Fighting an Annulment?

[ElanorRigby]

Hello

My wife and I were married for 12 years. She left me for her current boyfriend. I fought to stay in the marriage. During the course of the divorce, she has accused me of trying to kill her and my son. These allegations were dismissed out of hand by a judge as clearly made up. It has been a difficult divorce and she continues to try to poison the children against me. I see the children every other weekend and am doing my best to father them. I grew up in an Anglican church but take the children to church regularly with my Catholic girlfriend.

My ex-wife seeks to annul the marriage on the grounds that I have bipolar disorder. I do have bipolar disorder, but it has always been managed, I have never taken a day off work, and my psychiatrist will write a letter attesting to the same. The fact that I have bipolar disorder in no way affected my ability to decide to get married.

I am not Roman Catholic myself but I am a devout Christian. I do not agree with the church’s position on Divorce but I respect it. What I cannot stomach is that that the Church could say, at my ex-wife’s request, that I never meant to be married and wasn’t capable of marriage and didn’t enter into the marriage in good faith. It was her who cheated throughout the marriage. Have I any recourse here or is the annulment process simply a rubber-stamp so that my ex-wife can remarry with impunity?

Can anyone advise me how to move forward with this?

Thanks

 

[Joan_M]

Hello

My wife and I were married for 12 years. She left me for her current boyfriend. I fought to stay in the marriage. During the course of the divorce, she has accused me of trying to kill her and my son. These allegations were dismissed out of hand by a judge as clearly made up. It has been a difficult divorce and she continues to try to poison the children against me. I see the children every other weekend and am doing my best to father them. I grew up in an Anglican church but take the children to church regularly with my Catholic girlfriend.

My ex-wife seeks to annul the marriage on the grounds that I have bipolar disorder. I do have bipolar disorder, but it has always been managed, I have never taken a day off work, and my psychiatrist will write a letter attesting to the same. The fact that I have bipolar disorder in no way affected my ability to decide to get married.

I am not Roman Catholic myself but I am a devout Christian. I do not agree with the church’s position on Divorce but I respect it. What I cannot stomach is that that the Church could say, at my ex-wife’s request, that I never meant to be married and wasn’t capable of marriage and didn’t enter into the marriage in good faith. It was her who cheated throughout the marriage. Have I any recourse here or is the annulment process simply a rubber-stamp so that my ex-wife can remarry with impunity?

Can anyone advise me how to move forward with this?

Thanks

The Church does not rubber-stamp the annulment. You should contact the Marriage Tribunal where the case is being heard. You have every right to contest this. However, remember that the Sacrament of Marriage is a bond for life. If the Tribunal pronounces that there are no grounds for annulment that means that you are still married, despite any divorce. Yes, I know that you are not Catholic, but truth is truth. That means that you would not be free to validly marry again.

 

[epan]

The Church does not rubber-stamp the annulment. You should contact the Marriage Tribunal where the case is being heard. You have every right to contest this. However, remember that the Sacrament of Marriage is a bond for life. If the Tribunal pronounces that there are no grounds for annulment that means that you are still married, despite any divorce. Yes, I know that you are not Catholic, but truth is truth. That means that you would not be free to validly marry again.

So, let’s say hypothetically that the Tribunal does not hear this evidence, and proceeds to annul the marriage. Does this mean that a valid marriage did not occur in the eyes of God? I guess what I am getting at is the question of the authority of the Marriage Tribunal to annul a marriage. Does this come directly from God? Are they supposed to be His agent in these matters? If their decision is based on incomplete evidence, and they mistakenly annul a marriage, then what does that mean spiritually? Does the marriage still exist, or not?

 

[ElanorRigby]

The Church does not rubber-stamp the annulment. You should contact the Marriage Tribunal where the case is being heard. You have every right to contest this. However, remember that the Sacrament of Marriage is a bond for life. If the Tribunal pronounces that there are no grounds for annulment that means that you are still married, despite any divorce. Yes, I know that you are not Catholic, but truth is truth. That means that you would not be free to validly marry again.

