Finding Saint Francis

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joanofarc2008 said:
Coming in late - I am currently starting my formation for the third time due to a series of moves - I am in Inquiry. I have been in formation for a period of 20 months. I am currently under the new formation program. So I may be able to provide a little insight on that.
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Ah, excellent! You are using the For Up to Now program?
 
Marauder said:
The methods of formation have always varied fraternity to fraternity. In the recent past there was the primary formation materials that most fraternities used, but there were other books that were used by different fraternities. That is what is so good about this new book is they are trying to make sure everyone uses the same materials. Of course there will probably be some stubborn formation teams, but that is the beauty of having the internet now, you can know about this stuff. When I was in initial formation I had to find out all this information on my own. That is one of the reasons I started the Franciscan Spirituality social group on here as a place to allow people to find and talk about things in the process.

As for whether you will only get pieces of the FUN book during formation as you go. At least in the fraternities I have been associated with, the process was that you paid for and got the entire book at once. It covered the entire process from Inquiry through candidacy. This allowed you either to just read the chapter of the month for formation, or if you were real interested in other things that you weren’t covering yet you could read ahead or read whatever interested you. This also allowed you to skip around a little if something made more sense to have a different time then in the exact order in the book. As an example if there is a chapter that talked a lot about Francis’ death you might want to read that section in October instead of the month it would have occurred if you followed the chapters exactly.

Also don’t forget that if you enter formation right now (remember that you have to visit for at least 3 months before you can become an inquirer) they still might not be using the new FUN manuals. Just like the church as a whole, it does take a little time for things to make it out to the individual fraternities and the individual fraternities to come up with how they will deal with it.
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When we’ve used paperback commercially available books, yes, I’ve bought them to use. When they used xerox copies, they gave me them as we went, if I remember correctly. I’m in a very small fraternity and we’re thrifty. And I was professed 15 years ago, so my formation was a little short on detail. I started along about the same time the internet got going publicly and very few people were on it yet. I’ve had to dig up a lot of information myself. Thank goodness for the internet!

I wonder if there will be a copy of the student part of the FUN manual that we’ll be able to buy? [Some of it looks like instructions for the formation director, if you look at the table of contents.]
 
iloveangels said:
When we’ve used paperback commercially available books, yes, I’ve bought them to use. When they used xerox copies, they gave me them as we went. I’m in a very small fraternity and we’re thrifty. And I was professed 15 years ago, so my formation was a little short on detail. I’ve had to dig up a lot of information myself.

I wonder if there will be a copy of the student part of the FUN manual that we’ll be able to buy? [Some of it looks like instructions for the formation director, if you look at the table of contents.]
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Based on your saying you used “paperback commercially available books” it sounds like your formation team wasn’t using the primary SFO training manuals. The one I used was just like the new FUN stuff in that it was a big loose-leaf folder. Of course the formation team would always add to what was actually in the book and supliment it with additional information.

I am sure the entire FUN manual (student addition) will be available for purchase. The big question will be whether the fraternity you attend will use it now, or in the future.
 
Marauder said:
Based on your saying you used “paperback commercially available books” it sounds like your formation team wasn’t using the primary SFO training manuals. The one I used was just like the new FUN stuff in that it was a big loose-leaf folder. Of course the formation team would always add to what was actually in the book and supliment it with additional information.

I am sure the entire FUN manual (student addition) will be available for purchase. The big question will be whether the fraternity you attend will use it now, or in the future.
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I think we sort of were. This was 15 years ago. I remember a large binder of formation materials coming out maybe 10-12 years ago. I didn’t use that, no. I used some much older stuff I think. I was professed after the rule was revised but just as the practical parts of the regionalization was happening, and before some of the constitutions were complete, I think. Things have changed a lot since then.

I can’t even remember what paperback book we used in addition to the xerox copies. It was a book about St. Francis from a bookstore. We had to read an account of his life. Much of the readiness for profession was based on other things, I think.

I’d love to get a copy of this new manual.
 
joanofarc2008 said:
Coming in late - I am currently starting my formation for the third time due to a series of moves - I am in Inquiry. I have been in formation for a period of 20 months. I am currently under the new formation program. So I may be able to provide a little insight on that.
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Hi, joan! Well, this is exciting, you can compare the different approaches to formation.
 
