First Presidential Debate 9/26/16 Thread

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7_Sorrows said:
Why are the liberals so jealous of Donald Trump’s wealth? Why does it matter he grew up wealthy? JFK didn’t exactly grow up poor. The liberals seem selective about who they can whine about growing up wealthy. George W. Bush, Donald Trump, etc.
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Right. Then why the fuss over Soros or Madoff? Or the bankers reaping all those bonuses thanks to TARP among other things?

The point is that we care because of possible negative impact on ourselves. How is it not a conflict of interest if we allow politicians to run their businesses when they have legislative powers enriching those businesses in the process?

And what about the base that supports Trump which was formed on a fabricated issue like Obama’s birth certificate, which he now denounces? How honest is that type of campaigning?

And the same goes for his opponent.

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meltzerboy said:
stinkcat_14;14195139:
True to his word? I think most of us can answer that question without information about his tax returns. Perhaps possible conflicts of interest can be revealed by Trump’s returns. Frankly, however, with candidates such as him and Hillary Clinton, matters such as this are the least of our worries.

BTW, wasn’t it also a matter of contention in 2012 regarding Mitt Romney’s tax returns?
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Yes it was after senile Harry Reid said he had been told that Romney paid no taxes.
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Maximilan_Kolbe said:
Just a guess though. I am not in love with Trump at all, but see the evil she seeks to wrought on the country and the Church, and am left with no better option. That’s just me.
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Maybe the better option is not to vote or vote for a third party which IMO may be better in the long run. We need to encourage good candidates for office.

There is no Church teaching that says we MUST vote for Trump. And that seems to be the implication of many of us here.
 
meltzerboy said:
stinkcat_14;14195139:
True to his word? I think most of us can answer that question without information about his tax returns. Perhaps possible conflicts of interest can be revealed by Trump’s returns. Frankly, however, with candidates such as him and Hillary Clinton, matters such as this are the least of our worries.

BTW, wasn’t it also a matter of contention in 2012 regarding Mitt Romney’s tax returns?
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Yes, Harry Reid flat out lied when he said Romney hadn’t paid taxes in ten years.
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ProVobis said:
Maybe the better option is not to vote or vote for a third party which IMO may be better in the long run. We need to encourage good candidates for office.

There is no Church teaching that says we MUST vote for Trump. And that seems to be the implication of many of us here.
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No one said anything about Church teaching; people arguing against a third party vote do it from a point of pragmatism. I don’t recall a single time someone has mentioned the Church with regards to having to avoid a third party vote, so I am not sure why you mentioned that.

Personally, I do not have twenty years to invest on lobbying for third party candidates while an R or D is elected in every major election during that time. I will do what I can to promote good policies, and negate as much damage as I can, hence my aversion to a USSC filled by Hillary Clinton.
 
Michael68 said:
That’s really none of your business! He filed the required FEC Financial Disclosure Form.
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Actually it is my business. If he wants my vote, then he needs to be transparent. I am under no obligation to vote for him.
 
Michael68 said:
meltzerboy;14195284:
Yes, Harry Reid flat out lied when he said Romney hadn’t paid taxes in ten years.
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And Romney got criticized on this Catholic Answers board for giving so much of his generous charitable contributions to the Mormon Church, the implication being it was just forced charity.
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Michael68 said:
Yes, Harry Reid flat out lied when he said Romney hadn’t paid taxes in ten years.
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The worst part is, he used the U.S. Senate floor to make this claim and said he had inside information, basically claiming the IRS leaked it to him. Then we find out the IRS has been targeting conservative groups.

(people fix your quotes) 🙂
 
Maximilan_Kolbe said:
Perhaps, but the polling statistics on here show a pretty even split. There is an air of “you are wrong for voting for this guy” that we don’t hear from your side with Hillary, when in many people’s opinions, her weaknesses as a candidate for Catholics are far more serious. Yet, she gets nary an attack. And it isn’t as though she doesn’t have supporters. Sy Noe, Mulligan, Moritz, Leaf, TMC, Chero and more all are ready with their support.

If both candidates were equally disqualified, statistically, one would over time see criticism rise up for both that would even out. But I suspect some posters (and the ones who are pro-Catholic but loudly anti-Trump while staying silent on Clinton are well known around here) realize they can’t in good conscience vote for her, but deep down, they don’t truly loathe her the way they do trump, hence why she doesn’t get their ire.

Just a guess though. I am not in love with Trump at all, but see the evil she seeks to wrought on the country and the Church, and am left with no better option. That’s just me.
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To many people (myself included) Trump is beyond the pale in so many ways and for so many reasons related to temperament, intellect, experience and knowledge, whereas Hillary Clinton is more or less a conventional politician. I’m not voting for her because I don’t believe in what she stands for, but I also don’t think we’ll face an existential threat to the continued existence of our country as we know it if she does get elected.

