First lesbian bishop to be consecrated by Anglican church in America

[FrJohnB]

I notice that the Roman Catholic Church has not split apart like the Episcopal Church is doing so I would say that the gates of Hell are not prevailing.

AMEN Brother

 

[benidict]

Evil or the devil or whatever you want to call it depending on your persuasion has always been at work to try and destroy the church. We have the promise that it will not prevail. As to the Episcopal Church I look at it this way, The Bible always speaks that there will always be a faithful remnant, and I Pray that there will be. I would love to see a conservative like Padrej come to Rome but right now the Anglicans need him as much as we do. God will always provide.

thank you so much Father. i was hoping you would jump in here. i feel you are much better equipped to answer these type of questions. Peace to you. and thank you for being here

 

[Padrej]

i would agree with this assesment my friend. also in our personal walk, we have to be on guard. i pray that God strengthen you in all you do. do you now have your own parish? or are you still waiting? peace

yes I have a parish and I am an auxiliary Anglican bishop and have several parishes and ministries under my cure. Thank you for your prayers, I am being asked to take on a much larger church right now than the one that I am currently serving and it is has some “issues” that I have been made aware of before going in. I have actually been in ministry now 22 years, 7 of those as a bishop.

 

[benidict]

yes I have a parish and I am an auxiliary Anglican bishop and have several parishes and ministries under my cure. Thank you for your prayers, I am being asked to take on a much larger church right now than the one that I am currently serving and it is has some “issues” that I have been made aware of before going in. I have actually been in ministry now 22 years, 7 of those as a bishop.

WOW! then Father, i will offer up twice the amount of prayers for you and what you are called to do. God bless you so much for everything you stand for. may you have nothing but success, with your ministry. peace

 

[FrJohnB]

thank you so much Father. i was hoping you would jump in here. i feel you are much better equipped to answer these type of questions. Peace to you. and thank you for being here

I think that you are holding your own quite well. You are quite the theologian.

I enjoy reading your posts. The Catholic church needs persons of your caliber to defend the faith.

 

[FrJohnB]

You hit the proverbial nail square on the head. In my mind the Episcopal church is literally throwing the Bible away and doing whatever it darn well pleases. You are very correct, it is an excuse and not a position. You must also understand that the document in question is in response to the earlier “Windsor Report” Which basically condemns the acts and speaks of the reconciliation process that was going on between John Paul II and The Archbishop of Canterbury at the time.
See this link, IT IS VERY LONG
anglicancommunion.org/windsor2004/downloads/windsor2004full.pdf

In my mind the report you all are picking apart has NO merit whatsoever as you point out as far as any theological document goes.

What I cannot understand is why would the US bishops go against the views expressed by the rest of the Anglican communion in the Windsor report. That is like declaring independence.

 

[Padrej]

What I cannot understand is why would the US bishops go against the views expressed by the rest of the Anglican communion in the Windsor report. That is like declaring independence.

Father, in my mind it is. However, they do not see it that way. They see those who follow the Windsor report and align themselves with the southern cone of bishops over the ordination of the homosexual clergy as the ones out of communion with Canterbury.

Lets say, God forbid, the American council of Catholic bishops starts ordaining gay clergy and women and the conservative Catholic parishes who did not believe in this wanted to align themselves up with Rome and came under the episcopal oversight of say a Cardinal in the Vatican. Wouldn’t they still be considered “in communion” with Rome? You bet your boots they would.

This is what is happening in the American Episcopal Church over the ordination of Homosexuals and much of the fight is in the recognition of the conservatives who have aligned themselves with the bishops in the southern cone who are still very much in communion with Canterbury. The Episcopal Church wants their property even though they really never left, just re-aligned. I am sure you remember back in August of 2007 when Bishop Lee of Virginia told 21 of his priests “follow scripture and be defrocked or follow the church and keep your churches.” These clergy were defrocked for following scripture. At first Lee was going to allow these churches to leave amicably but then the new presiding bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori ordered him to fight them tooth and nail. I am sure we all view that action as that of a true Christian.

I agree with you, she should have remained a marine biologist.

 

[FrJohnB]

Father, in my mind it is. However, they do not see it that way. They see those who follow the Windsor report and align themselves with the southern cone of bishops over the ordination of the homosexual clergy as the ones out of communion with Canterbury.

Lets say, God forbid, the American council of Catholic bishops starts ordaining gay clergy and women and the conservative Catholic parishes who did not believe in this wanted to align themselves up with Rome and came under the episcopal oversight of say a Cardinal in the Vatican. Wouldn’t they still be considered “in communion” with Rome? You bet your boots they would.

This is what is happening in the American Episcopal Church over the ordination of Homosexuals and much of the fight is in the recognition of the conservatives who have aligned themselves with the bishops in the southern cone who are still very much in communion with Canterbury. The Episcopal Church wants their property even though they really never left, just re-aligned. I am sure you remember back in August of 2007 when Bishop Lee of Virginia told 21 of his priests “follow scripture and be defrocked or follow the church and keep your churches.” These clergy were defrocked for following scripture. At first Lee was going to allow these churches to leave amicably but then the new presiding bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori ordered him to fight them tooth and nail. I am sure we all view that action as that of a true Christian.

I agree with you, she should have remained a marine biologist.

I can see your point Padre and feel your pain over this issue.
I agree with you in your hypothetical situation of the Catholic bishops breaking away from church teachings and scripture that those who aligned themselves with Rome would still be “in communion.” I hope this illustration makes it clearer to the Catholics on this thread what struggles the Anglicans are going through over this issue of the ordination of homosexuals.

