Fla.'s 'Father Oprah' joins Episcopal Church

[rlg94086]

I hope he switches to an Eastern Catholic or Orthodox Church instead of the Episcopal ecclesial community if he decides to remain a priest.

I’m pretty certain that neither the Eastern Rite nor the Orthodox Church allow a priest to marry…though they do ordain married men into the priesthood.

 

[Ana]

Hi Ana,

What is meant by “discipline” is that it is not dogma. In other words, the requirement for celibacy in the priesthood could be changed, if the Church decides to change it. In fact, the Eastern Rites allow for married priests (though, to be clear, no one who is ordained can marry after they are ordained) and the Western Rite does have married priests - married Protestant ministers who converted and received permission from the Vatican to become priests.

As far as celibacy for the individual priest, you are correct that it is a calling…and a gift.

Oh … you were referring to the other meaning of discipline. Thank you for rectifying my misinterpretation, and for not throwing a tomato.

God bless!

 

[cecilia97]

I think that is a little overstatement on your part. While genetics are not mentioned, the Catechism does say that the “genesis remains largely unexplained.” IOW…the Church does not deny the possibility of genetic/biological origin. In fact, your last sentence contradicts your statement regarding openness. If “we cannot say this or that” regarding the Magisterium’s stance on genetics vis-a-vis homosexuality, then you would have to say the stance is currently open…until it is closed by making a clear statement.

What is clear from the Church is that regardless of the origin of such desires, they can’t ever be approved. “Under no circumstances” seems pretty clear to me. I liken it to many other genetic or “natural” desires that may be found through current or future science.

One could make arguments about a whole host of “natural” desires that we have as human beings. Regardless of genetic or psychological origins, we still have laws and mores which limit the actions that one can take based on those desires. Homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered and can therefore will never be acceptable to the Church or faithful Catholics.

I agree with you, rlg. I’ve never learned that a Catholic cannot believe homosexuality MAY be genetic. The Church tends not to teach science, but theology.

HETEROsexuality is genetic, we can assume, and it’s still wrong to sleep with someone to whom you’re not married. So genetic homosexuality doesn’t mean that gay acts are OK.

Fr. Cutie should have enough respect for himself and God to give up his Catholic orders if he really has a problem with celibacy. Or he should not have taken vows to begin with. It is not God that needs to change, it is us. He needs our prayers.

 

[cecilia97]

Here is where the real problem lies. Genetic does not equal “normal.” If it is found that homosexual desire (regardless of whether it is a spectrum or a fixed inclination) is genetic, that does not mean it is “normal.” There are genetic anomalies. We won’t excuse behavior based on those anomalies. In fact, we may very well try to find a cure/fix for such genetic disorders.

My brother has a genetic, physical disability. He is still human and has the same rights as other humans, but it doesn’t make sense to say that his physical deformities are “normal” and therefore we shouldn’t try to find a cure, does it? If we can find a way to prevent or repair such deformities, then we will.

Absolutely…schizophrenia has a large genetic component, and it is not “normal”…i.e. the norm among humans.

 

[JReducation]

Fr. Cutie should have enough respect for himself and God to give up his Catholic orders if he really has a problem with celibacy. Or he should not have taken vows to begin with. It is not God that needs to change, it is us. He needs our prayers.

He cannot give up the priesthood. This is not allowed by the Church. A priest can receive a dispensation from the Holy See, only if the Holy See wishes to grant it, not because the priest wants it. Pope Benedict has made it quite clear to secular priests and to religious brothers that he will not give dispensations from priesthood or religious life to men.

Another note, Fr. Alberto did not make vows. I don’t understand why that is not clear to people. He is a diocesan priest. Diocesan priests are secular men. They do not make vows. Only religious men make vows. A diocesan priest makes a simple promise of celibacy and a simple promise of obedience to his bishop.

If he were in solemn vows he would be excommunicated already. Violating solemn vows incurs excommunication. He has not incurred excommunication or suspension. He was removed from his posts. He asked for a leave of absence, which was granted.

On the other hand, if he turns this into a media circus, he will most likely be suspended. That’s about as much as a bishop can do to a secular priest. Other than that, the bishop can offer options such as support to get through the situation, a transfer to another diocese and begin again, help to find a religious community that may take him (but that would be up to the religious to decide if they want him), or if he needs mental health treatment, the diocese can offer to send him to such a center and pay for his rehabilitation. To all of these offers that a bishop can make, the priest has the final word on whether he will take any of them.