Thanks for your advice. I will contact the tribunal. As I said, I don’t agree with the church’s stance on Divorce but that is between myself and God. My issue here is not that the marriage shouldn’t have ended, but that it is not the Church’s place to say that I didn’t enter into it in good faith and with every good intention. I am confident in my faith that I am now finally living the life God intended for me and I understand that the rules of the church dictate that I can not have a marriage in the Catholic Church. I don’t have an issue with that. What I have an issue with is that my ex-wife, who initiated the divorce, is not prepared to accept the consequences of that in the Church, and can get an annulment to get around them so that she can have the pageantry of another Catholic wedding, be able to demonstrate to her family that the dissolution of the marriage was my fault in the eyes of God, and keep up appearances to the same. According to the spirit of Marriage, Divorce and Annulment in the Catechism as I read it, she is abusing Canon 1095 to these ends.

 

[epan]

Thanks for your advice. I will contact the tribunal. As I said, I don’t agree with the church’s stance on Divorce but that is between myself and God. My issue here is not that the marriage shouldn’t have ended, but that it is not the Church’s place to say that I didn’t enter into it in good faith and with every good intention. I am confident in my faith that I am now finally living the life God intended for me and I understand that the rules of the church dictate that I can not have a marriage in the Catholic Church. I don’t have an issue with that. What I have an issue with is that my ex-wife, who initiated the divorce, is not prepared to accept the consequences of that in the Church, and can get an annulment to get around them so that she can have the pageantry of another Catholic wedding, be able to demonstrate to her family that the dissolution of the marriage was my fault in the eyes of God, and keep up appearances to the same. According to the spirit of Marriage, Divorce and Annulment in the Catechism as I read it, she is abusing Canon 1095 to these ends.

I think you are right to hold her feet to the fire and go to the Tribunal. If she professes Catholicism, then she should be held accountable as a Catholic, and not be allowed to cast off her marriage because she found new boyfriend. She is making a mockery of the purpose of the Tribunal.

 

[Hokomai]

Hello

My wife and I were married for 12 years. She left me for her current boyfriend. I fought to stay in the marriage. During the course of the divorce, she has accused me of trying to kill her and my son. These allegations were dismissed out of hand by a judge as clearly made up. It has been a difficult divorce and she continues to try to poison the children against me. I see the children every other weekend and am doing my best to father them. I grew up in an Anglican church but take the children to church regularly with my Catholic girlfriend.

My ex-wife seeks to annul the marriage on the grounds that I have bipolar disorder. I do have bipolar disorder, but it has always been managed, I have never taken a day off work, and my psychiatrist will write a letter attesting to the same. The fact that I have bipolar disorder in no way affected my ability to decide to get married.

I am not Roman Catholic myself but I am a devout Christian. I do not agree with the church’s position on Divorce but I respect it. What I cannot stomach is that that the Church could say, at my ex-wife’s request, that I never meant to be married and wasn’t capable of marriage and didn’t enter into the marriage in good faith. It was her who cheated throughout the marriage. Have I any recourse here or is the annulment process simply a rubber-stamp so that my ex-wife can remarry with impunity?

Can anyone advise me how to move forward with this?

Thanks

I have the perspective of someone who is keenly interested in the Church’s views on such things, but believes none of it. In my view (I am what people here call a secular humanist so please take that into account): your number one issue is your children. They will at the least not be advantaged by conflict between you and your former wife. they may be disadvantaged by it. Can you work towards the aim of your children being able to be relaxed and happy at their future weddings with you both there? Creating stability and an environment of respect is in my view good for kids. Your second issue is what to think about her annulment plans. My advice is to participate and tell the truth, in order that she can complete the process with the best chance of obtaining happiness, but I do not think you should campaign for a particular outcome. If she says things which are untrue, they are not a problem for you in a confidential processes. If you have an opportunity, give your version. And then care nothing about the outcome. It is a religious thing, and should not trouble anyone who does not believe in the specifics of it. Good luck - and congratulations on handling your bi-polar disorder as well as you do. Bi-polar, like many such conditions, brings benefits to individuals and communities, as well as pain and harm. It sounds like you manage to maximize the one and minimize the other. Fantastic! Good luck. when you have less to concern you, do feel free to have an argument with me about what you believe. I’ll be hanging around here, and will be delighted to disagree.

