First Presidential Debate 9/26/16 Thread

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Sy_Noe said:
I don’t know but this is from the UMC website.

“It’s important to note that the Church’s statements on social issues, such as abortion, represent the effort of the General Conference to speak to human issues in the contemporary world from a sound biblical and theological foundation. They are intended to be instructive and persuasive, but they are not church law and are not binding on members. Members will hold differing views on abortion. There is no requirement for members to agree with the Church’s view.”

umc.org/what-we-believe/what-is-the-united-methodist-position-on-abortion
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Moral relativism at its best … have to love it // no sin is sin - people just hold different views 👍
 
Al_Moritz said:
But Trump supporters remain unfazed, through thick and thin, and will always defend him no matter what.
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From what I have read, most Trump supporters express misgivings about him. But their misgivings about Hillary are even greater.

Please don’t make blanket statements like that.
 
Al_Moritz said:
But Trump supporters remain unfazed, through thick and thin, and will always defend him no matter what.
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Well, there’s really no choice if one doesn’t want to be forced to “change his religion” to accommodate abortion, be ruled by executive fiat, or have his country’s foreign and domestic policy open to the highest bidder.

Trump was blindsided by this in the debate. Even the mainstream media admitted that Hillary set this up with the media for a post-debate media firestorm before the debate. He was given no opportunity to respond at the debate in what was really a “three-on-one” attack by Clinton, Holt and the media who had been prepared for it in advance. Still, Trump should have been much more urbane in his later response.

I don’t know how Trump supporters will react to it. But others should take what preceded it as a portent for the future if Clinton is elected. The Clinton/media complex is determined to rule, absolutely, and doesn’t care how they get it done. And Trump and Sanders (before he made peace with Clinton) are both right in telling us the “fix is in”.
 
Al_Moritz said:
From the editorial of the Arizona Republic which has not endorsed a Democrat in its 126 years of existence but now endorsed Clinton:

"**Trump’s conversion to conservatism is recent and unconvincing. There is no guarantee he will name solid conservatives to the Supreme Court.
**
Hillary Clinton has long been a centrist. Despite her tack left to woo Bernie Sanders supporters, Clinton retains her centrist roots. Her justices might not be in the mold of Antonin Scalia, but they will be accomplished individuals with the experience, education and intelligence to handle the job.

They will be competent. Just as she is competent."
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Clinton retains her pro Abortion stance - she has not moved to woo anyone on that measure

And she will do everything in her power to place Justices on the Court who believe the same way … how do you think her centrist leanings would shape the Supreme Court in any way in the direction of respecting life?

There is nothing liberal or centrist or conservative about killing innocent children - intrinsically evil …

Trump may or may not nominate a Justice who will not align with the evil of abortion …except he said he would not purposefully do so

The same can be said for Clinton her justice may be pro-Life and hide it - But I think they will be well vetted on that position and Hillary has said she will appoint Justices who are pro-abortion rights - want to do so and will work to do so …

Have you never been disappointed in a decision? I have … but I would rather take a chance with Trump that his justice will disappoint me …
 
Al_Moritz said:
Hillary Clinton has long been a centrist. Despite her tack left to woo Bernie Sanders supporters, Clinton retains her centrist roots. Her justices might not be in the mold of Antonin Scalia, but they will be accomplished individuals with the experience, education and intelligence to handle the job.

They will be competent. Just as she is competent."
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Bill Clinton’s appointee was Ruth Bader Ginsburg who believes the Constitution is “outmoded”. She prefers the constitution of India, which is flexible and accommodates political points of view instead of immutable principles. Moreover, Ginsburg and other Dem appointees all voted to void any state restrictions on “partial birth abortion” (stopping birth long enough to kill the baby)

There is not the least reason to imagine that Hillary Clinton will do otherwise.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Well, there’s really no choice if one doesn’t want to be forced to “change his religion” to accommodate abortion, be ruled by executive fiat, or have his country’s foreign and domestic policy open to the highest bidder.

Trump was blindsided by this in the debate. Even the mainstream media admitted that Hillary set this up with the media for a post-debate media firestorm before the debate. He was given no opportunity to respond at the debate in what was really a “three-on-one” attack by Clinton, Holt and the media who had been prepared for it in advance. Still, Trump should have been much more urbane in his later response.

I don’t know how Trump supporters will react to it. But others should take what preceded it as a portent for the future if Clinton is elected. The Clinton/media complex is determined to rule, absolutely, and doesn’t care how they get it done. And Trump and Sanders (before he made peace with Clinton) are both right in telling us the “fix is in”.
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He may have been blindsided in the debate. That does not explain why he hasn’t just dropped it.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Bill Clinton’s appointee was Ruth Bader Ginsburg who believes the Constitution is “outmoded”. She prefers the constitution of India, which is flexible and accommodates political points of view instead of immutable principles. Moreover, Ginsburg and other Dem appointees all voted to void any state restrictions on “partial birth abortion” (stopping birth long enough to kill the baby)

There is not the least reason to imagine that Hillary Clinton will do otherwise.
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The quote you ascribed to me in your post was from the Arizona Republic. I just quoted the newspaper in my post. Not that I don’t agree with the quote, but I would appreciate you being accurate in your post quotations.
 
