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Finally, Catholic Answers comes clean with the mormon threat ownership.
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RebeccaJ
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Do mormons teach converts ALL mormon doctrine before baptizing someone? Most here know the answer to this question is “no”. So going with that, if you aren’t teaching people all mormon doctrines, and saving some of the “meat” for later, then you are NOT bringing people into your church willingly, but rather by deception. Willingly implies FULL disclosure.
What, exactly, are you alluding to?Now, if you really want to go into the Catholic Church’s history of how they aquired “converts” in days of old, we could do that on another thread
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PattyPryor
Guest
This is getting horrible. all y’all do is go around and around in circles.
I’m sorry but I have been in the LDS church and may be there is no printed material basin other faiths but they sure do it!
I personally find it horrible that the LDS Church does Shunning and lies about it. and DO NOT tell me they don’t there are websites upon websites of people who left and now can’t talk to thier family anymore. All in the name of the one true church
I don’t know why y’all keep coming her and posting on here the same type of thread over and over.
We get your point Catholics are horrible
moving on…
let’s talk about what GOOD thinks this site brings even if your not a member
I’m sorry but I have been in the LDS church and may be there is no printed material basin other faiths but they sure do it!
I personally find it horrible that the LDS Church does Shunning and lies about it. and DO NOT tell me they don’t there are websites upon websites of people who left and now can’t talk to thier family anymore. All in the name of the one true church
I don’t know why y’all keep coming her and posting on here the same type of thread over and over.
We get your point Catholics are horrible
moving on…
let’s talk about what GOOD thinks this site brings even if your not a member
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hosemonkey
Guest
“Finally hears the TRUTH for the FIRST time?”Well…Maybe the Catholics SHOULD go door to door; just might help them share their faith with those who would be interested:thumbsup:
As far as standing by and stealing away from Christ’s flock…They (the Mormons) do not “steal” anyone. If someone who is Catholic finally hears the truth for the first time from a Mormon and wants to join the true church, they go willingly! Now, if you really want to go into the Catholic Church’s history of how they aquired “converts” in days of old, we could do that on another thread
Annie
They will most assuredly NOT hear the truth from any follower of the mormon cult, and if they are Catholic ALL they will hear will be the truth. There is little, if any, “truth” in mormonism. Your “religion” was built on fraud, deception, plagiarism and immorality.
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zerinus
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Thank you Annie, and welcome to CAF.Z - what a wonderful defender of the faith you are!
Annie
zerinus
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why_me
Guest
Of course you do see your biasness in your post.
It is easy to call a faith a religious cult but as we drift back in time, I am sure that the Romans considered christianity a cult. Mormonism is rather successful as a relgion. It is vibrant and strong. And it is attacked every day on the internet and quite often in the media. But it still survives.
I see no cult.
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why_me
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Most catholics have no clue about their religious doctrine. My own relatives are a typical bunch of catholcs who know very little of catholic doctrine. What is your point?
Active Mormons and good catholics have their faith in christ in common. And with that, they can work together to build a better world.
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why_me
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From the mormonapologetic site’s thread in response to catholic answers:
QUOTE(Shoofly @ Feb 22 2008, 01:58 PM) *
If I may contrast the OP with what has happened in my neck of the woods.
I live in a smaller farm town in Northern Utah that has been in a building boom the last few years. A local Catholic congregation had purchased land to build a new Church on but was struggling to come up with the funds to do so. Our Stake hosted a dinner in the Stake Center as a fund raiser for this Church. It was promoted and mostly supported by the LDS folks in the community. I know quite a bit of money was raised in this effort. This is the first non-LDS church to be built in our city and thanks to many, the new Church is close to completion. It sits within a half block of an existing LDS Chapel. We hope we are being good neighbors and doing what our Savior would have us do in helping our Bothers and Sisters in Christ.
I’m sure others have similar stories of helping one another.
Isn’t this the way it ought to be?
Now that is the christian spirit in action. I am proud of this town and the mormon community that resides in that town.
QUOTE(Shoofly @ Feb 22 2008, 01:58 PM) *
If I may contrast the OP with what has happened in my neck of the woods.
I live in a smaller farm town in Northern Utah that has been in a building boom the last few years. A local Catholic congregation had purchased land to build a new Church on but was struggling to come up with the funds to do so. Our Stake hosted a dinner in the Stake Center as a fund raiser for this Church. It was promoted and mostly supported by the LDS folks in the community. I know quite a bit of money was raised in this effort. This is the first non-LDS church to be built in our city and thanks to many, the new Church is close to completion. It sits within a half block of an existing LDS Chapel. We hope we are being good neighbors and doing what our Savior would have us do in helping our Bothers and Sisters in Christ.
I’m sure others have similar stories of helping one another.
Isn’t this the way it ought to be?
Now that is the christian spirit in action. I am proud of this town and the mormon community that resides in that town.
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Annie_B
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Nobody I have EVER met in the LDS Church says (or thinks) that “Catholics are horrible” as you so put it. If anything, I have found more respect in the LDS church for ALL other churches than in any other denomination. True, there are some “bad apples” in the LDS church. However, you can find “bad apples” in any church, because people are involved. The ONLY perfect person in the world was Jesus; the rest of us have faults.
Annie
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Annie_B
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Well, no - nobody is taught EVERYTHING sbout ANY religion when they first seek it out and eventually join - Catholics included. I think you would be hard pressed to find a “Catholic Convert” who has had the entire catechism read and explained to them before they become members of the Catholic church.
