Finding healing and acceptance after same-sex love collides with religion

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I believe there is confusion within the CC that SSA is a disorder. The CC pretty much coined the term intrinsic disorder soon after the APA dropped SSA as a disorder. Outside of the CC the term has no meaning. Now if all sex outside of marriage is labeled sinful but not a disorder then the question arises as to why does the CC need to target a particular sin and call it disordered? What need does it serve and for whom?
The Catholic Church also labels masturbation, fornication and adultery as intrinsically disordered, the issue is that the laity doesn’t seem to realize this and acts as if only gay sex is intrinsically disordered which changes the character of the discussion.
You contradicted yourself here. To “coin the term” means to invent it. As you point out, the APA used the term previously. It was also called a sexual perversion. What do you call someone who feels sexually attracted to people of the same sex but does not act on that attraction? Especially those who do not want to be associated with the “gay” community? SSA serves as a succinct way of acknowledging the orientation without making assumptions as to behavior.
He did not in fact contradict himself as the APA and the Catholic Church use different terms.

The term “gay” does not mean that one is associated or desires to be associated with “the ‘gay’ community”.
Other types of sex outside of marriage are simply sin. They are driven by attraction that is not objectively disordered but is disordered to ones state in life. An unmarried man having sex with an unmarried woman is disordered only because they are unmarried. A married man having sex with a woman not his wife is disordered because of the adultery, not because of the nature of the sexual acts or attractions.

The Church doesn’t label just the sin of homosexual activity “disordered”. It acknowledges that the **attraction **is disordered - literally ordered to the wrong object.
Fornication and adultery are in fact intrinsically disordered.
All I can tell you is its never been a problem in any of our family gatherings. Its not like my daughter and her partner sit on then couch necking the whole time. I have zero chance of having influence on their lives and the lives of their children if I ostracize them. In addition if I start ostracizing my children because they sin there will be no one at my family gatherings-myself included. Should I, for instance, ostracize the daughter who desperately trying to get pregnant via intro vitro fertilization? Or how about the daughter who hasn’t been to Church in years?

We do agree with the core teaching-homosexual behavior is a grievous sin. But it is not an unforgivable sin and it is not a sin over which I am willing to lose my relationship with my daughter over.
Some people here would claim two men holding hands is shoving the gay lifestyle in their face.
 
The Catholic Church also labels masturbation, fornication and adultery as intrinsically disordered, the issue is that the laity doesn’t seem to realize this and acts as if only gay sex is intrinsically disordered which changes the character of the discussion.
That was insightful. Thanks.
 
Yes.
Here’s the longer quote it was taken from that appeared in his interview with the unsavory Lifesite News/Oct 9th, 2014:

“We wouldn’t, if it were another kind of relationship — something that was profoundly disordered and harmful — we wouldn’t expose our children to that relationship, to the direct experience of it. And neither should we do it in the context of a family member who not only suffers from same-sex attraction, but who has chosen to live out that attraction, to act upon it, committing acts which are always and everywhere wrong, evil.”
Let me change your bolding of text.
We wouldn’t, if it were another kind of relationship — something that was profoundly disordered and harmful — we wouldn’t expose our children to that relationship, to the direct experience of it. And neither should we do it in the context of a family member who not only suffers from same-sex attraction, but who has chosen to live out that attraction, to act upon it, committing acts which are always and everywhere wrong, evil.
So he didn’t say homosexuality as such is evil, or that homosexual people are. He said homosexual acts are. AFAIK that’s at the base of the Church’s teaching on homosexuality. Some people will say that difference is insignificant, which is in itself another issue.

And he didn’t say one should shun homosexual family members, but he did speak against inviting son’s or dauther’s gay partner for family gatherings. Remember the context: the married couple at the synod speaking of their friends, whose gay son wanted to bring his homosexual partner for Christmas.
 
