Finally told my parents I'm going to Catholic Mass

[Jon_S_1]

My parents are sola scriptura Protestants of the evangelical persuasion.

Today, I told them I’ve been attending Catholic Mass since July and that I believe the Catholic Church is the Church established by Christ Himself.

In response, I was told:

• The Catholic Church started off right but is now heretical.
• Mary is worshipped.
• The Catholic Church changed the Ten Commandments.
• The Catholic Church added books to the Bible.
• The Pope claims to be Christ’s representative.
• Nothing outside of Scripture should be believed. (Good thing I didn’t mention private revelations.)
• That the Real Presence of the Eucharist is just a matter of faith, so whether or not they believed that in the beginning is not relevant.
• God gave us freedom after resurrection of Christ, so no need to “nitpick” on details.
• All you need to do is belief in Jesus to be saved, so why am I complicating things?
• And finally, that I’m disturbing the peace of the family by not following the church that I grew up with and that I’m causing my mother grief.
• (Plus other things I can’t remember at the moment…they brought up the 15-7th century corruption of the Church (e.g., indulgences) and the Inquisition and killing of heretics…which I stated that impeccability is not infallibility as guided by the Holy Spirit)

I tried my best to counter all the arguments, as I’ve heard most of these before, but they don’t seem to listen (or want to listen). They are convinced they are right. They asked me why I decided to convert and told them I felt led by the Holy Spirit after reading written accounts and inspired writings. They balked that the Holy Spirit would cause disturbance within the family.

They forbade me from going to Church/Mass. (I don’t live with them — only visiting for the week, so in practice, they can’t really forbid me.)

On the one hand, I have to follow what I believe to be the Church established by Christ. On the other hand, my parents are getting old and not of the best health — I feel bad causing grief and pain. They seem to take this very personally. I was close to telling them I have to follow Jesus even at the expense of parents (per Jesus’ commandment), but I refrained as I thought they would break out in tears and be broken.

Please pray for me that I remain constant in my faith and that one day, they may open their eyes and accept the faith of the Church. I tried to explain to them that I find fuller richness of truth in the Catholic Church from the unbroken 2000 year lineage. But then we’re back to the “They were right in the beginning, but they are corrupt and heretical now” spiel.

I envy you cradle Catholics born into the faith…

I am so happy you crossed this step. I know when I did, it brought some relief just having it out on the table.

I will keep you in my prayers.

I wrote my parents a letter after our initial discussions. I focused less on the apologetic arguments and more on the why of my conversion. I spoke if authority and Matt 18 a little but the bulk of it was about how I am actively pursuing Christ and the flourishing of my spiritual life.

The letter in this context was very well received.

As your parents told you, "All you need to do is belief in Jesus to be saved, ". If they really believe that then they should not care how you choose to express that belief.

Remember too you are not disrupting the family. They are choosing to be disturbed by their prejudice and discomfort about something they don’t understand.

God Bless,

 

[Peter_J]

My parents are sola scriptura Protestants of the evangelical persuasion.

Today, I told them I’ve been attending Catholic Mass since July and that I believe the Catholic Church is the Church established by Christ Himself.

In response, I was told:

• The Catholic Church started off right but is now heretical.
• Mary is worshipped.
• The Catholic Church changed the Ten Commandments.
• The Catholic Church added books to the Bible.
• The Pope claims to be Christ’s representative.
• Nothing outside of Scripture should be believed. (Good thing I didn’t mention private revelations.)
• That the Real Presence of the Eucharist is just a matter of faith, so whether or not they believed that in the beginning is not relevant.
• God gave us freedom after resurrection of Christ, so no need to “nitpick” on details.
• All you need to do is belief in Jesus to be saved, so why am I complicating things?
• And finally, that I’m disturbing the peace of the family by not following the church that I grew up with and that I’m causing my mother grief.
• (Plus other things I can’t remember at the moment…they brought up the 15-7th century corruption of the Church (e.g., indulgences) and the Inquisition and killing of heretics…which I stated that impeccability is not infallibility as guided by the Holy Spirit)

I tried my best to counter all the arguments, as I’ve heard most of these before, but they don’t seem to listen (or want to listen). They are convinced they are right. They asked me why I decided to convert and told them I felt led by the Holy Spirit after reading written accounts and inspired writings. They balked that the Holy Spirit would cause disturbance within the family.

They forbade me from going to Church/Mass. (I don’t live with them — only visiting for the week, so in practice, they can’t really forbid me.)

On the one hand, I have to follow what I believe to be the Church established by Christ. On the other hand, my parents are getting old and not of the best health — I feel bad causing grief and pain. They seem to take this very personally. I was close to telling them I have to follow Jesus even at the expense of parents (per Jesus’ commandment), but I refrained as I thought they would break out in tears and be broken.

