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EndTimes
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Quantitatively we’re Numero Uno - in a world whereby Size Counts a Lot… .
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EndTimes
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So… This affects us how?Well, according to Warren Buffett, it doesn’t do any such thing:
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PetraG
Guest
Um, this doesn’t really agree with the prophets or the New Testament. Some are greedy and wealth is a very real temptation. When faced with the choice between walking with God and holding on to their wealth, it is very difficult not to hold on. This is a difficulty that people typically have:Those with great wealth are not greedy. They are exceptionally blessed and lucky.
Jesus, looking at him, loved him and said to him, “You are lacking in one thing. Go, sell what you have, and give to the poor and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me.” At that statement his face fell, and he went away sad, for he had many possessions.
Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God!” The disciples were amazed at his words. So Jesus again said to them in reply, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for one who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
They were exceedingly astonished and said among themselves, “Then who can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “For human beings it is impossible, but not for God. All things are possible for God.”
Mark 10:21-27
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PetraG
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Trickle down doesn’t work. It didn’t back when and it doesn’t now and people eventually remember that.So… This affects us how?
And Here’s How It All Happened
November 26, 1932
St. Petersburg Times
by Will Rogers
Well all I know is just what I read in the papers or what I see as I prowl hither and thither. With the election over everybody seems to have settled down to steady argument.
The old hidebound Republicans still think the world is just on the verge of coming to an end, and you can kinder see their angle at that for they have been running things all these years…
Saying that all the big vote was just against hard times is not all so. They were voting against not being advised that all those foreign loans was not too solid . They were voting because they had never been told or warned to the contrary that every big consolidation might not be just the best investment . You know the people kinder look on our government to tell ‘em and kinder advise ‘em. Many an old bird really got sore at Coolidge, but could only take it out on Hoover. Big business sure got big, but it got big by selling its stocks and not by selling its products. No scheme was halted by the government as long as somebody would buy the stock. It could have been a plan to deepen the Atlantic Ocean and it would have had the endorsement of the proper department in Washington, and the stocks would’ve gone on the market.
This election was lost four and six years ago, not this year. They didn’t start thinking of the old common fellow till just as they started out on the election tour. The money was all appropriated for the top in the hopes that it would trickle down to the needy. Mr. Hoover was an engineer. He knew that water trickles down. Put it uphill and let it go and it will reach the driest little spot. But he didn’t know that money trickled up. Give it to the people at the bottom and the people at the top will have it before night, anyhow. But it will at least have passed through the poor fellows hands. They saved the big banks, but the little ones went up the flue.
No sir, the little fellow felt that he never had a chance, and he didn’t till Nov. 3, and did he grab it? The whole idea of government relief for the last few years has been to loan somebody more money, so they can go further in debt. It ain’t much relief to just transfer your debts from one party to another, adding a little more in the bargain. No, I believe the “boys” from all they had and hadn’t done had this coming to ’em.
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JimG
Guest
It seems that one of the most basic economic lessons that students should learn is this: Don’t spend more than you take in. And save a part of your income every paycheck.
But the government sets a pretty bad example in this regard.
But the government sets a pretty bad example in this regard.
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Elizabeth3
Guest
How does the Catholic social principle of subsidiarity apply in this issue of looking to the government to raise taxes on the wealthy and redistribute to the poor?
"The principle of subsidiarity is opposed to certain forms of centralization, bureaucratization, and welfare assistance and to the unjustified and excessive presence of the State in public mechanisms. “By intervening directly and depriving society of its responsibility, the Social Assistance State leads to a loss of human energies and an inordinate increase of public agencies, which are dominated more by bureaucratic ways of thinking than by concern for serving their clients, and which are accompanied by an enormous increase in spending”[400]. An absent or insufficient recognition of private initiative - in economic matters also - and the failure to recognize its public function, contribute to the undermining of the principle of subsidiarity, as monopolies do as well. " Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church: Chapter Four-Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace
"The principle of subsidiarity is opposed to certain forms of centralization, bureaucratization, and welfare assistance and to the unjustified and excessive presence of the State in public mechanisms. “By intervening directly and depriving society of its responsibility, the Social Assistance State leads to a loss of human energies and an inordinate increase of public agencies, which are dominated more by bureaucratic ways of thinking than by concern for serving their clients, and which are accompanied by an enormous increase in spending”[400]. An absent or insufficient recognition of private initiative - in economic matters also - and the failure to recognize its public function, contribute to the undermining of the principle of subsidiarity, as monopolies do as well. " Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church: Chapter Four-Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace
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JoeFreedom
New member
Amen sister.