 

[JRKH]

So, let’s say hypothetically that the Tribunal does not hear this evidence, and proceeds to annul the marriage. Does this mean that a valid marriage did not occur in the eyes of God?

These matters can indeed be complex and difficult to understand, but basically yes - if an decree of nullity is issued it means that no valid sacramental marriage occurred.

I guess what I am getting at is the question of the authority of the Marriage Tribunal to annul a marriage.Does this come directly from God?
Are they supposed to be His agent in these matters?

Yes - through the Offices of Holy Mother Church, instituted of God with Christ’s own authority to bind and loose.

If their decision is based on incomplete evidence, and they mistakenly annul a marriage, then what does that mean spiritually? Does the marriage still exist, or not?

I can only speak for the process in the US here, but the process for annulment is fairly involved and both parties are given an opportunity to participate, give evidence, and call witnesses…As a petitioner, I had to answer 45 essay type questions just to apply. I would imagine that the questionnaires for the witnesses are likewise thorough and the Tribunal was not hesitant about asking for more information if needed.
So - based on this - one can see that the Tribunals take every reasonable precaution to ensure that they DO have all pertinent evidence.

That said…IF there is evidence not presented, or if someone presents false evidence, and a decree of nullity is issued, the decree remains valid for it was arrived at justly within the parameters of the process.
Naturally though - sin has occurred and the one who committed the sin will stand judged for said sin. However - those who have not sinned and acted rightly based upon the just decision of the Tribunal remain innocent.

Hope that helps.

Peace
James

 

[Hokomai]

That said…IF there is evidence not presented, or if someone presents false evidence, and a decree of nullity is issued, the decree remains valid for it was arrived at justly within the parameters of the process. Naturally though - sin has occurred and the one who committed the sin will stand judged for said sin. However - those who have not sinned and acted rightly based upon the just decision of the Tribunal remain innocent.

James as I understand it a decree of nullity is a decree that the marriage did not exist in the first place. Surely a vaild marriage would remain in place, even if a tribunal, in error, declared it null? Or is this a case of the Church accepting divorce, provided it was an error?

 

[JRKH]

Thanks for your advice. I will contact the tribunal. As I said, I don’t agree with the church’s stance on Divorce but that is between myself and God. My issue here is not that the marriage shouldn’t have ended, but that it is not the Church’s place to say that I didn’t enter into it in good faith and with every good intention. I am confident in my faith that I am now finally living the life God intended for me and I understand that the rules of the church dictate that I can not have a marriage in the Catholic Church. I don’t have an issue with that. What I have an issue with is that my ex-wife, who initiated the divorce, is not prepared to accept the consequences of that in the Church, and can get an annulment to get around them so that she can have the pageantry of another Catholic wedding, be able to demonstrate to her family that the dissolution of the marriage was my fault in the eyes of God, and keep up appearances to the same. According to the spirit of Marriage, Divorce and Annulment in the Catechism as I read it, she is abusing Canon 1095 to these ends.

I applaud you for your stance here though I would suggest that you carefully and prayerfully consider your actions and reasons as you move forward on this. I am sure that you are feeling quite hurt and with raw emotions - perfectly understandable. But I implore you to turn as much of this over to God as you can. Remain calm and as much as possible dispassionate.
Please don’t read the above as condescending - I hope it does not sound like I am…It’s just that I have been there…boy have I been there…

I’m not sure where you are located, but as I mentioned in my post above, in the US the system is set up so that the former spouse of the petitioner has the opportunity to provide evidence as well as witnesses. Additionally (in the US) the decision of the first tribunal is reviewed by a second tribunal and, if you still feel that the decision is in error, you can appeal directly to Rome.
If you are not in the US, the system may be set-up somewhat differently…As Joan has already suggested, get in contact with the appropriate people so that you can get good sound advice on how to proceed.