Please pray for me that I remain constant in my faith and that one day, they may open their eyes and accept the faith of the Church. I tried to explain to them that I find fuller richness of truth in the Catholic Church from the unbroken 2000 year lineage. But then we’re back to the “They were right in the beginning, but they are corrupt and heretical now” spiel.

I envy you cradle Catholics born into the faith…

HI EIF5A, and thank you for telling us your situation.

I do have a question. I understand that this is the first time you’ve told them about going to a Catholic church; but before that were there one or more times in the past where you told them “I’m now going to a [Episcopal/Methodist/what-the-case-may-have-been] church”? And if so, what did they say at the time?

 

[SpidersfromMars]

If their arguments are just over doctrinal differences between Protestantism and Catholicism then hopefully they will come around somewhat.

I say this because it seems like there’s more hope for finding middle ground in a situation where the opposing parties are at least Christian, rather than non-Christian or even anti-Christian/religion. I could be wrong though; I know how devout some evangelical Protestants are in particular

 

[MSSheBear]

Okay, so you told your parents you are considering becoming Catholic. I assume you are in RCIA. My advice is to be prepared to defend the Church but don’t bring the matter up. CAF is an excellent place to do research.

Also, you said your parents are “older” and that they forbade you to attend Mass. That implies you are an independent adult and they have some serious boundary issues. If they are just in their fifties or sixties they are merely middle-aged and will adjust. My eighty something Baptist mother dealt with it pretty well. I turned my cell phone off on the Thursday before the Easter Vigil through the Easter Vigil (although I did check messages) just so she couldn’t develop a sudden health problem. She didn’t but she still isn’t happy about my conversion.

You might want to keep a low profile about joining the Church.: Good luck and I wll be praying for you. signofcross:

 

[EIF5A]

Thank you everyone for your prayer and support.

They said they worried that I might convert to the Mormon church or become a Jehovah’s witness but that they never would have thought I would go to the Catholic Church. (Really? It’s more conceivable that I would become a Mormon?) When I told them before that I went to an AoG-affiliated church, they weren’t thrilled about that but they accepted it.

The only argument I hadn’t heard before was “Catholics changed the Ten Commandments, so they are heretical.” I did a quick Google search (which led me back to the CAF Apologetics section) and found that commandment 1 and 2 are combined instead of separated…which makes more sense because the commandment is about idolatry and worshipping false images, not the making of images, per se. Then I got the whole thing about statues, kneeling, bowing, etc.

I don’t understand why “believing in Jesus” is sufficient. Of course, it’s necessary. But there’s more to faith than just believing. There’s a million different ways to fail and veer off path and through the teachings of the unbroken Catholic Church and the lives, writings, and prayers of saints who have gone before us, we have a more confident way of following Jesus. And Our Lady will help us. It’s even written in Scripture that there’s spiritual milk and meat. Sure, we can survive off milk, but wouldn’t God want us to grow in spiritual maturity? I don’t mean to be inflammatory, but I view my Protestant upbringing as milk — learning the basic tenets of faith and believing in God who became man to redeem us from hell.

I refuted every single point they brought up, but they just keep repeating them. Hello? Are you even listening? Then they brought up the Anglican church and how they separated from the Church, which is an alleged counterpoint against my bringing up numerous Protestant denominations that have sprung when someone didn’t like a particular interpretation of the Bible. They separated because a king wanted a divorce. That’s not even a valid point.

See what I have to deal with?

They mentioned setting up an appointment for me to talk to a very learned [Protestant] pastor. Even if it does happen, I have no intention of wavering in my faith which has been fuller in the Catholic tradition. My mother is especially upset because she had been praying for me all my life, and then I decide to join the Catholic Church. I told her maybe I’m joining the true Church because of her prayers. Then she got even more upset and I changed topics…

But I did get a chance to reflect a little on why I decided to convert. I’m not sure it’s a good reason. I read a few books and just felt right about what the words were saying. IMHO, the Holy Spirit led me to this inclination, but I cannot say and don’t want to attribute to Him what He did not inspire.

They were little things: Sayings of the Desert Fathers (affirmed the Real Presence of the Eucharist), The Dialogue by St. Catherine of Siena (affirmed the Real Presence, Church authority and priestly authority, intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary who by deference to His Son, God allows Our Lady to protect us from demons), documentary on nuns who worked in a leper colony (in Louisiana?), story of St. Francis of Assisi, the lack of authority figure in Protestant churches, saintly writings about piety and growth in morality and practical ways of living, etc.