Al_Moritz said:
From the editorial of the Arizona Republic which has not endorsed a Democrat in its 126 years of existence but now endorsed Clinton:

"**Trump’s conversion to conservatism is recent and unconvincing. There is no guarantee he will name solid conservatives to the Supreme Court.
**
Hillary Clinton has long been a centrist. Despite her tack left to woo Bernie Sanders supporters, Clinton retains her centrist roots. Her justices might not be in the mold of Antonin Scalia, but they will be accomplished individuals with the experience, education and intelligence to handle the job.

They will be competent. Just as she is competent."
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And there’s the rub. I’m not at all in agreement with the policies with which she is be competent:
  • Taxpayer funded Abortion
  • 2nd Amendment rights
  • Supreme Court Justice Appointments
  • War mongering
  • Increased government interference
  • Increasing taxes
  • Being elitist
  • Pay to play
  • Being owned
  • Lying
  • Gay Marriage
  • Forcing us to “change our deep seated religious” views
  • Clinton Foundation Corruption
 
Al_Moritz said:
The quote you ascribed to me in your post was from the Arizona Republic. I just quoted the newspaper in my post. Not that I don’t agree with the quote, but I would appreciate you being accurate in your post quotations.
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Well, then my response is to the Arizona Republic and, to whatever degree others might agree with it, to them well. :rolleyes:
 
Al_Moritz said:
Fine. Here is more opportunity for you having misgivings about him:

Donald Trump’s history of corruption: a comprehensive review

With a lot of links within the article.
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A total opinion piece, containing nothing but conclusions, i.e., the opinions of the left-wing publication. No facts whatever in the article to support their opinion. None. Oh, well, they did claim that other publications have accused Trump of something-or-other, or so they say.
 
Al_Moritz said:
Poll: Clinton leads by 6 points in Nevada

Another post-debate, swing-state poll shows Hillary Clinton leading Donald Trump — this time in Nevada, posting a 6-point advantage over the beleaguered GOP nominee.

Clinton leads Trump, 44 percent to 38 percent, in a Suffolk University poll released Friday. The poll, conducted Tuesday-Thursday, also shows Libertarian Gary Johnson at 7 percent, with the remaining 11 percent choosing another minor-party candidate, undecided or the state-specific “none of these candidates” option that appears on the Nevada ballot.

Clinton’s surge in Nevada isn’t yet translating downballot: GOP Rep. Joe Heck still has a slight lead in the state’s closely watched open-seat Senate race, ahead of Democrat Catherine Cortez Masto, 38 percent to 35 percent. But there’s still a lot of volatility in the race to replace retiring Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid: More than 27 percent of likely voters chose a minor candidate, were undecided or said they would vote for the “none of these candidates” options.

In the presidential race, white voters tilt toward Trump, 46 percent to 38 percent. But Clinton leads among non-white voters by a wider margin: 54 percent to 24 percent.

While half of likely voters still have an unfavorable impression of Clinton, her favorable rating is nearly 10 points ahead of Trump’s: 45 percent for Clinton, to 36 percent for Trump. Fifty-nine percent of likely voters have an unfavorable opinion of Trump.

Clinton is also viewed as more honest and trustworthy than Trump coming out of the debate this week: 38 percent of likely voters said they think Clinton is honest, compared to only 34 percent for Trump.

And Nevada voters agree with other scientific polls nationally and in the states that Clinton did the better job at this week’s debate: 57 percent of likely voters in the Suffolk poll who watched the debate said Clinton won, compared to 23 percent who picked Trump as the winner.
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And in a post debate Florida poll Clinton also now leads by 4% there. With strong support among Democrats, women, blacks, Hispanics and not only has a strong lead in the traditional Democratic stronghold of southeast FL but also has a lead in the all important I-4 corridor. In the swing Tampa Bay area she has a 7 pt lead.

politico.com/states/f/?id=00000157-79b0-de4f-a777-79fb8c9c0001
 
Ridgerunner said:
A total opinion piece, containing nothing but conclusions, i.e., the opinions of the left-wing publication. No facts whatever in the article to support their opinion. None. Oh, well, they did claim that other publications have accused Trump of something-or-other, or so they say.
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Really. Hmmm. How about the many links in the article to back it up? How about the link to the extensively researched Wall Street Journal article about stiffing of contractors?

Or is the WSJ now also a left-wing publication? Oh, I forgot, everything not supporting the Great Trump is RINO. That seems to be the name of the game on the ‘conservative’ side these days.
 
Al_Moritz said:
Really. Hmmm. How about the many links in the article to back it up? How about the link to the extensively researched Wall Street Journal article about stiffing of contractors?

Or is the WSJ now also a left-wing publication? Oh, I forgot, everything not supporting the Great Trump is RINO. That seems to be the name of the game on the ‘conservative’ side these days.
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My comment was about the article itself, which contained no facts.