It would be beneficial to read the following article that provides a larger context for the issue. A sense of context that should not be easily abandoned because our culture currently flounders in the muck of modern progressive ideology.

edwardfeser.blogspot.ca/2014/10/nudge-nudge-wink-wink.html

Be sure to read the comments!
Decriminalizing homosexuality did not have a Gricean effect though legalizing gay marriage would. Many LGBT people have experienced housing and job discrimination which is why legislation against it is often proposed.
 
Decriminalizing homosexuality did not have a Gricean effect though legalizing gay marriage would. Many LGBT people have experienced housing and job discrimination which is why legislation against it is often proposed.
That is because human beings AS human beings should be treated AS human beings.

Ergo, gay individuals should have equal opportunities to work, housing, etc., BECAUSE they are human beings, NOT because they are gay. The injustice occurred when these rights were taken away from human beings when, AS human beings, they were owed a right to employment and housing. These individuals were NOT owed a right to employment and housing BECAUSE they were gay, however.

To right the injustice meant that gay individuals ought to have had those basic human rights returned to them. Full stop. That is as far as things ought to have gone.

Righting the injustice does not mean they are owed additional rights over and above everyone else. They do not deserve to be accorded special treatment because they are gay, nor a right to impose their beliefs or behaviour by force of law on anyone else.

The Gricean effect comes into play when gay individuals claim to have special rights - to being a “protected” class - not because they are human, but because they are gay. This begs and attempts to circumvent the question of whether the fact they are “gay” ought to give these individuals special rights beyond those accorded to all other human beings.

What makes this a questionable imposition of rights and an instance of special pleading is that accessing these additional rights and protections depends almost entirely on a self-appellation based upon a largely not well-understood - nor objectively determinable - predeliction towards a certain kind of behaviour.

Merely “claiming” these additional rights by declaring oneself “gay” now affords the claimant the right to overturn certain social, business and legal rights of others, to redefine millenniums-old legal precedents, to redefine biological reality, to remove the rights of children to having a mother and a father, and to dictate to others the content of their moral beliefs.

The question never seems to be broached as to whether a mere subjective predilection ought to allow such a dubious claim to such an extensive set of “special” rights far beyond those afforded anyone else. Only in a liberal progressive moral climate - one where individual rights to self-determination supercedes the good of society - would this kind of “hijack” of society by a small minority be permitted. It is the fact that as individuals, too many in progressive liberal societies do not properly understand nor support the good of society - but, in fact, have lost sight of that good, by prioritizing individual rights over the common good - that such commandeering of society as a whole could have taken place.

A proper concern for the continuity and well-being of a healthy human culture would not so easily give the future over to this kind of social manipulation. Social manipulation it certainly is, as can be seen by the effective silencing and ostracism of anyone who even dares to question the soundness of undertaking such massive social changes without allowing the opportunity for sober second thought.
 
That is because human beings AS human beings should be treated AS human beings.

Ergo, gay individuals should have equal opportunities to work, housing, etc., BECAUSE they are human beings, NOT because they are gay. The injustice occurred when these rights were taken away from human beings when, AS human beings, they were owed a right to employment and housing. These individuals were NOT owed a right to employment and housing BECAUSE they were gay, however.

To right the injustice meant that gay individuals ought to have had those basic human rights returned to them. Full stop. That is as far as things ought to have gone.

Righting the injustice does not mean they are owed additional rights over and above everyone else. They do not deserve to be accorded special treatment because they are gay, nor a right to impose their beliefs or behaviour by force of law on anyone else.

The Gricean effect comes into play when gay individuals claim to have special rights - to being a “protected” class - not because they are human, but because they are gay. This begs and attempts to circumvent the question of whether the fact they are “gay” ought to give these individuals special rights beyond those accorded to all other human beings.

What makes this a questionable imposition of rights and an instance of special pleading is that accessing these additional rights and protections depends almost entirely on a self-appellation based upon a largely not well-understood - nor objectively determinable - predeliction towards a certain kind of behaviour.