I was flipping through the channels last night and came across a Spanish Rosary. It was 3/4 of the way in, but I prayed with them. I hope Our Lady can intercede for us.

 

[doormouse73]

@ EIF5A

i am a cradle Catholic,and there is nothing to envy at all.you have what i personally would call the Holy spirit of the true Church running in your veins…

keep up the great work and sacrifice,it will be hard very hard at times.but the Holy spirit will love you and guide you.
ps… you are in my prayers and thoughts…

this is for dronald… from post number 9*… that post really did warm my heart,thank you,and the post was not for me.

 

[JRKH]

Thank you everyone for your prayer and support.

They said they worried that I might convert to the Mormon church or become a Jehovah’s witness but that they never would have thought I would go to the Catholic Church. (Really? It’s more conceivable that I would become a Mormon?)

hhmmmm…Don’t know what to make of that. Probably best to just let that one pass…

When I told them before that I went to an AoG-affiliated church, they weren’t thrilled about that but they accepted it.

At least this illustrates that you were open in your searching…

The only argument I hadn’t heard before was “Catholics changed the Ten Commandments, so they are heretical.” I did a quick Google search (which led me back to the CAF Apologetics section) and found that commandment 1 and 2 are combined instead of separated…which makes more sense because the commandment is about idolatry and worshipping false images, not the making of images, per se. Then I got the whole thing about statues, kneeling, bowing, etc.

Good for you. The main thing here is to keep being firm and kind in your explanations. You are doing great.

I don’t understand why “believing in Jesus” is sufficient. Of course, it’s necessary. But there’s more to faith than just believing. There’s a million different ways to fail and veer off path and through the teachings of the unbroken Catholic Church and the lives, writings, and prayers of saints who have gone before us, we have a more confident way of following Jesus. And Our Lady will help us. It’s even written in Scripture that there’s spiritual milk and meat. Sure, we can survive off milk, but wouldn’t God want us to grow in spiritual maturity? I don’t mean to be inflammatory, but I view my Protestant upbringing as milk — learning the basic tenets of faith and believing in God who became man to redeem us from hell.

You’ve hit the nail on the head here…
“believing in Jesus” IS sufficient…but the trick is to recognize and embrace all that it means to believe in Jesus. Jesus Himself said that not all who cry “Lord Lord” will enter the kingdom…So obviously there is more involved than just belief.

I refuted every single point they brought up, but they just keep repeating them. Hello? Are you even listening?

I’d say they are listening - but right now it is with an ear that seeks a way to refute what you are saying. It is not really with a receptive ear. That will come later when they see how happy and spiritually well fed you are. Also - over time - as they replay conversations in their heads they may come to realize how well your arguments hold together…just be patient and consistent.

Then they brought up the Anglican church and how they separated from the Church, which is an alleged counterpoint against my bringing up numerous Protestant denominations that have sprung when someone didn’t like a particular interpretation of the Bible. They separated because a king wanted a divorce. That’s not even a valid point.

- - This particular avenue of argument - while unavoidable - is indeed frustrating. Of course this argument really comes down to the matter of authority.

See what I have to deal with?

Yup - - Glad we can be here for you.

They mentioned setting up an appointment for me to talk to a very learned [Protestant] pastor. Even if it does happen, I have no intention of wavering in my faith which has been fuller in the Catholic tradition.

Well - the meeting could be either very short - or very interesting…

My mother is especially upset because she had been praying for me all my life, and then I decide to join the Catholic Church. I told her maybe I’m joining the true Church because of her prayers. Then she got even more upset and I changed topics…

Your poor mother. Keep praying that she will come to understand. Love her all the more for her concern - even if misplaced.

But I did get a chance to reflect a little on why I decided to convert. I’m not sure it’s a good reason. I read a few books and just felt right about what the words were saying. IMHO, the Holy Spirit led me to this inclination, but I cannot say and don’t want to attribute to Him what He did not inspire.

They were little things: Sayings of the Desert Fathers (affirmed the Real Presence of the Eucharist), The Dialogue by St. Catherine of Siena (affirmed the Real Presence, Church authority and priestly authority, intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary who by deference to His Son, God allows Our Lady to protect us from demons), documentary on nuns who worked in a leper colony (in Louisiana?), story of St. Francis of Assisi, the lack of authority figure in Protestant churches, saintly writings about piety and growth in morality and practical ways of living, etc.

Little things are important things. The more you look into the matters you will see how well they hang together. I can’t say just how the Holy Spirit is working in these things, but I’ve little doubt that He is.

God Bless

Peace
James

 

[iepuras]

Thank you everyone for your prayer and support.

