First Thread - New Forum

[vocatio]

Greetings,

It’s harder to take a blow from your brother than your cousin. That being said, if this forum is dedicated to educating Latins, then they better be up to the task and not presume that they are the answer to 2,000 years of belief and practice.

Peace and God Bless!

I assure you, brother, that I am not one of those Latin Catholics. I would go to the Eastern Catholic Church if my wife felt comfortable. I hope this change in forum will help her come to understand or see what I’ve already come to believe. I would really love to go to the east. But I have to make sure my desires to an equal Church does not hinder my son’s desire to become a Latin Catholic priest. God knows that we need more priests…and I don’t want that on my conscience.

 

[StMarkEofE]

Sure I would give you my side and hear yours humbly and honestly. Yet I would not give you mine in a prideful attempt to convert you or prove you wrong. I would leave any epiphany gained up to the working of the Holy Spirit. I think what has been seen to much of are people taking offense at the lack of charity and resepct which is in proselytization and not ecumenical evangelization. This tact only leads us further appart, not closer.

Let me put it another way, when I reply I do my best to not disrespect eastern praxis or the person who believes in it even though I do not. Nor do I expect him to decide in favor of what I say just because I say it. I am willing to listen if I am afforded the same. Then there is no axe to grind. Many times have I arrived at understanding Orthodox praxis as a different expression of the same Faith in this manner of dialogue. Seldom have I seen any understanding come from decent into heated polemics. Have you?

Peace.

Peace.

Have you? Maybe not you, but there are hard charging Romans who would jump at any answer I (a couple posters I have in mind) would give and give it a nasty twist.

 

[NewAbdalMaseeh]

I know I’m new to Catholic Answers (as far as posting to the forums and/or post count numbers are concerned), so I hope I am not out of place saying this, but I must confess that this change saddens me.

Was it Chesterton who wrote that, sometimes, a statement by a Catholic can do more damage than a thousand statements by anti-Catholics? Whatever the case, that came to mind, because, while I only recently started posting to Catholic Answers, I have been visiting the site (and the forums) for well over a year. I really love this site, and have found it to be a great (and valuable) starting resource in my journey. But when the Orthodox forum was taken away today, rather suddenly, it left a sour taste in my mouth, and I had to swallow my initial reaction and remind myself that this forum does not reflect all of Catholicism.

In other words, as stupid as it may sound to some, as a person who is standing at the fork between Catholicism and Orthodoxy, this move actually made me lean away from Catholicism for a brief moment (until I reminded myself that such a reaction is irrational). For that moment, my gut feeling (however irrational) was that this change was motivated by exasperation at the fact that Orthodox present a much stiffer challenge than Protestants. I wonder how many others have reached such a conclusion.

And I wonder about these sorts of rules that the Orthodox can’t proselytize (or is that not a rule?). How does one raise their objections to Catholicism (or defend their own faith) without proselytizing? And if the discussion of Orthodoxy is hereby sent to the non-Catholic forum, in light of how crowded the Eastern Christian forum was, won’t that flood the non-Catholic forum?

 

[ForeverAdam]

This is certainly a surprising change. However, the moderators have a right to run the Forum as they choose. For a while, I’ve noticed that the tone of the discussions have fallen to very low levels. Hopefully, the new format will be conductive to more profitable dialogue between our Churches. And despite this change I hope that we (Orthodox Christians) will still be given a chance to response in love to the beliefs espoused by Roman and Eastern-rite Catholics.

God bless,

Adam

 

[Joab_Anias]

Have you? Maybe not you, but there are hard charging Romans who would jump at any answer I (a couple posters I have in mind) would give and give it a nasty twist.

I agree, and I hardly think CAF is advocating a toleration of that either.

Teresa’s statements say it all.

Peace.

 

[Joab_Anias]

And I wonder about these sorts of rules that the Orthodox can’t proselytize (or is that not a rule?). How does one raise their objections to Catholicism (or defend their own faith) without proselytizing? And if the discussion of Orthodoxy is hereby sent to the non-Catholic forum, in light of how crowded the Eastern Christian forum was, won’t that flood the non-Catholic forum?

There are already some suggestions on how that can be accomplished if you read back.

Peace.

 

[vocatio]

I say exchange addresses and send em swords to fight it out.

Why not create an Apologetics Thread for Eastern Christianity with warnings all over it and maybe do the above if all else fails.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

That maybe but the Eastern Christian forum had the advantage of concentrating Eastern Thought and Theology in one forum where you wouldnt have to go searching here or there on different forums to get a collective idea of it. It was all in one place. And easier to deal with. Now, that is all gone. It will be scattered and to some that is the point.

Ahhh… but therein lies the problem.

The Eastern Thought and Theology is not exclusive to Orthodox. That’s the impression that the old forum was giving. Catholics have an Eastern counterpart - and I think the Moderators want to focus on that.

Don’t worry, I’m sure we Catholics can do a good job in explaining the Orthodox point of view.

In all honesty, I think the Orthodox friends have a right to feel dejected. They were at home in the old forum. But I think Moderators have a right to keep this forum and Web site as a witness to the Pope (if you know what I mean). I mean, who pays for this forum anyway? (I know I’ve contributed, although my title doesn’t reflect with a “Forum Supporter” tag… Booo!!! Ok, sorry, back to the thread.)