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JimG
Guest
Many billionaires have established their own charitable foundations to help the poor rather than donating extra money directly to the federal government, because they know that they can distribute the money more efficiently and less wastefully than would the government.
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PetraG
Guest
You are correct that the function of the state is more in the realm of protecting the vulnerable from the exploitation of unfair income distribution in the first place, rather than redistribution of wealth after the fact [boldface mine]:
V. THE RIGHTS OF WORKERS
a. The dignity of workers and the respect for their rights
301. The rights of workers, like all other rights, are based on the nature of the human person and on his transcendent dignity . The Church’s social Magisterium has seen fit to list some of these rights, in the hope that they will be recognized in juridical systems: the right to a just wage; [651] the right to rest; [652] the right “to a working environment and to manufacturing processes which are not harmful to the workers’ physical health or to their moral integrity”; [653] the right that one’s personality in the workplace should be safeguarded “without suffering any affront to one’s conscience or personal dignity”; [654] the right to appropriate subsidies that are necessary for the subsistence of unemployed workers and their families; [655] the right to a pension and to insurance for old age, sickness, and in case of work-related accidents; [656] the right to social security connected with maternity; [657] the right to assemble and form associations.[658] These rights are often infringed, as is confirmed by the sad fact of workers who are underpaid and without protection or adequate representation. It often happens that work conditions for men, women and children, especially in developing countries, are so inhumane that they are an offence to their dignity and compromise their health.
302. Remuneration is the most important means for achieving justice in work relationships .[659] The “just wage is the legitimate fruit of work”.[660]
They commit grave injustice who refuse to pay a just wage or who do not give it in due time and in proportion to the work done (cf. Lv 19:13; Dt 24:14-15; Jas 5:4). A salary is the instrument that permits the labourer to gain access to the goods of the earth. “Remuneration for labour is to be such that man may be furnished the means to cultivate worthily his own material, social, cultural, and spiritual life and that of his dependents, in view of the function and productiveness of each one, the conditions of the factory or workshop, and the common good”.[661] The simple agreement between employee and employer with regard to the amount of pay to be received is not sufficient for the agreed-upon salary to qualify as a “just wage”, because a just wage “must not be below the level of subsistence”[662] of the worker: natural justice precedes and is above the freedom of the contract.
(cont)
V. THE RIGHTS OF WORKERS
a. The dignity of workers and the respect for their rights
301. The rights of workers, like all other rights, are based on the nature of the human person and on his transcendent dignity . The Church’s social Magisterium has seen fit to list some of these rights, in the hope that they will be recognized in juridical systems: the right to a just wage; [651] the right to rest; [652] the right “to a working environment and to manufacturing processes which are not harmful to the workers’ physical health or to their moral integrity”; [653] the right that one’s personality in the workplace should be safeguarded “without suffering any affront to one’s conscience or personal dignity”; [654] the right to appropriate subsidies that are necessary for the subsistence of unemployed workers and their families; [655] the right to a pension and to insurance for old age, sickness, and in case of work-related accidents; [656] the right to social security connected with maternity; [657] the right to assemble and form associations.[658] These rights are often infringed, as is confirmed by the sad fact of workers who are underpaid and without protection or adequate representation. It often happens that work conditions for men, women and children, especially in developing countries, are so inhumane that they are an offence to their dignity and compromise their health.