They said they worried that I might convert to the Mormon church or become a Jehovah’s witness but that they never would have thought I would go to the Catholic Church. (Really? It’s more conceivable that I would become a Mormon?) When I told them before that I went to an AoG-affiliated church, they weren’t thrilled about that but they accepted it.

The only argument I hadn’t heard before was “Catholics changed the Ten Commandments, so they are heretical.” I did a quick Google search (which led me back to the CAF Apologetics section) and found that commandment 1 and 2 are combined instead of separated…which makes more sense because the commandment is about idolatry and worshipping false images, not the making of images, per se. Then I got the whole thing about statues, kneeling, bowing, etc.

I don’t understand why “believing in Jesus” is sufficient. Of course, it’s necessary. But there’s more to faith than just believing. There’s a million different ways to fail and veer off path and through the teachings of the unbroken Catholic Church and the lives, writings, and prayers of saints who have gone before us, we have a more confident way of following Jesus. And Our Lady will help us. It’s even written in Scripture that there’s spiritual milk and meat. Sure, we can survive off milk, but wouldn’t God want us to grow in spiritual maturity? I don’t mean to be inflammatory, but I view my Protestant upbringing as milk — learning the basic tenets of faith and believing in God who became man to redeem us from hell.

I refuted every single point they brought up, but they just keep repeating them. Hello? Are you even listening? Then they brought up the Anglican church and how they separated from the Church, which is an alleged counterpoint against my bringing up numerous Protestant denominations that have sprung when someone didn’t like a particular interpretation of the Bible. They separated because a king wanted a divorce. That’s not even a valid point.

See what I have to deal with?

They mentioned setting up an appointment for me to talk to a very learned [Protestant] pastor. Even if it does happen, I have no intention of wavering in my faith which has been fuller in the Catholic tradition. My mother is especially upset because she had been praying for me all my life, and then I decide to join the Catholic Church. I told her maybe I’m joining the true Church because of her prayers. Then she got even more upset and I changed topics…

But I did get a chance to reflect a little on why I decided to convert. I’m not sure it’s a good reason. I read a few books and just felt right about what the words were saying. IMHO, the Holy Spirit led me to this inclination, but I cannot say and don’t want to attribute to Him what He did not inspire.

They were little things: Sayings of the Desert Fathers (affirmed the Real Presence of the Eucharist), The Dialogue by St. Catherine of Siena (affirmed the Real Presence, Church authority and priestly authority, intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary who by deference to His Son, God allows Our Lady to protect us from demons), documentary on nuns who worked in a leper colony (in Louisiana?), story of St. Francis of Assisi, the lack of authority figure in Protestant churches, saintly writings about piety and growth in morality and practical ways of living, etc.

I was flipping through the channels last night and came across a Spanish Rosary. It was 3/4 of the way in, but I prayed with them. I hope Our Lady can intercede for us.

Good luck on your journey and good luck with your parents. It ain’t easy!

At least you aren’t becoming Mormon! Unfortunately for a handful of Protestants, becoming Catholic can be as bad as becoming Mormon. I have friends in RCIA who left the Baptist church to become Catholic and their parents think it is worse than becoming Mormon. I still have a hard time understanding that one.

I left Mormonism earlier this year and it has been a struggle dealing with my parents. We don’t talk religion anymore. My parents asked why I left and when I told them, it was like I as talking to a brick wall. They feel that I am rejecting them because I am rejecting Mormonism. My parents are from a very anti-Catholic generation, so they would have an easier time if I was agnostic or atheist rather than becoming Catholic.

Be glad that your parents are talking to you. My parents barely talk to me anymore. My mom still talks to me, but they haven’t invited us over nor have they wanted to come inside our home (they live 5 minutes away). I am not sure how the holidays are even going to work. sigh

Hang in there. Time does heal wounds. Even though it may take time, it does get better. Just know that you are not the only one out there dealing with this.

 

[jadamo]

Welcome home to the Catholic faith! I am a cradle Catholic, but like most cradle Catholics, I didn’t fully understand my beliefs until I was finally questioned and basically attacked. But, unlike most cradle Catholics who cave under an attack, I began researching WHY I believed what I did (I’m very stubborn). May I recommend some books that might help? A good one that is easy to read and simple, yet straight forward, in our beliefs is “Christian, yes-but why Catholic?” by Rev. Joseph M. Esper.
I would also like to recommend a set of three books, The Origins of Catholicism, by Taylor R. Marshall. “The Crucified Rabbi” (Vol. 1), “The Catholic Perspective on Paul” (Vol. II), and “The Eternal City” (Vol III). These three are much deeper in theology, but I found them extremely interesting in defending the Catholic faith. The author was an episcopal priest who converted while studying for his various theology degrees. I truly hope this helps! Good luck with your parents, always pray and always trust in God!

