Fight Poverty! Raise taxes?

[JoeFreedom]

Just wanted to chime in and mention an article I read where 60% of American millionaires supported a tax on wealth over 50 million dollars. So your claim isn’t particularly accurate.

Ah yes, the supposedly moderately wealthy with the same problem as the about-to-be-wealthy, the middle-class, the poor and the ultra-poor. Envy and class-warfare ideology. Those with 50 million make more than the 1-millionaire, so that “richer” person should PAY MORE!

 

[JoeFreedom]

And this is precisely why I believe it is between God and the person, not between a bunch of voters who decide that someone else is not living up to their own charitable standards and forcing them to part with their wealth to give it others through government mandates and coercion.

 

[JoeFreedom]

Yes, many rich people are wealthy because they work hard. Actors actually work hard, and most never get anything like rich. Many other people, however, don’t have the same opportunity to make themselves rich no matter how hard they work.

The point is that as a society we need to be a lot more concerned about people who have food and shelter insecurity, not to mention medical insecurity, no matter how hard they work because they are also people doing work that needs to be done in order for anybody to get wealthy.

Money is not the root of evil, but the love of money is. When you love money so much that you guard your excessive wealth at the expense of other people who are just trying to live, you love money too much.

Why do you have this focus on nine times wealth? And why do focus on the people that aren’t charitable and lumping everyone into having to pay more because some are greedy? And you have to realize that there can never be income equality, and there shouldn’t be. We need to focus on opportunity, but not through punishment of others. We need to focus on ourselves giving more and doing more before pointing out others don’t pay their “fair share”.

 

[PetraG]

Ah yes, the supposedly moderately wealthy with the same problem as the about-to-be-wealthy, the middle-class, the poor and the ultra-poor. Envy and class-warfare ideology. Those with 50 million make more than the 1-millionaire, so that “richer” person should PAY MORE!

No.

Warren Buffett said that none of the 60 or 70 businesses held by Berkshire-Hathaway needed a tax cut to be competitive. He said he was also concerned about what cutting corporate taxes was going to do to the deficit. (Dropping the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21% accounted for $29 billion in additional profit for the B-H companies!)

His personal net worth is estimated at over $86 billion, so it’s pretty clear that he’s not talking out of envy. He said quite bluntly: "I don’t think I need a tax cut.”

He’s right. He didn’t. Not everybody thinks only of themselves.

 

[PetraG]

My mother was a personal finance planner and following her advice saved me from a lot of needless problems.

Even when unemployed I didn’t have to worry about being broke because of my rainy day savings.

Every high school student ought to have a class with Jane Bryant Quinn’s book as the textbook.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

You know, I’ve always despised when others want to punish the good along with the bad.

It is a mistake to equate paying taxes with punishment. Punishment carries with it an implication of wrong-doing. However requiring people to pay taxes carries no such meaning. So find some other word to describe taxes.

 

[JoeFreedom]

Your original comment on this reply thread was about a survey where 60% of those who make one million want people over 50 million to pay more. I responded directly in kind. Not sure what Warren Buffet who has 86 billion has anything to do with that train of thought.

 

[JoeFreedom]

Okay, partially agreed. Taxes do not equal punishment, per se. But when it is stated that those who feel others are greedy, there is an implication that they should be punished by paying more taxes. That’ll serve’m right.

 

[PetraG]

Why do you have this focus on nine times wealth? And why do focus on the people that aren’t charitable and lumping everyone into having to pay more because some are greedy? And you have to realize that there can never be income equality, and there shouldn’t be. We need to focus on opportunity, but not through punishment of others. We need to focus on ourselves giving more and doing more before pointing out others don’t pay their “fair share”.

Well, because I think it is blatantly obvious that they don’t put in nine times as much work and aren’t nine times as smart or nine times as anything else except maybe nine times as fortunate in what the public is willing to pay for that they happen to be good at providing. Fine for them, but they are very fortunate and there is no disputing it.

I have never once said there ought to be income equality. The Church has never said there ought to be income equality. The Church has said, however, that it is the duty of Catholics to see that the people who are most vulnerable to unfairly low compensation for their labor are protected.

Taxes are not a “punishment.” People aren’t being fined for being rich. They’re just being required to contribute more from their excess so that others do not have to pay so much from their want.

As for others paying their fair share, I’d like to remind you that you have no idea what tax bracket I’m in. Suffice it to say that plenty of people in my area, which has one of the highest median incomes in my state, talk the way I do. The implication that everybody wants those who make just a little more than they do to pay more taxes but that they want their own taxes to stay the same or be lower is simply false. That is not the way everybody talks and that is not the way everybody votes.

 

[JoeFreedom]

I have never once said there ought to be income equality. The Church has never said there ought to be income equality. The Church has said, however, that it is the duty of Catholics to see that the people who are most vulnerable to unfairly low compensation for their labor are protected.

And we fundamentally disagree on how to achieve serving the poor. I wholeheartedly am against using government means. 100%

As for others paying their fair share, I’d like to remind you that you have no idea what tax bracket I’m in. Suffice it to say that plenty of people in my area, which has one of the highest median incomes in my state, talk the way I do. The implication that everybody wants those who make just a little more than they do to pay more taxes but that they want their own taxes to stay the same or be lower is simply false. That is not the way everybody talks and that is not the way everybody votes.

