Fired teacher suing diocese

[Rence]

No- I was suggesting that it might not be fair to fire her if she truly didn’t know that IVF was against Church teaching.

I might be wrong about this, but I don’t think as many people know about the moral implications of IVF. In general, it seems that there is less ignorance about the wrongness of prostitution or bank robbery.

I didn’t know about it until I came to this forum, and I attended Catholic grammar school, high school, college and university…

 

[TEPO]

So glad that the Church forbids ivf… I always thought it was evil -just glad to know my conscience is in line with what is true. :heaven:

 

[_Abyssinia]

I see no problem with in vitro fertilization personally, but as a Catholic, it’s a rule of the Church and so I choose to obey the rule in order to be in communion with the Church, and that’s about it. I considered IVF before I happened upon this forum a while back. After learning that the Church forbids it, I stopped pursuing it. But I’m happy for those who don’t have that same burden, and who have successfully gotten pregnant with the help of IVF. So yes, if the situation was abortion, prostitution or bank robbery, of course the issue would be more clear. But then again, single mothers can be fired from their jobs if there is a morality clause included, which doesn’t help single mothers choose life in their time of need.

That does not make sense - if you believed as the Church and modern science does that life begins at conception you would not support IVF for anybody else, it destroys fertilized embryos.

 

[Corki]

I think they’re going to lose this case because they knew about her first attempt at IVF and did and said nothing. There was nothing different about the second time that got her fired. If they don’t have a morality clause carved into her contract, which no one has mentioned on either side, then they will have a tough time.

What’s different is that she knew the Church’s teaching by then. According to the article, her discussion with the pastor occurred before she had the second IVF.

So:

1st attempt – she didn’t know Church teaching, principal let her take time off, she did the procedure, nothing happened to her employment.

2nd attempt - she was informed of Church teaching, she did the procedure anyway in spite of now being informed and there were consequences.

If she got fired after the first one, you could say she didn’t know. But not after the second one. She made the choice to proceed with the second procedure knowing there were consequences.

 

[Corki]

That does not make sense - if you believed as the Church and modern science does that life begins at conception you would not support IVF for anybody else, it destroys fertilized embryos.

This is an error that the linked article made too. The **reason **behind the Church’s teaching about IVF isn’t that it destroy embryos. It’s that it creates embryos divorced from both the marital act, and in many cases from a marriage altogether. The fact that embryos are often left over or destroyed is a tragic consequence but not the reason it’s wrong.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

A Catholic can get fertility treatments? Boy, I wish I knew that earlier. My wife and I have been unable to conceive for years now and I didn’t think you were allowed to do anything about it.

Of course a Catholic can get fertility treatments!

We cannot have IVF or artificial insemination. But other things are completely licit, taking fertilty drugs, corrective surgery.

Why not contact the popepaul institute?

 

[Trader]

This is an error that the linked article made too. The **reason **behind the Church’s teaching about IVF isn’t that it destroy embryos. It’s that it creates embryos divorced from both the marital act, and in many cases from a marriage altogether. The fact that embryos are often left over or destroyed is a tragic consequence but not the reason it’s wrong.

Because this story is so local to me, I intend to follow it. I have two new links today. One is the follow-up story from our local(liberal oriented) paper:
fortwayne.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120425/NEWS/320119348?mytabsmenu=

The second is the official statement from the Diocese of Fort Wayne-South Bend. You may notice that the emphasis is different from the secular newspaper. Corki is correct that the Church’s teaching is more comprehensive than the destruction of “unwanted or unuseful” embryos, although that alone is more than enough to reject the morality of IVF.
diocesefwsb.org/2012/04/statement-from-the-diocese-of-fort-wayne-south-bend/

 

[incense]

According to the lawsuit, Herx told Guffey and Kuzmich in their initial meetings that during the actual course of her medical treatment, neither Herx nor her doctor destroyed a single embryo.

Of course none have been destroyed. They’ve been saved until she’s pregnant. But then what will happen to them? Will she destroy them then? Will she donate them for experimentation? Will she keep the little human frozen forever? They’re called “snowflake babies”.

 

[incense]

Herx, who received a bachelor’s degree from Ball State University and holds a teaching license from Taylor University, was never required to take a religion class or to complete any training or education in the Catholic faith as a condition of employment, according to the lawsuit.

But in its statement, the diocese said it “has clear policies requiring that teachers in its schools must, as a condition of employment, have knowledge of and respect for the Catholic faith and abide by the tenets of the Catholic Church.”

The diocese has a better policy of requiring respect, instead of offering a class. Otherwise, one can claim something wasn’t covered by the class, or not well enough.

 

[_Abyssinia]

A Catholic can get fertility treatments? Boy, I wish I knew that earlier. My wife and I have been unable to conceive for years now and I didn’t think you were allowed to do anything about it.

There are fertility treatments in line with Church teaching.

Check out:

naprotechnology.com

*…nearly three times more successful than IVF for assisting infertile couples, according to the Pope Paul VI Institute for the Study of Human Reproduction, a group founded by Dr. Hilgers at the Creighton University School of Medicine in Omaha. *

catholic.org/prwire/headline.php?ID=6395

catholicinfertility.org/naprotechnology.html

ewtn.com/library/PROLIFE/ZINFERTL.HTM
​

creightonmodel.com

 

[incense]

Herx alleges in the lawsuit that she was treated differently than other school employees such as Guffey, who is divorced, and other male teachers who have used contraceptives and received medical treatments, including vasectomies.