 

[steve_b]

My parents are sola scriptura Protestants of the evangelical persuasion.

Today, I told them I’ve been attending Catholic Mass since July and that I believe the Catholic Church is the Church established by Christ Himself.

In response, I was told:

• The Catholic Church started off right but is now heretical.

So Jesus started the Catholic Church, He couldn’t finish what He started? What’s that say about their faith in Jesus and His promises?

Now look up their “church” to see who founded it and when it was started.
E:

• Mary is worshipped.

strawman.
E:

• The Catholic Church changed the Ten Commandments.

catholic.com/blog/tim-staples/did-the-catholic-church-change-the-ten-commandments
E:

• The Catholic Church added books to the Bible.

The Septuagint is the OT written in Greek. It was finished ~200 B.C.

The council of Rome 382, gave us the canon we have today. 46 OT books + 27 NT books = 73 books

catholic.com/quickquestions/didnt-the-catholic-church-add-to-the-bible
E:

• The Pope claims to be Christ’s representative.

True.

Why would the pope not be included ?

[Luke 10:16 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+10:16&version=RSVCE)
“He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”
E:

• Nothing outside of Scripture should be believed. (Good thing I didn’t mention private revelations.)

they probably meant we are not to contradict what is in scripture.
E:

• That the Real Presence of the Eucharist is just a matter of faith, so whether or not they believed that in the beginning is not relevant.

All this so far is evidence they do not know scripture
E:

• God gave us freedom after resurrection of Christ, so no need to “nitpick” on details.

more evidence they don’t know scripture.
E:

• All you need to do is belief in Jesus to be saved, so why am I complicating things?

Again they show they really don’t know scripture.
E:

• And finally, that I’m disturbing the peace of the family by not following the church that I grew up with and that I’m causing my mother grief.

That’s a good one

Here’s a passage you ought to show them.

Paul wrote this to the Church of Rome. The same Church pope Francis, 266th successor to St Peter presides over.

**Rom 16:**17 I appeal to you, brethren, to take note of those who create dissensions [διχοστασίας (http://bibleapps.com/greek/1370.htm) and difficulties, in opposition to the doctrine which you have been taught; avoid them. 18 For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by fair and flattering words they deceive the hearts of the simple-minded. 19 For while your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you, I would have you wise as to what is good and guileless as to what is evil; 20 then the God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.

I’ll make a point concerning dissension / division down the page

Protestants of all stripes are the ones who dissented from the original Church started by Jesus, disrupting the peace. For the last 500 years they went into serial division among themselves. Divisions on steroids. As Paul said this all comes from Satan not from God. But notice who the God of peace will crush Satan under the feet of? The Church of Rome I can’t wait.
E:

• (Plus other things I can’t remember at the moment…they brought up the 15-7th century corruption of the Church (e.g., indulgences) and the Inquisition and killing of heretics…which I stated that impeccability is not infallibility as guided by the Holy Spirit)

I tried my best to counter all the arguments, as I’ve heard most of these before, but they don’t seem to listen (or want to listen).

The best way to evangelize and witness the faith is to be a fantastic Catholic. Know your faith, and be ready for an answer when asked. We can’t convert anyone. God has to do it.
E:

They are convinced they are right.

Ask them the same questions they expect you to answer. Have them defend protestantism, which by definition is division from Our Lord’s Church. An action btw that is condemned in scripture. We know who started each one of their organizations and when it was started.

• Jesus didn’t start any of them. The Holy Spirit didn’t start any of them. Jesus hates division in what He starts [John 17:20-23 (Douay-Rheims Bible, John Chapter 17)

In Romans 16 above, I draw your attention to the word dissension [διχοστασίας (http://bibleapps.com/greek/1370.htm). It’s the same word used in Gal 5:20. And the consequences for [διχοστασίας (http://bibleapps.com/greek/1370.htm) is

I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. [Gal 5:21]
E:

They asked me why I decided to convert and told them I felt led by the Holy Spirit after reading written accounts and inspired writings. They balked that the Holy Spirit would cause disturbance within the family.

Isn’t that an interesting response coming from Protestants?

prayers ascending for you on your journey.

 

[EIF5A]

Would it be correct to say that Luther didn’t intend to start a new church but only end corrupt practices?

I don’t think I can ever get through to them unless they somehow accept that Christ instituted the authority of the Church with the infallible guidance of the Holy Spirit.

 

[JRKH]

Would it be correct to say that Luther didn’t intend to start a new church but only end corrupt practices?