Peace
James

 

[ElanorRigby]

I have the perspective of someone who is keenly interested in the Church’s views on such things, but believes none of it. In my view (I am what people here call a secular humanist so please take that into account): your number one issue is your children. They will at the least not be advantaged by conflict between you and your former wife. they may be disadvantaged by it. Can you work towards the aim of your children being able to be relaxed and happy at their future weddings with you both there? Creating stability and an environment of respect is in my view good for kids. Your second issue is what to think about her annulment plans. My advice is to participate and tell the truth, in order that she can complete the process with the best chance of obtaining happiness, but I do not think you should campaign for a particular outcome. If she says things which are untrue, they are not a problem for you in a confidential processes. If you have an opportunity, give your version. And then care nothing about the outcome. It is a religious thing, and should not trouble anyone who does not believe in the specifics of it. Good luck - and congratulations on handling your bi-polar disorder as well as you do. Bi-polar, like many such conditions, brings benefits to individuals and communities, as well as pain and harm. It sounds like you manage to maximize the one and minimize the other. Fantastic! Good luck. when you have less to concern you, do feel free to have an argument with me about what you believe. I’ll be hanging around here, and will be delighted to disagree.

What a kind and thoughtful response. Thank you for your voice of reason. And I do think you’re right - since I don’t believe the Church is right about this, it shouldn’t bother me. I suppose it’s just one more thing in a litany of painful accusations lobbed against me in an adversarial process. Ultimately, I plan to do as you said. I’m going to give my honest testimony about the situation and back it up with people who can authenticate it. And then I’ll have to make my peace with the outcome because it is out of my hands. I agree that the most important thing is the children. I know that they are excited and happy about our upcoming marriage and I hope that if their mother finds happiness, she will give up on her attempts to turn them against us and find peace herself.

Again, thanks for the kind words.

 

[JRKH]

I have the perspective of someone who is keenly interested in the Church’s views on such things, but believes none of it. In my view (I am what people here call a secular humanist so please take that into account): your number one issue is your children. They will at the least not be advantaged by conflict between you and your former wife. they may be disadvantaged by it. Can you work towards the aim of your children being able to be relaxed and happy at their future weddings with you both there? Creating stability and an environment of respect is in my view good for kids. Your second issue is what to think about her annulment plans. My advice is to participate and tell the truth, in order that she can complete the process with the best chance of obtaining happiness, but I do not think you should campaign for a particular outcome. If she says things which are untrue, they are not a problem for you in a confidential processes. If you have an opportunity, give your version. And then care nothing about the outcome. It is a religious thing, and should not trouble anyone who does not believe in the specifics of it. Good luck - and congratulations on handling your bi-polar disorder as well as you do. Bi-polar, like many such conditions, brings benefits to individuals and communities, as well as pain and harm. It sounds like you manage to maximize the one and minimize the other. Fantastic! Good luck. when you have less to concern you, do feel free to have an argument with me about what you believe. I’ll be hanging around here, and will be delighted to disagree.

Some very good advice here…

Peace
James

 

[ElanorRigby]

I applaud you for your stance here though I would suggest that you carefully and prayerfully consider your actions and reasons as you move forward on this. I am sure that you are feeling quite hurt and with raw emotions - perfectly understandable. But I implore you to turn as much of this over to God as you can. Remain calm and as much as possible dispassionate.
Please don’t read the above as condescending - I hope it does not sound like I am…It’s just that I have been there…boy have I been there…

Your advice is sound and compassionate - I appreciate it. Turning it over is the best course of action. Thanks!

 

[1ke]

As I said, I don’t agree with the church’s stance on Divorce but that is between myself and God. My issue here is not that the marriage shouldn’t have ended, but that it is not the Church’s place to say that I didn’t enter into it in good faith and with every good intention.

OK, let’s stop right here. That is not what a decree of nullity or the Church would be “saying” about you.

Further, your position on divorce is more relevant and problematic than your bipolar disorder, actually.

I highly recommend the book Annulment: The Wedding That Was by Michael Smith Foster. It will really help you understand what nullity is and isn’t. It seems you have some serious misconceptions-- understandable since you are not Catholic (a lot of Catholics have misconceptions too!!!).

If and when she petitions for the decree of nullity, you will receive paperwork. You are invited to participate in the process, to give your testimony, and present your witnesses.

I am confident in my faith that I am now finally living the life God intended for me and I understand that the rules of the church dictate that I can not have a marriage in the Catholic Church.

If your marriage is valid, you cannot have another one at all. I think you are missing some important aspects of what Christ teaches about marriage.