The diocese’s self-funded health insurance plan also covered Herx’s visits to the fertility doctor and anesthesia services associated with IVF procedures, according to the lawsuit.

She’s ready to start smearing her peers for a little money. There’s nothing sinful about being divorced, unless he has remarried.

The teachers who haven’t followed Church teachings are getting ready to be brought to the light. Quite unexpectedly.

It looks like the insurance wouldn’t pay for the invitro, only the doctor’s visit and the anesthesia. So she had to know when they wouldn’t pay, that something was up.

 

[pjMerluza]

i think this sets a massive precedent! where would it end? now we have to fire teachers that get remarried, because that too is as public as a woman being pregnant. and that too can cause scandal.

 

[richard_wang]

I would argue that this teacher’s law suit is unconstitutional since it violated the First Amendment’s Free Exercise Clause. The US Supreme Court has spoken often about a religious organization’s right of association and right to govern itself.

---

An individual’s freedom to speak, to worship, and to petition the government for the redress of grievances could not be vigorously protected from interference by the State unless a correlative freedom to engage in group effort toward those ends were not also guaranteed…Consequently, we have long understood as implicit in the right to engage in activities protected by the First Amendment a corresponding right to associate with others in pursuit of a wide variety of political, social, economic, educational, religious, and cultural ends.

Roberts v. United States Jaycees, 468 U.S. 609, 623 (Citations Omitted)

To safeguard this crucial autonomy, we have long recognized that the Religion Clauses protect a private sphere within which religious bodies are free to govern themselves in accordance with their own beliefs. The Constitution guarantees religious bodies “independence from secular control or manipulation—in short, power to decide for themselves, free from state interference, matters of church government as well as those of faith and doctrine.”

Hosanna-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran Church and School v. EEOC, 565 U. S. ____ (2012) 3 Concurring Opinion (Citation Omitted)

 

[CatholicZ09]

This topic was poster on one of my local news station’s Facebook pages, and you should have seen all the anti-Catholic remarks. As I anticipated, everyone was saying, “The Catholics should be worrying about the raping priests rather than someone who’s trying to bring a life into the world.” And some others said, “Let’s hear it for the Catholics! Another story about love and tolerance!”

Every other comment was just bashing the Catholic Church as a whole. I never understood how people are SO vehemently anti-Catholic.

 

[Rence]

That does not make sense - if you believed as the Church and modern science does that life begins at conception you would not support IVF for anybody else, it destroys fertilized embryos.

It does make sense. It just doesn’t make sense to you. And it does not always destroy fertilized embryos. You can implant the exact number that you fertilize without any waste. It’s more expensive to do it that way, but it can be done.

 

[Rence]

She’s ready to start smearing her peers for a little money. There’s nothing sinful about being divorced, unless he has remarried.

The teachers who haven’t followed Church teachings are getting ready to be brought to the light. Quite unexpectedly.

It looks like the insurance wouldn’t pay for the invitro, only the doctor’s visit and the anesthesia. So she had to know when they wouldn’t pay, that something was up.

Why would she have to know something was up. Not all insurance policies cover all of IVF or any of it at all. It depends on the policy.

 

[Trader]

This topic was poster on one of my local news station’s Facebook pages, and you should have seen all the anti-Catholic remarks. As I anticipated, everyone was saying, “The Catholics should be worrying about the raping priests rather than someone who’s trying to bring a life into the world.” And some others said, “Let’s hear it for the Catholics! Another story about love and tolerance!”

Every other comment was just bashing the Catholic Church as a whole. I never understood how people are SO vehemently anti-Catholic.

One of our local TV stations lead with the headline, “Fired for wanting a baby!” When I did the online search for that headline, I got this from the Chicago ABC station:
abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local/indiana&id=8637642

Headlines are famous for distorting facts and the comments are, well, “not nice”. At least this challenge is an opportunity to explain church teaching on the nature of sex and the family. Unfortunately, in our culture many people are not interested in hearing anything with more depth than, “But I want it!” With our teaching being attacked on many fronts, we can be confident in Matt 16:18, And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

 

[ringil]

If they would have just let this lady do her job none of the mess would have happened.

Missing Mass on Sunday is just as serious a sin as what she has done- both grave.

If teachers aren’t espousing immorality let them be.

 

[incense]

It does make sense. It just doesn’t make sense to you. And it does not always destroy fertilized embryos. You can implant the exact number that you fertilize without any waste. It’s more expensive to do it that way, but it can be done.

You don’t know what she did, except for the very loose claim that no snowflake babies have been destroyed yet. The Church does have guidelines. You have to do more research on this to learn all the issues. For example, there’s also an issue of masturbation to obtain the sperm.

 

[incense]

If they would have just let this lady do her job none of the mess would have happened.
.

She spoke about it to the other teachers, and a teacher brought it to the attention of the principal.

So you think kids are too stupid to notice that what they’re being taught as evil is being carried out by a teacher at their Catholic school. Message received, no one really expects you to follow Catholic morality, just whatever you feel is right at the time.