And I’ve tried and tried to rationalize a vote for Trump but I just can’t seem to do it. It goes against all my instincts about what I think are minimum qualifications for the position. I have to respect the person, and I simply don’t respect him based on years of watching him engaging in his self-involved antics.
 
tomarin said:
To many people (myself included) Trump is beyond the pale in so many ways and for so many reasons related to temperament, intellect, experience and knowledge, whereas Hillary Clinton is more or less a conventional politician. I’m not voting for her because I don’t believe in what she stands for, but I also don’t think we’ll face an existential threat to the continued existence of our country as we know it if she does get elected.

And I’ve tried and tried to rationalize a vote for Trump but I just can’t seem to do it. It goes against all my instincts about what I think are minimum qualifications for the position. I have to respect the person, and I simply don’t respect him based on years of watching him engaging in his self-involved antics.
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Thanks for the explanation. The problem is, when juxtaposed with someone in Clinton who actively promotes things as evil and on a grander scale as what the Nazis did, it makes my uncertainty about Trump pale. When we are talking about someone who supports a holocaust-on-steroids when it comes to our children, Trumps lack of presidential qualities don’t even really register. I suppose it depends on how you view what Clinton espouses and promotes. Some folks are likely numb to that evil because it has been part of their platform for so long that we almost begin to allow our senses to be dulled.
 
It looks like the Clash of the Titans is continuing on Twitter, The Donald vs. Miss Universe:

Donald J. Trump ✔️ @realDonaldTrump
Did Crooked Hillary help disgusting (check out sex tape and past) Alicia M become a U.S. citizen so she could use her in the debate?
2:30 AM - 30 Sep 2016
 
Maximilan_Kolbe said:
No one said anything about Church teaching; people arguing against a third party vote do it from a point of pragmatism. I don’t recall a single time someone has mentioned the Church with regards to having to avoid a third party vote, so I am not sure why you mentioned that.

Personally, I do not have twenty years to invest on lobbying for third party candidates while an R or D is elected in every major election during that time. I will do what I can to promote good policies, and negate as much damage as I can, hence my aversion to a USSC filled by Hillary Clinton.
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Yes this … Supreme Court Justices are the reason to vote in this election …they serve for life and with one vacancy and one or two more likely in the next 4 years …this election will be pivotal for more than one generation … They could serve 30 years or more.

Not voting or voting 3rd party will not send a meaningful message that can offset the potential harm that the types of judges Hillary has promised will do. It is impossible to predict how they will vote with 100% certainty …but I would rather take my chances being disappointed in a decision that a Trump or any Republican President nominates than hope Hillary is disappointed her nominee’s decision.

This election is probably the most important of my life time …could I want better choices. to choose from …yes …but being in Oregon I have nor will I have that option …Lt seems like decisions about nominees and even final elections are decided before our polls close …it is always a choice between the Names on the ballot …

It’s Hillary and the pro death Democratic platform with proAbort justices or Trump with a Republican pro life platfirm and the promise to appoint proLife justices …the lives of innocent children by the millions is at stake …in addition to promoting the culture of death for generations!

Work to create a viable 3rd party but do it for the next 4 year cycle …start today - you’ll need the 4 years …but do as much as you can this election to stop abortion
 
Maximilan_Kolbe said:
Thanks for the explanation. The problem is, when juxtaposed with someone in Clinton who actively promotes things as evil and on a grander scale as what the Nazis did, it makes my uncertainty about Trump pale. When we are talking about someone who supports a holocaust-on-steroids when it comes to our children, Trumps lack of presidential qualities don’t even really register. I suppose it depends on how you view what Clinton espouses and promotes. Some folks are likely numb to that evil because it has been part of their platform for so long that we almost begin to allow our senses to be dulled.
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I appreciate your explaining your point of view to me.
 
Michael68 said:
That’s really none of your business! He filed the required FEC Financial Disclosure Form.
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It remains the public’s business because Trump continues to claim he will release his tax returns. If he isn’t going to then he should stop saying he will.
 
lmachine said:
It remains the public’s business because Trump continues to claim he will release his tax returns. If he isn’t going to then he should stop saying he will.
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And you should quit pestering him about it. He will release them, if he wants, when he wants. All this whining and crying is just a deflection.
 
Michael68 said:
And you should quit pestering him about it. He will release them, if he wants, when he wants. All this whining and crying is just a deflection.
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I’ve never communicated with Trump, let alone pestered him, and am not whining or crying. Just wondering if he’s going to do the thing he has said many times he’s going to do. 🤷
 
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