Yes it would be correct to say this - at least in the beginning.

I don’t think I can ever get through to them unless they somehow accept that Christ instituted the authority of the Church with the infallible guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Perhaps this will help…I wrote it some time back…

After all of the trading back and forth of this and that verse, meaning, interpretation translation etc…the ultimate question will have to be - which of our personal, prayerful, “Spirit Guided” - and yet conflicting understandings is correct? How do we resolve the issue? Who has the authority to determine truth from error?

What does Scripture say???

Scripture says it is “The Church”

The Church is the pillar and bulwark of Truth (1 Tim 3:15)
The Church has authority to bind and loose - whatever (Mt 16:17-19) (Mt 18:15-18)
The Church settles arguments between distant church communities in a wonderful example of the instructions given in Mt 18…(Acts 15)
The Church is the vehicle by which God reveals His Wisdom to the world. (Eph 3:8-12)
Christ and the Apostles exhort the faithful to unity…to be of one mind

John 17:20-21
20 "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Rom 15:5-6
5 May the God of endurance and encouragement grant you to live in such harmony with one another, in accord with Christ Jesus, 6 that together you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Cor 1:10
I appeal to you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no dissensions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.

2 Cor 13:11
Finally, brothers, rejoice. Aim for restoration, comfort one another, agree with one another, live in peace; and the God of love and peace will be with you.

Php 1:27
Only let your manner of life be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving side by side for the faith of the gospel,

1 Pet 3:8
Finally, all of you, have unity of mind, sympathy, brotherly love, a tender heart, and a humble mind.

All of these calls to unity, along with the instructions in the Gospel of Matthew and the example in Acts as well as Paul’s presenting his teachings to Peter and others to assure they are correct, the Church being the Pillar etc…All point clearly to doctrinal unity within a visible and authoritative Church.

Sola Scriptura adherents can offer nothing scriptural to oppose the above. Those who hold to the more loose idea of local independent communities do so without scriptural support. They seek to tell us that we are reading Scripture wrong…but this just leads us back to the original proposition - that we need someone to tell us who is right and who is wrong.

I say this with confidence because I have repeatedly asked protestant apologists to counter this evidence with “equally clear and compelling” evidence for what I call the “Protestant model” of locally independent church communities based on SS.
They just simply cannot do it…

Even if we take the Catholic Church being right out of the equation - we are still left with Scripture pointing to unity - to a councilior model to resolve doctrinal differences. Something that the protestants consistently do not do.

Peace
James

 

[thequeen]

Don’t do that! We converts tend to value our faith more than most cradle Catholics, and we tend to be more “orthodox”. (of course, there are some cradle Catholics who are very fervent and very orthodox, and could be envied ).

As you spend time in the Catholic Church you will be surprised by the number of people you meet who you assume to be cradle Catholics only to discover that they are converts.

I will pray for you and your family.

I am one of those converts from a pentecostal church of god back ground,

 

[Razanir]

Would it be correct to say that Luther didn’t intend to start a new church but only end corrupt practices?

At least at first. Most of his 95 theses are good points that the Catholic Church agrees with. And in fact, I’ve heard it said that if he’d stopped there, he’d probably be heralded as a saintly reformer and ender of corruption today. But alas, he went too far, committed hubris, and wound up sparking the Protestant Reformation.

 

[steve_b]

Would it be correct to say that Luther didn’t intend to start a new church but only end corrupt practices?

He knew exactly what he was doing.

He was given time by the pope to correct his errors but he wouldn’t. He was then excommunicated, and he could care less about it…

Luther, Exsurge Domine, Bull of Leo X

then came
Decet Romanum Pontificem

Notice the dates. Luther was given time to respond and he didn’t.

 

[SecretaryMonday]

They mentioned setting up an appointment for me to talk to a very learned [Protestant] pastor.

You are not under any obligation to show up and defend yourself to someone else’s pastor. (You know that, I’m sure. ) The choice is up to you. Sometimes, your best argument is your joy and peace, so don’t let anybody take these from you.

From my limited experience as a convert, here are some things I have learned about defending the faith: stay on topic. As another poster suggested, stick to one difficulty and try to explain it in depth, rather than trying to take on 15 problems superficially. It is common to have a whole list thrown at you at once.