I don’t have an issue with that. What I have an issue with is that my ex-wife, who initiated the divorce, is not prepared to accept the consequences of that in the Church, and can get an annulment to get around them so that she can have the pageantry of another Catholic wedding, be able to demonstrate to her family that the dissolution of the marriage was my fault in the eyes of God, and keep up appearances to the same. According to the spirit of Marriage, Divorce and Annulment in the Catechism as I read it, she is abusing Canon 1095 to these ends.

Again, I really encourage you to get a copy of the book I mentioned above, from Amazon.com or maybe from inter-library loan. It is worth your time to understand what a decree of nullity is and isn’t. And also better understand the Church’s teaching.

It is clear there is a lot of acrimony between you two. And I’m not casting blame, but she sounds like she has some really serious issues and is doing some really awful things to you and your children. I hope she will come to her senses and realize she needs to stop doing hurtful things.

However, you are making some assumptions here-- for example that she will try to “blame” everything on you and on bipolar disorder. She could in fact “blame” it on her own defect of intent. If she was cheating before and during your marriage that is some pretty strong evidence she may not have been able to form or give valid consent.

It wouuld be best to wait and see what actual grounds she files a petition under, and whether or not the tribunal even accepts the case.

 

[ElanorRigby]

At what point am I likely to know what grounds the petition is being filed under? I see in the initial package that I have the right to know on what grounds the marriage is to be annulled, but I’m not sure of the timeline there. Does that happen before or after my interview and witnesses?

I’m sorry, but being told that I don’t understand Christ’s teachings on marriage well enough is not helpful. Lots of different people and different Christian Churches have different understandings about that, and the Church has changed its own interpretation of Christ’s teachings enough times.

 

[1ke]

At what point am I likely to know what grounds the petition is being filed under? I see in the initial package that I have the right to know on what grounds the marriage is to be annulled, but I’m not sure of the timeline there. Does that happen before or after my interview and witnesses?

It will all be in any paperwork you receive. The grounds upon which it is being filed will be included. How else would you be able to respond to the petition? You must know the grounds in order to affirm or refute them.

I’m sorry, but being told that I don’t understand Christ’s teachings on marriage well enough is not helpful. Lots of different people and different Christian Churches have different understandings about that, and the Church has changed its own interpretation of Christ’s teachings enough times.

We shall agree to disagree.

My point is, though, that your understanding of marriage may in fact be relevant to the nullity proceedings.

The book I suggested can be quite helpful. I hope you will consider it.

 

[ElanorRigby]

Hmm. That’s interesting. I wonder if it’s different in Canada? The paperwork I received says -

"Central to your rights is the right to be heard. In consideration of this, it is our firm practice to ask for a statement from the other party, namely yourself, so that we might better understand the difficulties that existed in the marriage and have your views on the matter. We ask your co-operation in helping us to arrive at this fuller and more complete understanding. To that end, we would like to arrange an interview with you at your earliest convenience. At that time, you would have the opportunity to present the story of your marriage to x, as well as have your questions about the case or the process answered…

Because we would like to bring this case forward as quickly as possible, I would ask that you communicate your intentions in this matter with our office within fifteen days of your reception of this notification. At the end of this time, the Court will take the next step in the process and establish the exact ground(s) on which the case will be examined. Consequently, it is important that we have your response soon."

To me this sounds like I will find out at the next step what the grounds are? Am I reading this wrong or does this seem right? I can’t find any mention of anything like grounds or reasons anywhere else in the package - it’s just witness forms and interview forms, etc.

 

[1ke]

So that is sounds like an introductory letter. They’ve outlined the process, so I encourage you to respond and to follow the steps they have outlined.

You will certainly know the grounds before you give testimony or your witnesses give testimony.

Sounds like this first step is just preliminaries.