You are right. I don’t. I will remind you that the government will accept more taxes than you are required to pay.

 

[PetraG]

He’s free to make gifts to the department of the treasury if he wants to pay more than he’s legally required.

Actually, Bill and Melinda Gates and Warren Buffett created “The Giving Pledge,” by which they have signed up the world’s wealthiest individuals to donate over half their wealth to charity in the forms of trusts or bequests.

Home - The Giving Pledge

 

[PetraG]

Care to support that with some source info ?

At any rate, what they do $pend… trickles down towards - and assists - Mr. Little Pockets

Well, according to Warren Buffett, it doesn’t do any such thing:

Warren Buffett on Tax Reform | The Motley Fool

While Buffett acknowledges that Berkshire’s bottom line will be helped by the new tax law, and he predicts the stock market is likely to rise, that doesn’t mean he thinks the GOP’s tax-reform bill is in the best interest of the American public.

Buffett recently wrote an article for Time magazine in which he explained why trickle-down economics doesn’t really work.

The whole idea behind the GOP’s tax-reform bill is that the massive tax cut for corporations will “trickle down” to the American public in the form of more jobs and higher wages. And the early indications are that this is somewhat true – several high-profile companies announced bonuses for their workers or higher minimum wages in the wake of the legislation.

However, Buffett points out that historically, trickle-down economics hasn’t had the promised effect. He gives the example of the Forbes 400 list of the richest Americans. Between the first version of the list in 1982 and today, the wealth of the top 400 has multiplied by a factor of 29, from $93 billion to $2.7 trillion. Buffett says that at the same time, “many hardworking citizens remained stuck on an economic treadmill.” He added: “During this period, the tsunami of wealth didn’t trickle down. It surged upward.”…
It may surprise you to learn that Buffett thinks the rich, for the most part, don’t pay enough taxes. And he’s got a point. According to a White House report, the 400 richest American households paid less than 23% of their income in taxes in 2013, and about one-fourth of millionaires pay a lower effective tax rate than average middle-income household.

Buffett, who actively campaigned for Hillary Clinton, has said many times that the wealthiest Americans, including himself, are not paying enough taxes, and there was even a tax change proposed by President Obama named after him.

In a nutshell, the Buffett Rule would apply a minimum 30% tax rate on individuals making more than $1 million per year, which would affect roughly 0.3% of all taxpayers.

I’m not a Hillary Clinton supporter by any stretch of the imagination, but this “trickle down” theory is smoke and mirrors and nonsense. If you look at the evidence, it just doesn’t work that way. Let’s stop repeating it over and over as if we have no way to know any better.

 

[Domer90]

And a quickly aging population where birth rates are down.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Okay, partially agreed. Taxes do not equal punishment, per se. But when it is stated that those who feel others are greedy, there is an implication that they should be punished by paying more taxes. That’ll serve’m right.

Those with great wealth are not greedy. They are exceptionally blessed and lucky.

 

[Jen95]

Wait – the uber wealthy donate it to charity? Not the government? Why don’t they just offer to donate cars / insurance for the lowest income people in their cities?
Or why not donate somehow to the coffers of SSDI?
I dare say they wouldn’t be quite so ultra-wealthy if they weren’t in the USA with the relatively low taxes to begin with.
Here’s an article about how 48 percent of Canadians are struggling.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/oecd-tax-rich-social-security-1.5062441

 

[Crocus]

But when it is stated that those who feel others are greedy, there is an implication that they should be punished by paying more taxes.

You may be projecting, a search on this thread shows you alone using the term, “greedy.” Others don’t consider paying taxes to be punishment.

this “trickle down” theory is smoke and mirrors and nonsense. If you look at the evidence, it just doesn’t work that way. Let’s stop repeating it over and over as if we have no way to know any better.

Worth repeating: “trickle down” theory is smoke and mirrors and nonsense.

 

[Peeps]

Start making an economics class mandatory. Educate our children on how money works, how savings works and the way to improve your financial situation…education, a job and no children out of wedlock!

Love this! Awesome idea. Very practical.

 

[Pattylt]

@Peeps, I never had an Econ class but it would have been so helpful! My dad was a CPA and tried to teach me all the basics but I was a stupid teenager who never listened to what their father said! Luckily, as I got older I could call him and by then I did listen! Saved me many a stupid error from credit cards to the types of insurance to get.

Kids need to understand how credit cards work…how to use them effectively and when not to use them. How to build savings. What a credit score is and how to build one. What’s required to buy a house and the analysis of buying vs renting! And so much more…even one semester would help so many and it should be a required class, not an elective!

 

[boldlygo]

This is precisely the difference between big government liberals and small government conservatives. The liberals believe in creeping closer and closer to a completely centralized system that “creates” a utopia whereby all people are forced not to be evil immoral uncharitable and so forth such that no one will ever be poor or hungry again and all will be fair and equal.

???
Utopia??? By paying people to have children out of wedlock?? By paying people to not work?? By promoting abortion, particularly in minority neighborhoods?? There is nothing moral about the left…

 

[Vigilant]

You mean those ILLEGAL immigrant families?