Rather than worrying too much about individual disagreements, try to figure out if they have a common source. Bring up the source rather than the little niggling symptoms. For example, if someone is upset about 10 things Catholics believe about Mary, it might be pointless to try to explain the 10 things unless you establish a foundation that, no matter how superhuman a creature might be, they are still made of nothing and are infinitely separate from the Creator, and all of their abilities are gifts from God and not from themselves. (As a new Catholic, when I first read True Devotion, I got to the quote within the first few pages that claims that Mary is dust, made out of nothing, and I thought “Is this guy a Protestant? Because this sounds insulting compared to the reverence that Catholics have for Mary!” Even though I already knew this in theory, it still had not sunk into my understanding that Mary was merely a creature made of dust and nothing.)

Be as kind and patient as possible. What seems easy for you to understand may be an insurmountable obstacle for someone else.

You may win a debate, but it is the Holy Spirit who converts souls; you should do your best, but it really isn’t up to you.

 

[Peter_J]

Thank you everyone for your prayer and support.

They said they worried that I might convert to the Mormon church or become a Jehovah’s witness but that they never would have thought I would go to the Catholic Church. (Really? It’s more conceivable that I would become a Mormon?) When I told them before that I went to an AoG-affiliated church, they weren’t thrilled about that but they accepted it.

The only argument I hadn’t heard before was “Catholics changed the Ten Commandments, so they are heretical.” I did a quick Google search (which led me back to the CAF Apologetics section) and found that commandment 1 and 2 are combined instead of separated…which makes more sense because the commandment is about idolatry and worshipping false images, not the making of images, per se. Then I got the whole thing about statues, kneeling, bowing, etc.

I don’t understand why “believing in Jesus” is sufficient. Of course, it’s necessary. But there’s more to faith than just believing. There’s a million different ways to fail and veer off path and through the teachings of the unbroken Catholic Church and the lives, writings, and prayers of saints who have gone before us, we have a more confident way of following Jesus. And Our Lady will help us. It’s even written in Scripture that there’s spiritual milk and meat. Sure, we can survive off milk, but wouldn’t God want us to grow in spiritual maturity? I don’t mean to be inflammatory, but I view my Protestant upbringing as milk — learning the basic tenets of faith and believing in God who became man to redeem us from hell.

I refuted every single point they brought up, but they just keep repeating them. Hello? Are you even listening? Then they brought up the Anglican church and how they separated from the Church, which is an alleged counterpoint against my bringing up numerous Protestant denominations that have sprung when someone didn’t like a particular interpretation of the Bible. They separated because a king wanted a divorce. That’s not even a valid point.

See what I have to deal with?

They mentioned setting up an appointment for me to talk to a very learned [Protestant] pastor. Even if it does happen, I have no intention of wavering in my faith which has been fuller in the Catholic tradition. My mother is especially upset because she had been praying for me all my life, and then I decide to join the Catholic Church. I told her maybe I’m joining the true Church because of her prayers. Then she got even more upset and I changed topics…

But I did get a chance to reflect a little on why I decided to convert. I’m not sure it’s a good reason. I read a few books and just felt right about what the words were saying. IMHO, the Holy Spirit led me to this inclination, but I cannot say and don’t want to attribute to Him what He did not inspire.

They were little things: Sayings of the Desert Fathers (affirmed the Real Presence of the Eucharist), The Dialogue by St. Catherine of Siena (affirmed the Real Presence, Church authority and priestly authority, intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary who by deference to His Son, God allows Our Lady to protect us from demons), documentary on nuns who worked in a leper colony (in Louisiana?), story of St. Francis of Assisi, the lack of authority figure in Protestant churches, saintly writings about piety and growth in morality and practical ways of living, etc.

I was flipping through the channels last night and came across a Spanish Rosary. It was 3/4 of the way in, but I prayed with them. I hope Our Lady can intercede for us.

I guess your parents are among the many protestants who put way to much emphasis on how Catholics and protestants are different.

This may or may not be helpful to you practically, but I can’t help thinking of something Dr. Anthony Dragani wrote. It starts out with this interesting anecdote …

Regarding the Papacy, it is a profound blessing from God. Unfortunately, WE Catholics sometimes present it in the worst light possible. Allow me to give you an example:

A year or so ago I was eating dinner with a fellow Catholic. We were discussing matters of religion, and an Asian gentleman heard the conversation. He politely introduced himself, and wanted to learn what Catholicism was. He was a recent immigrant from Asia, and was nominally Buddhist. He asked us what Catholics believe. Before I had a chance, my friend answered:

“We believe in the Pope! Everyone must obey him in order to be saved.”

This line of conversation went on for several minutes, with my friend emphasizing the necessity of “submission to Rome.” There was no mention of Jesus or the Gospel message. This Asian man was noticeably disturbed, and quickly excused himself before I could get more than a word in. That was a lost opportunity.

and goes on to discuss how a Catholic should discuss the papacy. east2west.org/ecumenism.htm#Pope As I said, I don’t know whether it will appear helpful to you, but it goes to show that many Catholics (like many protestants) put too much emphasis on how Catholics and protestants are different.