BTW I also think that Katharine Jefferts Schori is not acting like a true Christian either. Saying my true feeling on her would go into the realm of personal attack. Suffice it to say she does fit the description of “evil in the higher ranks” of the Episcopal church.

 

[larkin31]

Benidict, our brother in the human race Larkin is agnostic though I certainly find he exemplifies Christ’s love (I hope no offense Larkin) in many of his posts and in how he treats fellow human beings better than I might argue some of us Christians. I am a Christian however, not by sight but by faith so my answer is going to be a bit different than Larkin’s when you asked him. Yes I believe the devil is an entity and yes I believe in good and evil.

Thanks, brother

we are all brothers

 

[Padrej]

Thanks, brother

we are all brothers

Larkin
I guess I would have to agree that from some of my latter posts that evil/the devil (I put it this way so that we could be more in agreement) is alive and well in the upper ranks of the Episcopal church.

 

[FrJohnB]

The problem is not in the conventions it is in the bishops who do whatever they darn well please and to heck with what cannon law says and the Bible as well. They know that the laity will do and can do NOTHING to them. That is what I was referring to. If they set a precedent of homosexual clergy who can turn them down? If a bishop is put forth (elected) by 2/3 vote of clergy and 1/3 of lay and then has to be approved by the house bishops only where do you have strong laity?

Maybe Mikeoffaith also needs to be reminded of Mark Lawrence who was elected Episcopal Bishop of South Carolina and the presiding bishop Katherine Jefferts Schori overturned the election because he opposed the election of the homosexual Gene Robinson. This had to re-voted on by the clergy and then approved by the house of bishops NOT the laity

 

[Padrej]

Maybe Mikeoffaith also needs to be reminded of Mark Lawrence who was elected Episcopal Bishop of South Carolina and the presiding bishop Katherine Jefferts Schori overturned the election because he opposed the election of the homosexual Gene Robinson. This had to re-voted on by the clergy and then approved by the house of bishops NOT the laity

Thanks father. I had forgotten about that incident. This is another example of how the higher ups tried to oppose a person of traditional values. Unfortunately Mark Lawrence far more popular than what the presiding bishop thought he was.

 

[larkin31]

Larkin
I guess I would have to agree that from some of my latter posts that evil/the devil (I put it this way so that we could be more in agreement) is alive and well in the upper ranks of the Episcopal church.

I trust that you let your superiors know, since this is, I imagine, a form of heresy alive in your church. Have you pointed out the individuals you are concerned about to your superiors that you trust? Have you written public letters? Do you think any of those persons actually worships the devil instead of God?

 

[Terry_McCann]

Gays are already in the ministry of ALL religions, and have done a fine job.

The huge scandal in the catholic church relating to child sex offense was mostly perpetrated by homosexual pedophiles. Which supports the vaticans advise not to admit homosexuals into the priesthood.

 

[larkin31]

The huge scandal in the catholic church relating to child sex offense was mostly perpetrated by homosexual pedophiles. Which supports the vaticans advise not to admit homosexuals into the priesthood.

Closing all Catholic churches would take care of that problem, too.

 

[GKC]

Maybe Mikeoffaith also needs to be reminded of Mark Lawrence who was elected Episcopal Bishop of South Carolina and the presiding bishop Katherine Jefferts Schori overturned the election because he opposed the election of the homosexual Gene Robinson. This had to re-voted on by the clergy and then approved by the house of bishops NOT the laity

The gracious Katherine overturned the election on a technicality, related to how the episcopal consents were reported, and required a re-vote, of the consents, IIRC.

But the situation was as you described it; politics were at the bottom.

GKC

 

[Stephen168]

Father, in my mind it is. However, they do not see it that way. They see those who follow the Windsor report and align themselves with the southern cone of bishops over the ordination of the homosexual clergy as the ones out of communion with Canterbury.

Lets say, God forbid, the American council of Catholic bishops starts ordaining gay clergy and women and the conservative Catholic parishes who did not believe in this wanted to align themselves up with Rome and came under the episcopal oversight of say a Cardinal in the Vatican. Wouldn’t they still be considered “in communion” with Rome? You bet your boots they would.

This is what is happening in the American Episcopal Church over the ordination of Homosexuals and much of the fight is in the recognition of the conservatives who have aligned themselves with the bishops in the southern cone who are still very much in communion with Canterbury. The Episcopal Church wants their property even though they really never left, just re-aligned. I am sure you remember back in August of 2007 when Bishop Lee of Virginia told 21 of his priests “follow scripture and be defrocked or follow the church and keep your churches.” These clergy were defrocked for following scripture. At first Lee was going to allow these churches to leave amicably but then the new presiding bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori ordered him to fight them tooth and nail. I am sure we all view that action as that of a true Christian.

I agree with you, she should have remained a marine biologist.

Has the conservative group been recognized by the Archbishop of Canterbury and the rest of the communion?

Does the Archbishop of Canterbury have any (name removed by moderator)ut on who becomes a Bishop?

 

[Terry_McCann]

Closing all Catholic churches would take care of that problem, too.

By that logic we should close “the human race”, as these sorts of crimes are more widespread in the average family home (just not reported on by the press).

 

[Stephen168]

Closing all Catholic churches would take care of that problem, too.

I think you have summarized the feelings of homosexual political movement.

 

[Stephen168]

Well you have a point. Only in the wildest dreams of the hardest core do all of us agree on everything. In reality, if you believe that, I have a bridge I’d like to sell you. But we’re still all Catholics per the Church! :yup:

Which is the source of scandal.