Fight Poverty! Raise taxes?

[Domer90]

Preparing taxes as a second job really opened my eyes. And I totally agree. It got to the point it was making me ill to think how many people relied on that refund…and the plans they had for it.

 

[EndTimes]

US National Debt is 23+ Trillion and rapidly rising.

The Trend?

Each Year

• The Gov’t has more and more oodles of money to play with.
• The bulk of the Pyramid of People - have been going further and further into Debt.

 

[PetraG]

IF Taxes on Corps and the Ultra Weathy are too high, they won’t Sell, Hire, Purchase

Oh, please. The people running corporations and managing their private wealth are going to keep going after money. The taxes will be unjustly high long before they are so high that they discourage the grasping from even trying to grasp! And will they all move to some country that lets them oppress the poor? That isn’t going to happen. This remains a very good country for the opportunistic to get rich. The case can be made that it is better than it has ever been, or at least as good as 1928, which was another heydey for the ultra-rich of the United States. Don’t let anybody tell you the rich in this country are groaning under the unfair expectations being placed on them and the limits on their ability to stack up more and more. It just isn’t true.

The truth is, though, that money flows when the pooir have it far more than when the wealthy accumulate most of it. The poor can’t sock money into a mattress or stack it up in a vault. They need it to live, so be very sure they spend it.

 

[PetraG]

Preparing taxes as a second job really opened my eyes. And I totally agree. It got to the point it was making me ill to think how many people relied on that refund…and the plans they had for it.

The idea that a tax return is “free money” rather than “our money, withheld and now returned” is such a widespread and destructive myth.

Of all the kinds of education that are in a sorry state these days, financial education only trails catechesis. I had a very good personal finance class in high school, and I continue to be thankful for it.

 

[Sarcelle]

My mother was a personal finance planner and following her advice saved me from a lot of needless problems.

Even when unemployed I didn’t have to worry about being broke because of my rainy day savings.

 

[EndTimes]

The truth is, though, that money flows when the pooir have it far more than when the wealthy accumulate most of it. The poor can’t sock money into a mattress or stack it up in a vault. They need it to live, so be very sure they spend it.

Oh please … Money flows far better when the so-called lower and middle income brackets have excess spending dough which in turn flows back to them in the form of more Income ergo dough

They used to. But Today? No more… Those classes are struggling.
And those with more have tightened their belts as well - which hurts the economy

The Wealthy? Yeah. They spend … and If more taxed? Spend less.

School Debt? Remember when it barely existed and jobs were plentiful
and everyone had some level of medical and retirement income
sufficient to still hold onto one’s home?

The FED? The Gov’t? Humongous Defense Budgets?

)

 

[PetraG]

US National Debt is 23+ Trillion and rapidly rising.

The Trend?

Each Year

• The Gov’t has more and more oodles of money to play with.
• The bulk of the Pyramid of People - have been going further and further into Debt.

No, if we’re deficit spending it means the government is lowering taxes but continuing to spend as if it didn’t lower taxes.

I don’t know about any of you, but I remember this campaign boasting:
“We’re not a rich country. We’re a debtor nation…We’ve got to get rid of the $19 trillion in debt …I think I could do it fairly quickly…I would say over a period of eight years…” Donald Trump, April 2016

Yet look how the national debt spiked after Trump took office:

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This is not the kind of national debt we see when we’re not in a recession or a depression.
The red line, for those of you not in a position to expand and read fine print, is the projection if certain aspects of the current tax agreement are not repealed.
(This is the annual deficit, not the overall debt load of the nation.)

 

[EndTimes]

This is not the kind of national debt we see when we’re not in a recession or a depression…

For those who’ve not sufficient extra capital to earn a nice chunk via the Market?

Yes … We’re in a serious Recession>

We could make a bet…

I say, ‘things’ are not going to get better no matter who becomes POTUS

The money being spent for ongoing Offense and Defense - is the deal…

)

 

[Rau]

The Wealthy? Yeah. They spend … and If more taxed? Spend less.

No. The very wealthy are net savers. Increase taxes and they just save a little less.

 

[PetraG]

For those who’ve not sufficient extra capital to earn a nice chunk via the Market?

Yes … We’re in a serious Recession>

We could make a bet…

I say, ‘things’ are not going to get better no matter who becomes POTUS

The money being spent for ongoing Offense and Defense - is the deal…

The stock market is going up and the federal deficit is going up. Not good.
Does he ever talk about retiring the debt any more? Nope. Just talks about the stock market.

Yes, I think our defense spending is unsustainable.

No. The very wealthy are net savers. Increase taxes and they just save a little less.

Yes. People who do business at the very high end of consumers are far more insulated from economic ups and downs than people whose business depends on disrectionary spending by the middle class.

(Middle class? What middle class? That’s part of our problem.)