Merely “claiming” these additional rights by declaring oneself “gay” now affords the claimant the right to overturn certain social, business and legal rights of others, to redefine millenniums-old legal precedents, to redefine biological reality, to remove the rights of children to having a mother and a father, and to dictate to others the content of their moral beliefs.

The question never seems to be broached as to whether a mere subjective predilection ought to allow such a dubious claim to such an extensive set of “special” rights far beyond those afforded anyone else. Only in a liberal progressive moral climate - one where individual rights to self-determination supercedes the good of society - would this kind of “hijack” of society by a small minority be permitted. It is the fact that as individuals, too many in progressive liberal societies do not properly understand nor support the good of society - but, in fact, have lost sight of that good, by prioritizing individual rights over the common good - that such commandeering of society as a whole could have taken place.

A proper concern for the continuity and well-being of a healthy human culture would not so easily give the future over to this kind of social manipulation. Social manipulation it certainly is, as can be seen by the effective silencing and ostracism of anyone who even dares to question the soundness of undertaking such massive social changes without allowing the opportunity for sober second thought.
THIS ^^^

If only those wearing judicial robes and warming legislative seats would have such clarity of thought and wisdom.
 
I’m a bit of devils advocate here. I agree it’s very hurtful to say “you are welcome, your partner is not”. If I was the kid, I wouldn’t go home for Christmas. I’d spend it with my partner, either with his/her family or just the two of us. But still, I don’t think that
I did read that he said that families of gay people should “shun” them. There are no words to describe that tidbit of opinion.:eek:
is an adequate description of what he said.

But still, I don’t think we should say that we should play around with his words, to alter the meaning. He doesn’s speak of orientation - probably he doesn’t think there is such a thing as homosexual orientation. To him, it’s all just sinful acts. That was the mainstream opinion in society up to at least 1950s and probably longer than that.
I’m merely bolding the part he said that was re-quoted in the Washington Post article, not for emphasis…
I did bold to put emphasis on the original context. Since the following sentences were mine, not quoted, I never thought someone would misunderstand my bolding of my own words for emphasis. I was wrong, and I apologise for unclarity.
 
Some recent studies are indicating that rejection by family is not the major issue it is portrayed to be.

winteryknight.wordpress.com/2014/06/09/new-study-relationship-problems-not-family-rejection-leading-cause-of-higher-gay-suicides/

From the article…
While many assume that family rejection is the leading cause of depression among LBGTI individuals, a new study has found that in fact the problem appears to stem predominantly from the higher incidence of relationship problems among homosexuals.
Dr. Delaney Skerrett led a team of researchers from the Australian Institute for Suicide Research and Prevention (AISRAP) in studying suicides in Queensland. He found that a leading cause of suicide among “lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and intersex” (LGBTI) people is stress from their romantic partners.
“We tend to assume that the psychological distress LGBTI people are often going through is due to family rejection. But it seems that’s not so much the case. The conflict seems to be largely related to relationship problems, with partners,” Dr. Skerrett said.
In fact, he said, “The numbers are telling us there’s a general acceptance at the family level,” something he said is “great” and “really heartening!”
Instead, the study, which was published on April 2 in Asia Pacific Psychiatry, found that “LGBT individuals experienced relationship problems more often” than heterosexuals, “with relationship conflict also being more frequent than in non‐LGBT cases.”
That confirms previous studies finding that homosexuals also face higher rates of intimate partner violence than heterosexuals. A 2007 study in the Journal of Urban Health, which is published by the New York Academy of Medicine, found that 32 percent of homosexuals have been abused by at least one partner during their lifetime.
 
That is because human beings AS human beings should be treated AS human beings.

Ergo, gay individuals should have equal opportunities to work, housing, etc., BECAUSE they are human beings, NOT because they are gay. The injustice occurred when these rights were taken away from human beings when, AS human beings, they were owed a right to employment and housing. These individuals were NOT owed a right to employment and housing BECAUSE they were gay, however.

To right the injustice meant that gay individuals ought to have had those basic human rights returned to them. Full stop. That is as far as things ought to have gone.