 

[EIF5A]

My mom is still crying every day.

I just don’t understand why she’s taking it so personally.

I’m starting to doubt whether I did the right thing in telling my parents. I hope and pray that the emotional wounds will heal over time.

Not sure why I feel so adamant about converting to the Catholic Church even in face of family opposition. My excuse is I want to follow Christ, but if I were truly zealous, I would not sin as much as I do or give in to temptation. I just wish I had certainty that my intent was right before God in telling them…

Perhaps I should have prayed more and wait for God’s timing instead of negligently deciding to drop the bomb. I figured sooner the better…

Holy Spirit, please change their hearts and grant them understanding that my faith must be nourished through the Church.

 

[EIF5A]

My other question is: if I have a desire to be Catholic but cannot because my mother will suffer emotional and physical breakdown if I do, can I decide to convert after my parents have passed? Is that presumption and inconstancy or some other sin of lack of faith and following Christ? Can I still be saved if I have a desire but cannot fulfill full conversion due to this circumstance?

This whole experience has been a painful tug-of-war, and if this is a test of my faith, I fear I might fail.

If my mother would disown me, I can deal with that. But I almost feel like she’s holding me hostage by becoming an emotional disaster and who knows what she would do to herself. She hasn’t really eaten or slept in days. She’s had a hard life and the only thing keeping her going was the belief and hope that our family would be united in faith.

One would think I became atheist or something.

I really resent the Protestant reformation.

 

[JRKH]

Your dilemma is a tough one for sure. There is so much to consider and it’s hard for us to give too much advice since we do not personally know the people involved.
There are practical and logical answers to some of your questions - like…where you ask:

My other question is: if I have a desire to be Catholic but cannot because my mother will suffer emotional and physical breakdown if I do, can I decide to convert after my parents have passed? Is that presumption and inconstancy or some other sin of lack of faith and following Christ? Can I still be saved if I have a desire but cannot fulfill full conversion due to this circumstance?

I was reminded of the Gospel…Luke 9:57-62
57 As they were going along the road, a man said to him, “I will follow you wherever you go.” 58 And Jesus said to him, “Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man has nowhere to lay his head.” 59 To another he said, “Follow me.” But he said, “Lord, let me first go and bury my father.” 60 But he said to him, “Leave the dead to bury their own dead; but as for you, go and proclaim the kingdom of God.” 61 Another said, “I will follow you, Lord; but let me first say farewell to those at my home.” 62 Jesus said to him, “No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.”

However, such “logical” advice is not always practical when one is in the midst of discerning and one’s family is also Christian - but not Catholic.

One thing to keep in mind perhaps is that, even though you have determined to become Catholic, it will likely take some time before you can be officially and fully brought into the Church. Right now you are “inquiring” - then you will be a “candidate” and finally will be confirmed into the Church. - At least that is the normal course.

In the long run - you cannot take responsibility for your mother’s thoughts and actions in this regard. You must do what you believe to be right and in accord with God’s call to you.

To put this in a more practical view - consider the case where a person wants to go into one line of work but the parent is determined that they should do something else. Should an artist be a doctor just to please the parent? How about in terms of marriage…Should a person marry who they choose - or who their mother chooses??
Is the matter of your faith less important than the selection of spouse or career?

For all practical purposes - It is my belief that it would not matter when you told your parents…you would likely have to deal with this reaction. It is unfortunate…but it is the reality of the situation.
I’m sure that your mother’s grief is quite real - and you should love her for it. She is worried about your soul as any good mother should be. It is now up to you to demonstrate through your life that her fears are unfounded. Over time her wounds will heal - salved by the joy she sees in you and the great Christian Love that pours from you.

Finally - addressing your concerns about continuing to sin…Well that’s always a toughie…as we all wish to be better, to become more holy - more saintly.
But remember that you are at the beginning of this journey. You are learning many lessons and it will take time to apply those lessons and to embrace, internalize and incorporate them into your personality.
One of the great things about Catholicism IS this idea of the journey into holiness. This recognition of our conversion takes time.
If I may offer - one of the meanings of the Greek “baptizo” is to immerse over time (as in making pickles). This immersion over time causes a change - in the case of the pickle, the vinegar brine preserves the cucumber. In the case of the Christian, the immersion in the Holy Spirit gradually changes us. Holiness is infused in us so that we gradually become more holy.

All of this said - I think that it is important that you have the advice of a priest at this time. Is there one who can talk to about your family issues and your doubts about your reasons to convert?

Peace
James