Oh please … Money flows far better when the so-called lower and middle income brackets have excess spending dough which in turn flows back to them in the form of more Income ergo dough

That is what I meant: When the less affluent people get money, they spend a greater proportion of it.

 

[EndTimes]

No. The very wealthy are net savers. Increase taxes and they just save a little less.

Care to support that with some source info ?

At any rate, what they do $pend… trickles down towards - and assists - Mr. Little Pockets

 

[PetraG]

All in all, it isn’t just the level of taxes that matters. It is how it is spent. It is the societal atmosphere in which it is spent, too. It isn’t a simple money in → money out matter.

Take student loans. Are those “good debt”? Not if students aren’t counseled to guage the debt they take on in light of the career they are choosing. If students pile up great amounts of “good” student debt to go to the “college of their dreams” and get a job in the “field they love” that won’t ever let them pay it off, that is terrible for the economy!! It is terrible for the political climate! What our society did not need was a bunch of people who took out a loan and worked for an “investment” that is actually going to be a financial albatross around their necks. That is a recipe for the high number of very bitter recent college graduates that we now have.

 

[EndTimes]

The stock market is going up and the federal deficit is going up. Not good.

Does he ever talk about retiring the debt any more? Nope. Just talks about the stock market.

Yes, I think our defense spending is unsustainable.

IMHO.
The Economics Problem does not necessary directly connect with any POTUS or PoliParty

The FED and International Central Banking play a major role.

IF one follows GeoPolitical/Military/Industrial Economics …
One sees an almost Limitless supply of money flowing from the coffers of the USofA

)

 

[PetraG]

IMHO.
The Economics Problem does not necessary directly connect with any POTUS or PoliParty

The FED and International Central Banking play a major role.

IF one follows GeoPolitical/Military/Industrial Economics …
One sees an almost Limitless supply of money flowing from the coffers of the USofA

Congress has a big hand in the economy in the long term, but a divided Congress looking to score sound-bite level wins and a President looking to score on what the stock market is doing this week is not going to be making choices for the nation’s long-term economic health.

Sorry, but we have a very complex world that is interconnected as never before and yet we want our politics to be simple-minded and reducible to largely imaginary black-and-white partisan world views.

It is as if we chose to have parents who are both bad with money in opposite ways and fight over it all the time. Awful.

My concern is that the people at the bottom of the wage ladder and the people trying to make a way of life the farthest from the financial centers and the people who just do the necessary stuff like growing the food and moving the goods and building and cleaning things and supplying the natural resources are going to get the short end of the stick. I think they’re the ones whose needs and whose importance are being forgotten. (We can already see this in how the addiction and suicide rates in rural areas and in the financially-strapped demographics are on the rise…)

 

[Domer90]

I used to tell my mom that some people spend it faster than they can print it at the US Mint.

 

[EndTimes]

My concern is that the people at the bottom of the wage ladder and the people trying to make a way of life the farthest from the financial centers and the people who just do the necessary stuff like growing the food and moving the goods and building and cleaning things and supplying the natural resources are going to get the short end of the stick. I think they’re the ones whose needs and whose importance are being forgotten. (We can already see this in how the addiction and suicide rates in rural areas and in the financially-strapped demographics are on the rise…)

Here we agree… My concern as well… We may not agree as to the cause. But we agree.

)_

 

[EndTimes]

I used to tell my mom that some people spend it faster than they can print it at the US Mint.

When the USofA needs another Trillion? It’s given to them by the FED…

For a % fee… = Federal Debt

Crazy, eh?

_

 

[EndTimes]

Not really. It’s how every modern monetary policy is structured.

Levels aside.
No nation generates money out of thin air in the manner as this nation does.

_

 

[JoeFreedom]

You know, I’ve always despised when others want to punish the good along with the bad. I remember in grade school, this other kid was messing around and got the whole class punished because he did something stupid. That memory is seared into my brain. I was working on my assignment quietly, doing nothing wrong, and because he messed up, I had to suffer for his bad mistake.

Just because some rich people are greedy, uncharitable or acquired their means through inheritance, unscrupulousity, or some other unethical method does not mean we should punish the good along with the “chaff”.

 

[PetraG]

Levels aside.
No nation generates money out of thin air in the manner as this nation does.

It is a bit surprising, but taken as a percentage of their GDP, Japan’s national debt is over twice ours.
(Other nations that have spent more even than we do, like Italy and Greece and Lebanon and Sudan, didn’t surprise me so much.)

We are definitely in the top 20, though. We were at 106% two years ago, and like the ponderous chain that Ebeneezer Scrooge had labored upon after his partner Marley died, we have only grown it since:
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Finland: 59%
The Netherlands: 53%
Sweden: 39%

Lower defense spending allows for substantial social spending. The US spends more of its GDP on defense than any other nation in NATO. The nations of the Middle East and North Africa out-spend us, but I think the reasons are obvious.