Marauder said:
To those that keep asking what Brother JR, he is OSF or Order of Saint Francis. It is basically on of the many Third Order Regular branches.
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I don’t think the question is so much about the resume of a specific forum poster as about the OSF being Anglican and a member identifying himself as Catholic. osffranciscans.com/

Trying to sort all of this out, the OSF, being Anglican, seems as if it is unlikely to be part of the T.O.R. But then, maybe it is, it’s hard to tell, but it doesn’t look like it to me. These different groups are confusing to many, I think. I should try to figure that out. Maybe I’ll find a chart or something…
 
Julia_Mae said:
I don’t think the question is so much about the resume of a specific forum poster as about the OSF being Anglican and a member identifying himself as Catholic. osffranciscans.com/

Trying to sort all of this out, the OSF, being Anglican, seems as if it is unlikely to be part of the T.O.R. But then, maybe it is, it’s hard to tell, but it doesn’t look like it to me. These different groups are confusing to many, I think. I should try to figure that out. Maybe I’ll find a chart or something…
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No, no, don’t jump to conclusions. There’s a ton about this you don’t know yet. I can tell. Relax.

If you want to know more about the SFO, read the documents at NAFRA, and then call the local SFO and talk to them.
 
Julia_Mae said:
I don’t think the question is so much about the resume of a specific forum poster as about the OSF being Anglican and a member identifying himself as Catholic. osffranciscans.com/

Trying to sort all of this out, the OSF, being Anglican, seems as if it is unlikely to be part of the T.O.R. But then, maybe it is, it’s hard to tell, but it doesn’t look like it to me. These different groups are confusing to many, I think. I should try to figure that out. Maybe I’ll find a chart or something…
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Brother JR will have to explain the details and whether they have a link to his group but he isn’t part of the Anglican group that goes by OSF. He is part of a Catholic Franciscan Order. He has explained it before but as you know he writes a lot on here and finding that specific post isn’t that easy.
 
Marauder said:
Brother JR will have to explain the details and whether they have a link to his group but he isn’t part of the Anglican group that goes by OSF…
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I actually don’t care, I mean, about a specific person. I was mostly interested in the structure of all these organizations. When I started this search a couple weeks ago, I was a bit overwhelmed by the Franciscan sites and orders and groups and… I was really surprised to t find the Ecumenical Franciscans. Srsly? Is it “official?” Wait - what’s “official?” So I am in a leaning curve here. I think most who start to discern are confused by all the different groups and arrangements.

Good to have all these references in a thread, I think.
 
Julia_Mae said:
I actually don’t care, I mean, about a specific person. I was mostly interested in the structure of all these organizations. When I started this search a couple weeks ago, I was a bit overwhelmed by the Franciscan sites and orders and groups and… I was really surprised to t find the Ecumenical Franciscans. Srsly? Is it “official?” Wait - what’s “official?” So I am in a leaning curve here. I think most who start to discern are confused by all the different groups and arrangements.

Good to have all these references in a thread, I think.
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As far as I know all the Ecumencial, non-denominational, or non-Catholic groups are unofficial as far as the Catholic Church is concerned.

Of course the Anglican church recognizes Franciscan Orders but the Catholic church doesn’t. In many Franciscan minds you can’t be outside the Catholic church and still be a Franciscan. St. Francis stressed being loyal to the Church, the Pope,and his bishops. Would a Catholic Franciscan work with an respect a non-Catholic “Franciscan”. Yes similar to the Pope having respect for members of other faiths, but like we can still view them as not having a fullness of the Truth.

Yes it is confusing, it isn’t just confusing to those just starting to discern.
 
Marauder said:
Of course the Anglican church recognizes Franciscan Orders but the Catholic church doesn’t. In many Franciscan minds you can’t be outside the Catholic church and still be a Franciscan. St. Francis stressed being loyal to the Church, the Pope,and his bishops.
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Yes, this occurred to me, also. OTPH, Francis was prereformation and in the early days of the reformation, they hadn’t rejected the Eucharist, so… who knows what Francis would think?
Would a Catholic Franciscan work with an respect a non-Catholic “Franciscan”.
Yes similar to the Pope having respect for members of other faiths, but like we can still view them as not having a fullness of the Truth.
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Yes, I agree with that, too and I imagine Francis would, what with his admonitions about not getting angry about others’ sins or ways of life but just tending to your own soul. I actually think it’s delightful so many want to embrace him and I certainly couldn’t judge l them as somehow not as 'good a Franciscan" just because they are not in full communion with the Church.
 
Marauder said:
As far as I know all the Ecumencial, non-denominational, or non-Catholic groups are unofficial as far as the Catholic Church is concerned.