302. Remuneration is the most important means for achieving justice in work relationships .[659] The “just wage is the legitimate fruit of work”.[660]
They commit grave injustice who refuse to pay a just wage or who do not give it in due time and in proportion to the work done (cf. Lv 19:13; Dt 24:14-15; Jas 5:4). A salary is the instrument that permits the labourer to gain access to the goods of the earth. “Remuneration for labour is to be such that man may be furnished the means to cultivate worthily his own material, social, cultural, and spiritual life and that of his dependents, in view of the function and productiveness of each one, the conditions of the factory or workshop, and the common good”.[661] The simple agreement between employee and employer with regard to the amount of pay to be received is not sufficient for the agreed-upon salary to qualify as a “just wage”, because a just wage “must not be below the level of subsistence”[662] of the worker: natural justice precedes and is above the freedom of the contract.
(cont)
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PetraG
Guest
cont
303. The economic well-being of a country is not measured exclusively by the quantity of goods it produces but also by taking into account the manner in which they are produced and the level of equity in the distribution of income , which should allow everyone access to what is necessary for their personal development and perfection. An equitable distribution of income is to be sought on the basis of criteria not merely of commutative justice but also of social justice that is, considering, beyond the objective value of the work rendered, the human dignity of the subjects who perform it. Authentic economic well-being is pursued also by means of suitable social policies for the redistribution of income which, taking general conditions into account, look at merit as well as at the need of each citizen.
Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church: Chapter Five, The Rights of Workers
Having said that, it ought to be very clear from the rights outlined above with regards to pensions and so on that those with the ability to pay are going to be paying taxes to make provision for these, as well.
303. The economic well-being of a country is not measured exclusively by the quantity of goods it produces but also by taking into account the manner in which they are produced and the level of equity in the distribution of income , which should allow everyone access to what is necessary for their personal development and perfection. An equitable distribution of income is to be sought on the basis of criteria not merely of commutative justice but also of social justice that is, considering, beyond the objective value of the work rendered, the human dignity of the subjects who perform it. Authentic economic well-being is pursued also by means of suitable social policies for the redistribution of income which, taking general conditions into account, look at merit as well as at the need of each citizen.
Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church: Chapter Five, The Rights of Workers
Having said that, it ought to be very clear from the rights outlined above with regards to pensions and so on that those with the ability to pay are going to be paying taxes to make provision for these, as well.
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Crocus
Guest
It’s great when Nobel Prize economists promote principles that Catholic teaching has said all along, promoting the common good, and creating conditions for human flourishing.How does the Catholic social principle of subsidiarity apply in this issue of looking to the government to raise taxes on the wealthy and redistribute to the poor?
The fundamental goal here is the common good. Thus, Catholic social teaching’s principle of subsidiarity actually includes within it a strong sense of the responsibility of the government for creating the conditions of human flourishing. This is why Pope Benedict XVI linked subsidiarity with solidarity and emphasized in Caritas in Veritate that
Link to article:“Subsidiarity respects personal dignity by recognizing in the person a subject who is always capable of giving something to others.”
https://catholicmoraltheology.com/subsidiarity-is-a-two-sided-coin/
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PetraG
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Yes. One function of the state is to regulate economic activity in a way that preserves the common good and especially protects those who would be exploited in the absence of legal boundaries that protect economic justice.The fundamental goal here is the common good.
By the State we here understand, not the particular form of government prevailing in this or that nation, but the State as rightly apprehended; that is to say, any government conformable in its institutions to right reason and natural law, and to those dictates of the divine wisdom which we have expounded in the encyclical On the Christian Constitution of the State .(26) The foremost duty, therefore, of the rulers of the State should be to make sure that the laws and institutions, the general character and administration of the commonwealth, shall be such as of themselves to realize public well-being and private prosperity. This is the proper scope of wise statesmanship and is the work of the rulers. Now a State chiefly prospers and thrives through moral rule, well-regulated family life, respect for religion and justice, the moderation and fair imposing of public taxes, the progress of the arts and of trade, the abundant yield of the land-through everything, in fact, which makes the citizens better and happier. Hereby, then, it lies in the power of a ruler to benefit every class in the State, and amongst the rest to promote to the utmost the interests of the poor; and this in virtue of his office, and without being open to suspicion of undue interference - since it is the province of the commonwealth to serve the common good. And the more that is done for the benefit of the working classes by the general laws of the country, the less need will there be to seek for special means to relieve them.