 

[JRKH]

Hmm. That’s interesting. I wonder if it’s different in Canada? The paperwork I received says -

"Central to your rights is the right to be heard. In consideration of this, it is our firm practice to ask for a statement from the other party, namely yourself, so that we might better understand the difficulties that existed in the marriage and have your views on the matter. We ask your co-operation in helping us to arrive at this fuller and more complete understanding. To that end, we would like to arrange an interview with you at your earliest convenience. At that time, you would have the opportunity to present the story of your marriage to x, as well as have your questions about the case or the process answered…

Because we would like to bring this case forward as quickly as possible, I would ask that you communicate your intentions in this matter with our office within fifteen days of your reception of this notification. At the end of this time, the Court will take the next step in the process and establish the exact ground(s) on which the case will be examined. Consequently, it is important that we have your response soon."

To me this sounds like I will find out at the next step what the grounds are? Am I reading this wrong or does this seem right? I can’t find any mention of anything like grounds or reasons anywhere else in the package - it’s just witness forms and interview forms, etc.

Well - someone more familiar with the process in Canada would be able to give a better answer…but from what you write here, it appears that the Tribunal wishes to get your testimony “without bias” (if that is the right term). In other words, if they tell you what she said, before they hear from you, it could effect effect the testimony…

I know that, in my case here in the US, Once all of the testimonies were received by the Tribunal - there was a 10 day period arranged where the petitioner (me) and my former spouse were free to go to the chancery (by appointment) and review all of the testimonies and other paperwork before it went to the Tribunal for disposition.
In the review of said paperwork, issues and concerns could certainly be brought up and the Tribunal would seek to address them as appropriate.

I hope you will be able to get in and give your testimony quickly.
May God guide you and give you peace.

Peace
James

 

[maltmom]

I am so sorry you are going through this. I don’t blame you for being very hurt and angry. As others have said turn it over to God. The process can be very painful. I’m going through it now. There is a good chance that the Tribunal will look more at her actions before, during and after your civil divorce. If your doctor and your witnesses will attest to the fact that the bi-polar has been under control it could become a non-issue. Even without having all of the facts deep in my heart I feel that they are going to look at her more than you.

Please step back and take a deep breath and look to the future. I know it galls you that the Church may be looking at you in a way that is both unsettling and unfair. In the long run a decree of nullity may end up being a blessing from God and the Church to you. Why? Right now you are dating a Catholic woman. What if down the line you want to marry her and she wants to be married in the Catholic church. She won’t be able to because the decree of nullity was denied. I know you are angry at the Church right now. I understand that. But what if one day your heart softens and you want to convert. Then you could never remarry in the Church. I know that sounds far fetched, but if someone had told me 5 years ago that I would meet someone, get married, get divorced and heaven forbid I’d become Catholic I would have told them they’d lost their mind. All of those things happened.

Again, I know you are hurt and angry. I don’t blame you. I’ve been there. Just remember God has a plan. While on the surface it may appear that the decree of nullity is for her, in the long run it may be for you.

You and your children are in my prayers.

 

[ElanorRigby]

Well - someone more familiar with the process in Canada would be able to give a better answer…but from what you write here, it appears that the Tribunal wishes to get your testimony “without bias” (if that is the right term). In other words, if they tell you what she said, before they hear from you, it could effect effect the testimony…

I know that, in my case here in the US, Once all of the testimonies were received by the Tribunal - there was a 10 day period arranged where the petitioner (me) and my former spouse were free to go to the chancery (by appointment) and review all of the testimonies and other paperwork before it went to the Tribunal for disposition.
In the review of said paperwork, issues and concerns could certainly be brought up and the Tribunal would seek to address them as appropriate.

I hope you will be able to get in and give your testimony quickly.
May God guide you and give you peace.

Peace
James

Well that is helpful. Thanks. It hardly seems just that the “grounds” which feel more like “charges” aren’t made known to me before I choose my witnesses, as I can’t address them without knowing. I may ask to have them made known before going forward.

As much as the paperwork states that I’m not being accused of anything, if my ex-wife is going to make the case that I didn’t enter into the marriage of my own will, or in good faith, or that I didn’t understand it, that’s an accusation, no matter how wrapped in church-speak it is. It’s sad that the court system had to let me know her allegations before I responded but the Church does not. I can really see how people are made cynical about Religion when I see hypocritical processes like this in action. We had begun steps for me to take the RCIA in the fall but I’m not sure I can do that in good faith if this is the way the Church treats people. It’s very sad.

The best advice I’ve read is still to surrender it and ultimately that is what we will do.