 

[Papa_Gregorio]

Anybody else experiencing “old-forum” withdrawal symptoms?

 

[Mannyfit75]

It’s been rather slow. Um, I don’t if this right for me to say this why couldn’t CAF have to forums for specifically for Eastern Orthodox?

We can have both, can’t we?

 

[NewAbdalMaseeh]

There are already some suggestions on how that can be accomplished if you read back.

With all due respect, I have read all six pages, and I just don’t see how the question of ‘defending one’s faith without proselytizing’ is adequately addressed. It seems like the Orthodox are going to be severely handicapped in discussions.

 

[Woodstock]

The EC discussion used to be in Non-Catholic Religions. Back then it had sub-forums for the different religions. The EC sub-forum got big enough to become its own board.

I see no reason the Orthodox-Catholic dialogue should not move to Non-Catholic Religions and Apologetics while this new Eastern Catholicism board is used much like the Traditional Catholicism forum for Eastern and Oriental Catholics.

There are people of every stripe asking Catholics to defend Catholic teachings or who are defending non-Catholic teachings on Apologetics and Non-Catholic Religions, so I see no reason the Orthodox should worry about being treated differently.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

Well, this is a surprise! I thought my memory had really gotten bad, and then I realized that CAF just did a little reorganization. phew!

 

[RPConover]

With all due respect, the whole thing seems sort of cowardly to me. Eastern Catholics are supposed to be “Orthodox in communion with Rome” but apparently the posts of Orthodox Christians NOT in communion with Rome are so scary as to necessitate a virtual ban. Recently the most trouble was being caused by Latin Catholics who came into the forum on horseback wielding swords. So it goes, right?

This forum is essentially now dead.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

Though there were particular Orthodox posters who caused a lot of strife, it was the few zealous Latin brothers that inevitably tore me away from being on CAF.

I hope I wasn’t one of them.

 

[stashko]

Anybody else experiencing “old-forum” withdrawal symptoms?

i do …why don’t the change the roman catholic /Muslim disscussion forum they get more nasty their …what have we got to do with eastern catholic anyway as orthodox christians we have nothing in common with them anyway how many time can we discuss there watered down pale imitation of the othodox faith… …i wounder if they are going to lose all the orthodox posters here…suggestion create a orthodox christian sub forum for us …stashko

 

[Woodstock]

With all due respect, the whole thing seems sort of cowardly to me. Eastern Catholics are supposed to be “Orthodox in communion with Rome” but apparently the posts of Orthodox Christians NOT in communion with Rome are so scary as to necessitate a virtual ban. Recently the most trouble was being caused by Latin Catholics who came into the forum on horseback wielding swords. So it goes, right?

This forum is essentially now dead.

Who says Orthodox can’t post? They didn’t delete the threads. You can still read them all in the archive. No one said it is banned. They said that proselytization doesn’t go on their new Eastern Catholicism board. Are you trying to proselytize? Well then you shouldn’t have a problem!

If you think Orthodox-Catholic dialogue is important (as I do) then show it by going to Apologetics or Non-Catholic Religions and posting. If they said no proselytization and all the Orthodox leave, that won’t say much for the purposes and motivations of Orthodox posting here.

 

[NewAbdalMaseeh]

The EC discussion used to be in Non-Catholic Religions. Back then it had sub-forums for the different religions. The EC sub-forum got big enough to become its own board.

I see no reason the Orthodox-Catholic dialogue should not move to Non-Catholic Religions and Apologetics while this new Eastern Catholicism board is used much like the Traditional Catholicism forum for Eastern and Oriental Catholics.

I am in agreement with you, but the problem I see is that, at present, there is no more forum for Eastern Orthodoxy. In other words, I agree that it is a good idea to have a forum dedicated to learning about Eastern rites in Catholicism, and I like the idea of sub-forums in the non-Catholic section. But at present no sub-forum exists. And worse, post #40 in this thread gave me the strong impression that the Orthodox are not welcome in the non-Catholic forum either if they are going to actually try to defend their positions. I agree with RPConover to a small degree that this looks like something along the lines of a ‘virtual ban’.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

What is the trick to explaining an answer without proselytizing?

An example might help explain. This is how I see the difference.

Evangelizing/Sharing the Faith/This is Good:
I believe that xyz doctrine is true because 1. Church Father quotes 2. Council extracts 3. my Church’s teaching, etc.

The logic of this doctrine is:

I think your view is in error for these reasons 1. - 2. - 3.

Proselytizing/Bad - Do not do:
Your Church is full of idiots. You’re all corrupt and idolaters. You cannot possibly be saved. You have ruined the world. How dare you continue to exist! Unless you convert to name of religion here you are surely doomed to eternal torment!

A little on the extreme side, but you get the point (I hope).

 

[RPConover]

Apparently according to the purpose statement, Eastern Catholics are allowed a forum solely to educate Roman Catholics on the exotic qualities of their Catholic Faith. How much more recognition of their second-class citizenship in the Catholic Church is necessary?