Rerum Novarum
We have a country in which there are people who work full time and yet end up without medical care, without sufficient food, and even without shelter. We have workers who are used and discarded like widgets rather than given the dignity proper to working persons. That is not just and it is not acceptable.
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JimG
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I confess I have not studied the social encyclicals in great detail. But just from reading the excerpts I have seen here, I have doubts that they could be made into workable legislation without a great deal of federal bureaucracy and intervention. Imagine putting the USCCB in charge of the economy. I love our bishops, but the results might be less than satisfying.
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PetraG
Guest
What do you mean by “workable” and what do you mean by “less than satisfying”?I confess I have not studied the social encyclicals in great detail. But just from reading the excerpts I have seen here, I have doubts that they could be made into workable legislation without a great deal of federal bureaucracy and intervention. Imagine putting the USCCB in charge of the economy. I love our bishops, but the results might be less than satisfying.
I think we could have a lot better health care system and a lot better economy with no more bureaucracy than we already have. Honestly–why is there an “industry” built up around spreading the risk of catastrophic health care costs? Why is it bad for the state to spend money to make that happen but OK when someone makes it their business to profit from that activity? Are we spending less as a nation for our health care because of our private insurance apparatus? That’s not what the evidence says.
The chances that the people in power are going to make themselves beholden to voices that put justice as described by the New Testament and the saints ahead of the pursuit of wealth are pretty dim, yes.
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PetraG
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Let’s be really clear that we do not have a political party in the United States with a platform that conforms to the social, economic and moral teachings of the Church.Utopia??? By paying people to have children out of wedlock?? By paying people to not work?? By promoting abortion, particularly in minority neighborhoods?? There is nothing moral about the left…
That doesn’t mean that Catholics should not advocate for laws and public policies that are in keeping with a just understanding of the dignity of the human person as taught by Catholic moral teaching.
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Crocus
Guest
Read them then. Then think about what subsidiarity and solidarity would look like.I confess I have not studied the social encyclicals in great detail. But just from reading the excerpts I have seen here, I have doubts that they could be made into workable legislation without a great deal of federal bureaucracy and intervention.
Here is another quote from the above link, the whole of which is well worth your time.
The question, from the perspective of subsidiarity, is does this – or any government program – protect and promote our multi-layered civil society? Does it protect and promote human flourishing and the common good? Because the goal is not smaller government, the goal is the common good.
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Hume
Guest
The higher education bubble has largely popped.
When all the decent paying working class jobs left after NAFTA, everyone started sending their kids to college. In nearly every case with private school and the majority of cases with a public school, a BS or BA hardly justifies its expense.
When all the decent paying working class jobs left after NAFTA, everyone started sending their kids to college. In nearly every case with private school and the majority of cases with a public school, a BS or BA hardly justifies its expense.
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Elizabeth3
Guest
What does paying a just wage have to do with raising taxes on the rich to fight poverty?They commit grave injustice who refuse to pay a just wage or who do not give it in due time and in proportion to the work done (c
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JimG
Guest
With respect to healthcare, there is a growing movement among some physicians to rid themselves of the two greatest obstacles which they see as the primary impediments to providing excellent medical care: government, and insurance companies. They want to be doctors and not coders, clerks, and functionaries for insurance companies and bureaucrats who dictate how they can operate their own medical practice.
Other docs have just given up and settled in to become employees of hospitals and medical conglomerates who tell them what to do.
Other docs have just given up and settled in to become employees of hospitals and medical conglomerates who tell them what to do.
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Crocus
Guest
Actually raising taxes on the rich is an economic policy, for growing the economy, for the common good. Paying a just wage is part of the economic plan.What does paying a just wage have to do with raising taxes on the rich to fight poverty?
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