Christ feels he can? That he must bear up under a life of celibacy even though the Church would in no way require that?
Again, you may have had personal experience of such an issue, and if so, it would appear that you have some bitterness about it. But that is not reason to condemn someone else.
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aicirt
Guest
A four yr. old knows. She just can’t verbalize.
The mother is volatile and manipulative. This isn’t going to change. The idea that she’ll find someone with a four yr. old is remote. She’s hurting and she’ll dump on you.
How many kids do you want and can your fiance support you and your children. You need to sit down and do a budget.
Yes, like the Real Julianne I do know the bad side of blending a family. I only know of one who succeeded because she waited until her kids were out of high school before marrying. Besides differences in rearing kids, there were also financial aspects to consider too none of which she was aware of until she thought of remarrying.
Another is a young man who fathered a child in high school. He’s an excellent father but because of the ex not contributing, he will remain single until his daughter is 18 and then consider dating in another six years.
The mother is volatile and manipulative. This isn’t going to change. The idea that she’ll find someone with a four yr. old is remote. She’s hurting and she’ll dump on you.
How many kids do you want and can your fiance support you and your children. You need to sit down and do a budget.
Yes, like the Real Julianne I do know the bad side of blending a family. I only know of one who succeeded because she waited until her kids were out of high school before marrying. Besides differences in rearing kids, there were also financial aspects to consider too none of which she was aware of until she thought of remarrying.
Another is a young man who fathered a child in high school. He’s an excellent father but because of the ex not contributing, he will remain single until his daughter is 18 and then consider dating in another six years.
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