All the same, the WSJ incorporates a lot of opinions. In the article you are now citing, there is certainly the suggestion that Trump is a hard-ball operator. That’s backed simply by statements of vendors and contractors with whom he had disputes.

Disputes are common in the construction and development industry. As a large developer, it’s natural that Trump would have a lot of them. But interestingly, the WSJ article doesn’t actually say Trump is “corrupt” as your original, left-wing article did. It didn’t even say he is a chisler. It just says he has been in a lot of disputes.

In my state, there are something like 600 claims against Lowe’s alone. Against Walmart, there are thousands. All large businesses have ongoing litigation all the time, and tend to take a hard edge when they get sued.
 
7_Sorrows said:
I think it depends on which way the wind is blowing…remember when she believed in traditional marriage?
Hillary will do what she needs to do to advance her political life.
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I don’t know that for certain since a number of denominations and Christians who are not candidates seeking votes have different views/discernment/understanding on marriage than they may previously have had.
 
Al_Moritz said:
Trump loses all impulse control, and unleashes a violent Twitter rant against his Miss Universe nemesis.

While Hillary Clinton is riding high after the first presidential debate, Donald Trump is jumping down into the gutter.

In the wee hours of Friday morning, the impulse-control-deficient Republican nominee let loose a torrent of tweets, calling former Miss Universe winner Alicia Machado “disgusting” and accusing her of having a sex tape.

Wow, Crooked Hillary was duped and used by my worst Miss U. Hillary floated her as an ‘angel’ without checking her past, which is terrible!” read one tweet sent a little after 5 a.m., followed by, “Using Alicia M in the debate as a paragon of virtue just shows that Crooked Hillary suffers from BAD JUDGEMENT! Hillary was set up by a con.”

He wrapped up his rant with: “Did Crooked Hillary help disgusting (check out sex tape and past) Alicia M become a U.S. citizen so she could use her in the debate?”

It was his most vicious lashing out since Hillary Clinton revived his long-running feud with Machado on Monday night’s debate stage. As Trump tried to again attack Clinton’s “stamina,” the Democratic nominee sprung a trap, saying one of the worst things Trump has said about a woman was his public shaming of Machado after she gained a few pounds during her reign.

…]

Clinton’s campaign jumped on Trump’s Machado tweets later Friday morning, eager for yet another chance to highlight his tendency to fling derogatory remarks at women. “What kind of man stays up all night to smear a woman with lies and conspiracy theories?” Clinton posted to her Twitter account, the second in a nine-tweet flurry. “Trump obsessively bullies Rosie O’Donnell—an accomplished actor. He insulted Kim Kardashian for her weight—when she was pregnant. Pathetic,” she wrote minutes later, punctuating her online attack by telling her followers that “while Donald continues day 5 of his Machado meltdown, we’ll be in Florida talking about national service. You’ll want to watch.”
“The Clinton campaign could not have asked for more,” David Axelrod, President Barack Obama’s chief campaign strategist, said on CNN.

Axelrod said it is “unfathomable” that Trump made such a self-destructive move on the Friday after the debate, adding that it was a “shrewd thing” for Clinton to poke Trump on his past comments about Machado.

(more at link)

Alicia Machado Responds to Trump: 'I Will Continue Standing’

licia Machado, the former Miss Universe who has been engaged in a war of words with Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump, posted some strong remarks on Instagram hours after Trump sent out a controversial tweet calling her “disgusting” and urging Americans to watch an alleged sex tape of her.

Written in Spanish, Machado, a staunch Clinton supporter, said Trump “insists on discrediting and demoralizing women, which is definitely one of his most terrifying characteristics.”

Full translation below:

(more at link)
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Maybe it is true. 🤷
 
Maximilan_Kolbe said:
And since, no candidate is perfect, we are always voting the lesser of two evils, metaphorically speaking.
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OK but for the record Cicero in his DeOfficiis (On Civic Duty) wrote “Primum, minima de malis” (Of evils, choose the LEAST.)

It wouldn’t be much of a democracy if we only had two choices.
 
Thorolfr said:
It’s not just NBC. It’s all over the news and on TV and the longer it stays there the worse it will be for Trump. And Mr. Trump is keeping it in the news by getting involved in a Twitter war. It shows a lack of self control that will hurt his campaign and will raise more doubts about whether he has the temperament to be President.
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yes this is the Clinton machine and George Soros in action. Do you ever wonder what the deal was between Obama and Clinton?
She was probably promised the democratic nomination in 2016.
They can’t afford for her to lose so they will be doing a lot of mudslinging at Trump and he knows it.
 
7_Sorrows said:
yes this is the Clinton machine and George Soros in action. Do you ever wonder what the deal was between Obama and Clinton?
She was probably promised the democratic nomination in 2016.
They can’t afford for her to lose so they will be doing a lot of mudslinging at Trump and he knows it.
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Do you ever wonder if she didn’t pull off the nomination in 2008 but managed to in 2016, not because of some “deal” but because the majority of Democratic voters chose her in this primary?
 
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