As far as “alluding to” something; I was merely referring to the way that the Catholic church, throughout history, including the Native Americans, the Crusades etc. has aquired converts. I do believe that the apology given by Pope JP II included these events among others. Here is a direct link to the information:
wais.stanford.edu/Religion/religion_pope.html
To be fair, the LDS church does have some “black marks” too and appologies have also been issued. The important thing is that we all recognize when we have made mistakes and we act accordingly.
Annie
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Annie_B
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Thank you for posting this. When I lived in Nevada, a particular protestant church was having trouble getting their building up (which was a block away from our LDS chapel). There was nobody to help them, as the location was out in the middle of the desert. We had members who wanted to help the other church build it’s building, but they would have nothing of the Mormons helping them. How sad. There are countless examples of members of the LDS church helping build other church buildings etc. without regard to the denomintaion; they just want to help build and strengthen the community.From the mormonapologetic site’s thread in response to catholic answers:
QUOTE(Shoofly @ Feb 22 2008, 01:58 PM) *
If I may contrast the OP with what has happened in my neck of the woods.
I live in a smaller farm town in Northern Utah that has been in a building boom the last few years. A local Catholic congregation had purchased land to build a new Church on but was struggling to come up with the funds to do so. Our Stake hosted a dinner in the Stake Center as a fund raiser for this Church. It was promoted and mostly supported by the LDS folks in the community. I know quite a bit of money was raised in this effort. This is the first non-LDS church to be built in our city and thanks to many, the new Church is close to completion. It sits within a half block of an existing LDS Chapel. We hope we are being good neighbors and doing what our Savior would have us do in helping our Bothers and Sisters in Christ.
I’m sure others have similar stories of helping one another.
Isn’t this the way it ought to be?
Now that is the christian spirit in action. I am proud of this town and the mormon community that resides in that town.
Annie
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Annie_B
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ibkc
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Actually, the formal conversion process can take multiple years in some cases, and well-implemented RCIA classes provide a comprehensive overview of exactly what new converts are getting into before the take that swim. In my class, each RCIA student was issued a Catechism for free. Not an abridged overview - the complete, official CCC. We spent four hours of class time in instructions on how to read it and how to find specific items within it, and the rest of our classes have mostly focused on detailed explanations of the sacraments, the liturgy and other important aspects of Catholic worship. I feel pretty confident that nowhere down the line will some weird “sacred” (translation: secret) doctrine or ritual be sprung on me.
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Annie_B
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The only shunning I have ever experienced was from a friend of mine who left the LDS church:she would not even speak to me at all - I told her that I did not care that she left the church as I am sure she had her reasons. I told her that I just valued her friendship and did not want to lose it. She shunned me and I lost what I considered to be a dear friend.
Annie
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Annie_B
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Good for you! I am glad that you are well informed and that you are confident of what you believe. I feel the same way about my faith
Annie
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zerinus
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That is not the Lord’s way nor the biblical way:
Acts 2:
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Acts 8:
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
That is the Lord’s way. No RCIA!
When we say that the early Christian church apostatized, and the doctrines, practices, and procedures were changed, these are the kinds of things that we have in mind. They are very good examples of that.
zerinus
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ibkc
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I’m sorry, where in what you posted does it say “No RCIA!”? Or “no learning about one’s faith”, for that matter? It doesn’t.
I believe that the requirements you post above assume a convert to understand what s/he is doing, and that tricking a new convert into professing a faith without revealing its tenets is wrong and not Biblical. The Catholic Church wants its converts to understand the faith before joining. It does not indulge in a dishonest charade designed to quickly dunk as many people as possible. Quality over quantity always.
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zerinus
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That is exactly true. Those who leave the LDS Church often shun their own former LDS friends and associates; and then they come and falsely claim that the LDS have shunned them. That is nearly always what happens.
zerinus
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zerinus
Guest
Yes, the convert needs to understand the basics—not the deep theological stuff, but the basics. The basics are faith in Jesus Christ and repentance of their sins, not much more. And it doesn’t take years or even months. In the case of the Jews whom Peter was addressing, or the eunuch whom Philip taught, it took one day! That is how it was with John the Baptist. That is how it was with Paul and all the rest of the Apostles. A sincere expression of faith, and repentance was all that was required. Here are some more examples for you to look at, in case that wasn’t enough:
Acts 10:
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.
Acts 16:
33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
Acts 18:
8 And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, ***believed on the Lord ***with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.
Acts 22:
16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
No RCIA!
zerinus
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ibkc
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‘Deep theological stuff’ isn’t covered in RCIA. The basics of the Christian faith are. The whole of the person is addressed in learning about Christianity from the Catholic standpoint: the emotional, the spiritual and the intellectual. A convert does not come out confused or conflicted on any level because all parts of the soul have been nourished.
If you were arguing from a Protestant standpoint, I could take you a little more seriously here; but since you are a Mormon, I just cannot. Sorry. So many things in the Scripture you quote assume certain truths, which Mormons violate to some of the most egraegious extremes. The biggest one for me is that the Jews who were the original Apostles of Christ, were monotheists. Christianity is a monotheistic religion. When the Scriptures you quote were composed, the assumption is that anyone coming to Christ is aware and accepting of this. It is still that way, today. But Mormonism is polytheistic/henotheistic, and I know for a fact that many converts to Mormonism, carried away by the warmth and friendliness shown to potential converts in lieu of actual instruction on the “basics” of Mormon religion, have allowed themselves to be baptised without knowing that they were essentially joining a polytheistic Christo-pagan cult.
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