Righting the injustice does not mean they are owed additional rights over and above everyone else. They do not deserve to be accorded special treatment because they are gay, nor a right to impose their beliefs or behaviour by force of law on anyone else.

**The Gricean effect comes into play when gay individuals claim to have special rights - to being a “protected” class - not because they are human, but because they are gay. This begs and attempts to circumvent the question of whether the fact they are “gay” ought to give these individuals special rights beyond those accorded to all other human beings.
**
What makes this a questionable imposition of rights and an instance of special pleading is that accessing these additional rights and protections depends almost entirely on a self-appellation based upon a largely not well-understood - nor objectively determinable - predeliction towards a certain kind of behaviour.

Merely “claiming” these additional rights by declaring oneself “gay” now affords the claimant the right to overturn certain social, business and legal rights of others, to redefine millenniums-old legal precedents, to redefine biological reality, to remove the rights of children to having a mother and a father, and to dictate to others the content of their moral beliefs.

The question never seems to be broached as to whether a mere subjective predilection ought to allow such a dubious claim to such an extensive set of “special” rights far beyond those afforded anyone else. Only in a liberal progressive moral climate - one where individual rights to self-determination supercedes the good of society - would this kind of “hijack” of society by a small minority be permitted. It is the fact that as individuals, too many in progressive liberal societies do not properly understand nor support the good of society - but, in fact, have lost sight of that good, by prioritizing individual rights over the common good - that such commandeering of society as a whole could have taken place.

A proper concern for the continuity and well-being of a healthy human culture would not so easily give the future over to this kind of social manipulation. Social manipulation it certainly is, as can be seen by the effective silencing and ostracism of anyone who even dares to question the soundness of undertaking such massive social changes without allowing the opportunity for sober second thought.
Just to clarify, banning the firing of someone solely because they are gay is giving them special rights?
 
Yes.
Here’s the longer quote it was taken from that appeared in his interview with the unsavory Lifesite News/Oct 9th, 2014:

“We wouldn’t, if it were another kind of relationship — something that was profoundly disordered and harmful — we wouldn’t expose our children to that relationship, to the direct experience of it. And neither should we do it in the context of a family member who not only suffers from same-sex attraction, but who has chosen to live out that attraction, to act upon it, committing acts which are always and everywhere wrong, evil.”

.
I think it sends out the wrong message to people with ssa or gender issues and their families. It’s been said here by a poster that they would not shun their child from their home because of the way they choose to live. Why would the church tell people to not allow their families to interact with each other because of sins that are peoples own sin between them and God? We all don’t sit alone the tablet and tell one another what sins we have committed, being in a ssa relationship can be obvious, but not always and so some people and child may not be aware of a person/s relationship.
In any case, children learn great lessons about people who are “different”, but it seems some will think that child will be subjected to some horror just by being in the presence of a ss couple.
 
Just to clarify, banning the firing of someone solely because they are gay is giving them special rights?
What I said:
Ergo, gay individuals should have equal opportunities to work, housing, etc., BECAUSE they are human beings, NOT because they are gay.
Equal opportunities to work means you cannot fire any person, gay or otherwise, for any reason that would not warrant the firing of any other “human” employee.

However, marriage is a distinct reality from which self-proclaimed “gay” individuals essentially exclude themselves based upon the nature of what marriage is. This is obvious from the fact that gay individuals must redefine what marriage is in order to give them special status - so a redefinition is an instance of special pleading.
 
What I said:

Equal opportunities to work means you cannot fire any person, gay or otherwise, for any reason that would not warrant the firing of any other “human” employee.

However, marriage is a distinct reality from which self-proclaimed “gay” individuals essentially exclude themselves based upon the nature of what marriage is. This is obvious from the fact that gay individuals must redefine what marriage is in order to give them special status - so a redefinition is an instance of special pleading.
So then how is it wrong to prevent someone from infringing upon their equal opportunity to work, housing etc.?
 
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