Of course the Anglican church recognizes Franciscan Orders but the Catholic church doesn’t. In many Franciscan minds you can’t be outside the Catholic church and still be a Franciscan. St. Francis stressed being loyal to the Church, the Pope,and his bishops. Would a Catholic Franciscan work with an respect a non-Catholic “Franciscan”. Yes similar to the Pope having respect for members of other faiths, but like we can still view them as not having a fullness of the Truth.

Yes it is confusing, it isn’t just confusing to those just starting to discern.
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Oh we can get along with protestant Franciscans and other lovers of St. Francis, and work alongside them on projects – helping out at a food bank or something like that – but when we talk about theology and sacraments and so on, yes, we’re different from protestants and non-Christians, and that can’t be minimized out of existence. Francis was Catholic and uncompromisingly faithful to the Holy See and the pope. The original Franciscan order is a Catholic thing.
 
And BTW, it stayed a Catholic thing. The Franciscan organizations of other groups tend to be somewhat recent in origin. There was a distinct break at the Reformation when it came to religious orders. The protestant groups are devotional groups – good earnest ones, but nevertheless devotional groups.

That said, it’s not a bad development; it’s a good one overall. More lovers of Francis & Clare who strive to follow the Gospel can’t be a bad thing.

And who knows, maybe it will lead them home. 👍
 
Julia_Mae said:
Hi, joan! Well, this is exciting, you can compare the different approaches to formation.
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Right now I am tring to find acceptance with it as there are things being done in the name of the new program that put my formation back to square one. God has a purpose for all things though.
 
joanofarc2008 said:
Right now I am tring to find acceptance with it as there are things being done in the name of the new program that put my formation back to square one. God has a purpose for all things though.
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I’m planning on starting right after I move in a few months. Can you share the difference, maybe just in objective terms? Or not, if it’s upsetting, of course.
 
Julia_Mae said:
I’m planning on starting right after I move in a few months. Can you share the difference, maybe just in objective terms? Or not, if it’s upsetting, of course.
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Once everything is said and done then every Fraternity will be using the same program. This will make it easier on people like me that are moving in the middle of formation. However unfortunatelty what happened to me is that because the Chapters are being made responsible for and not the information I am having to repeat things that I have done - which it is not that I don’t want to learn about Francis or that I find formation to be a race - it is just that I would like to develop other areas of the Franciscan charism rather than rehashing some of the old ones that I have now gone over twice. I am also being asked to partake in another Rite of Welcoming - this will be my third. I said yes as I believe it is more important to preserve peace within the Fraternity than it is to be right.
 
joanofarc2008 said:
Once everything is said and done then every Fraternity will be using the same program. This will make it easier on people like me that are moving in the middle of formation. However unfortunatelty what happened to me is that because the Chapters are being made responsible for and not the information I am having to repeat things that I have done - which it is not that I don’t want to learn about Francis or that I find formation to be a race - it is just that I would like to develop other areas of the Franciscan charism rather than rehashing some of the old ones that I have now gone over twice. I am also being asked to partake in another Rite of Welcoming - this will be my third. I said yes as I believe it is more important to preserve peace within the Fraternity than it is to be right.
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Ohhhh! I see, thanks. I thought you meant they changed it so much you back to discerning if you had a vocation at all. Well, that sounds a bit frustrating. I imagine the Rite of Welcoming is important for them at least as much as the person coming in, so I kinda get that. I hope you get to stay with this chapter. But maybe with this new program, even if you move, you can start where you left off as I believe from what I read it is to get everyone in sync.
 
Julia_Mae said:
Ohhhh! I see, thanks. I thought you meant they changed it so much you back to discerning if you had a vocation at all. Well, that sounds a bit frustrating. I imagine the Rite of Welcoming is important for them at least as much as the person coming in, so I kinda get that. I hope you get to stay with this chapter. But maybe with this new program, even if you move, you can start where you left off as I believe from what I read it is to get everyone in sync.
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I think this is a difference in understanding of the Rite of Welcoming. The Rite of Welcoming as I understand it is a Rite that takes person from Orientation to Inquiry. So even though I was left with my Inquiry status but had to start my bookwork all over again the Rite of Welcoming is still being used. To be honest some of my Fraternity members are a bit confused by this as well. But it is just easier to go with the flow. It isn’t important to me - it is Rite someone goes through once like someone would only receive the Sacrament of Confirmation once. (usually) Welcoming me into the Fraternity I understand - but the Rite itself - I didn’t change who I was with my status with the SFO. I haven’t been able to bring myself to find the joy in this Rite yet that I have had the other two times. I didn’t do anything. There is no Confirmation of a stage in my calling. None of that exists - it just seems extraneous. It’s happening tomorrow and it is one of those things that I need to do in humility like I said to keep the peace.
 
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