Fights as Spanish Civil War clergy are beatified

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Now the Moors are terrorists?
Oh, is that what Bones meant? As I understand it, the Moors conquered southern Spain as any army conquers a foreign land, and brought with them a new culture, customs, and learning. In their turn, the army of the Christians of northern Spain slowly reconquered southern Spain until all was under their control some 780 years later. So, where are the terrorists?
Franco ruled Spain with an iron fist…I’m still failing to see how that was a good thing. Oppression ≠ a good.
Yes, even if the oppressor were to go to Mass daily.
 
Now the Moors are terrorists?

Franco ruled Spain with an iron fist…I’m still failing to see how that was a good thing. Oppression ≠ a good.
What is inherently wrong with an “iron fist”? Seriously, what is wrong with it? Human beings do not deserve total freedom, as total freedom is both dangerous to the individual and the whole.
Pope Innocent III, regarded as one of our greatest Popes of all time, ruled Europe with an “iron fist”.
 
I love how all the anti-Franco liberals are totally ignoring the fact that the communistic “Popular Front” government won through fraud and intimidation and butchered tens of thousands of innocent Spaniards (known as the “Red Terror of Spain”)

Franco was a model leader, along with Portugal’s Antonio Salazar. If Franco were still ruling Spain the country would be in much better shape.


President Eisenhower warmly embraces Franco

If President Eisenhower appreciated Franco, then we should too!
 
What is inherently wrong with an “iron fist”? Seriously, what is wrong with it? Human beings do not deserve total freedom, as total freedom is both dangerous to the individual and the whole.
I know that Hitler and Mussolini and Stalin and Mao Tse Tung and Ho Chi Minh would entirely agree with you.
Pope Innocent III, regarded as one of our greatest Popes of all time, ruled Europe with an “iron fist”.
No, he had great influence over the secular rulers of the early 13th century, but he hardly “ruled Europe.”
 
I love how all the anti-Franco liberals are totally ignoring the fact that the communistic “Popular Front” government won through fraud and intimidation and butchered tens of thousands of innocent Spaniards (known as the “Red Terror of Spain”)
And, in turn Franco went on to try to butcher them. What a swell bunch of guys all around, eh?
Franco was a model leader, along with Portugal’s Antonio Salazar. If Franco were still ruling Spain the country would be in much better shape.
Next joke, please.
If President Eisenhower appreciated Franco, then we should too!
And, if President Roosevelt liked and appreciated Stalin, then we should too! Logical.
 
What is inherently wrong with an “iron fist”? Seriously, what is wrong with it? Human beings do not deserve total freedom, as total freedom is both dangerous to the individual and the whole.
Pope Innocent III, regarded as one of our greatest Popes of all time, ruled Europe with an “iron fist”.
What is wrong with ruling with an iron fist is that it infringes upon God-given human rights and violates our human dignity.

Since when has an iron fisted ruler reign with charity and compassion? Those are key components of the Gospels.

When you tell me how love fits into fascism, I’ll back you up in that Franco was an excellent role-model, but until that day, the way he governed his people is not something to admire or be nostalgic about.

I’m sure why you said humans don’t deserve total freedom; I never argued they did. What is best, however, is a middle ground between complete anarchy and absolute fascism. Franco tends to epitomize the latter.
 
There seems to be some amount of double-talk on the anti-Franco side…

Apparently Franco was bad because he “allied” with Hitler to defeat the Communists. The West on the other hand was not bad, although it allied with the Soviets to defeat Hitler. Nay, the latter alliance even seems to mean, that Franco was bad for fighting soviets at all!?

What logic step am I missing, this seems nonsense to me?
  • CB
 
There seems to be some amount of double-talk on the anti-Franco side…

Apparently Franco was bad because he “allied” with Hitler to defeat the Communists.
No, he was bad because he sent troops to fight our ally, a critical ally in the defeat of Germany.
 
Might not as well Germany have been a critical ally against Soviet?

You seem to assume that Germany was much worse than the communists…
  • CB
 
The communists and socialist started killing clergy before Franco’s insurrection.
And they also were convered in blood, romantic brigadieers mythology appart.
Well done Professor Pope. If Zapatero whats to present the left as a victims, let remember the other victims also.
Viva España!
 
As a Spanish Catholic, I guess I should comment. My grandfather (who lives in Spain) says that before Franco came along, Spain was turning into a third-world country. Franco changed all that. Were people killed by Franco through the secret police? Yes, and my grandfather has plenty of stories to tell. Nevertheless, Franco did save the country, and let’s not pretend that his enemies didn’t have blood on their hands too or that they weren’t persectuting the church. Also this talk about Franco being pro-Nazi is a bit ill-informed. Spain remained neutral during the Second World War and Franco did harbour Jewish refugees. Anyway… Franco was a murderer but so were his enemies.
Also, my grandfather tells me that many Spaniards hate their new government. Basically, they were elected into power because after the Madrid bombings, the people were afraid of going to war so they chose a far-left leaning party. But whatever… It’s not like I’m an expert anyway. I’m off to work 😛
 
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