When a man becomes a diocesan priest, the diocese is stuck with him. You cannot dismiss a priest from your diocese. You can suspend him from active ministry. But he remains a priest forever and if he chooses to celebrate the sacraments he can do so validly, except for confession and marriage. But they would be illicit, even his mass.

If a suspended priest persists in celebrating the sacraments ilicitly, the Church can excommunicate him. But that’s not usually done, because it does not stop the priest from celebrating the sacraments. Once ordained, the sacraments are valid, even though illegal. The only faculties that the bishop can take away from a diocesan priest are the faculties to hear confession, witness marriages and preach in a Catholic Church.

The best thing here is to pray for his congregation. Fr. Alberto comes from a parish that has suffered three loses in a row of three pastors that they loved.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[Ana]

The best thing here is to pray for his congregation. Fr. Alberto comes from a parish that has suffered three loses in a row of three pastors that they loved.

Fraternally,

JR

You are right, they must be suffering horribly over this.

 

[DeusVeritas]

Here is where the real problem lies. Genetic does not equal “normal.” If it is found that homosexual desire (regardless of whether it is a spectrum or a fixed inclination) is genetic, that does not mean it is “normal.” There are genetic anomalies. We won’t excuse behavior based on those anomalies. In fact, we may very well try to find a cure/fix for such genetic disorders.

My brother has a genetic, physical disability. He is still human and has the same rights as other humans, but it doesn’t make sense to say that his physical deformities are “normal” and therefore we shouldn’t try to find a cure, does it? If we can find a way to prevent or repair such deformities, then we will.

I understand that genetic anomalies does not mean normal. **Depression and schizophrenia ** runs in my family, so if anyone knows about “not normal” its me. And yes, if there is a genetic reason why some people are are homosexual and others are not then a cure should be found but then we get into a very gray area of grave confusion.

If homosexuality is a genetic anomaly then its possible that sinful behavior can also be considered a genetic anomaly and if so then the Christian model of morality and God will no longer be of value as a whole to humanity if it is found that any genetic abnormality that causes abnormal human behaviors (rape, murder, theft) can be cured.

Every devout Catholic can clap and be happy if a cure is found for homosexuality through genetics…but what will that mean to the Catholic Church?

 

[DeusVeritas]

Congratulations.

My husband and I had our 40th last June. Just a private supper with the kids and a Blessing from the priest.

HAPPY ANNIVERSARY’S to both of you. And may you both have MANY more.

Oh, and HAPPY MOTHER’S DAY TO ALL MOM’S ON CAF!!! :flowers:

 

[rlg94086]

I understand that genetic anomalies does not mean normal. **Depression and schizophrenia ** runs in my family, so if anyone knows about “not normal” its me. And yes, if there is a genetic reason why some people are are homosexual and others are not then a cure should be found but then we get into a very gray area of grave confusion.

If homosexuality is a genetic anomaly then its possible that sinful behavior can also be considered a genetic anomaly and if so then the Christian model of morality and God will no longer be of value as a whole to humanity if it is found that any genetic abnormality that causes abnormal human behaviors (rape, murder, theft) can be cured.

Every devout Catholic can clap and be happy if a cure is found for homosexuality through genetics…but what will mean to the Catholic Church?

I’m not sure what you are asking. The Catholic Church is not against medical advancements when it comes to cures for genetic anomalies. She is against aborting someone for a genetic issue, but not for curing it. Ironically, if a genetic marker is found for homosexuality, you can bet that pro-choice “liberals” would abort a child that is going to be born with a same-sex inclination. Devout Catholics would not.

 

[DeusVeritas]

Congratulations.

My husband and I had our 40th last June. Just a private supper with the kids and a Blessing from the priest.

I’m not sure what you are asking. The Catholic Church is not against medical advancements when it comes to cures for genetic anomalies. She is against aborting someone for a genetic issue, but not for curing it. Ironically, if a genetic marker is found for homosexuality, you can bet that pro-choice “liberals” would abort a child that is going to be born with a same-sex inclination. Devout Catholics would not.

I’ve never spoken of the Catholic Church being against medical advancements. My comments where I ended with the question are more in the line of what would happen if the aforementioned were to become a reality.

First, homosexuality is cured genetically, then the impulses to rape, murder, steal and lust after another for example is also cured genetically. This is what I mean by asking what would this mean to the Catholic Church. The whole model of Christianity morality would be looked at as outdated and un-necessary for humanity’s advancement because it can be cured through genetics.

Anyway, I am way off topic here LOL so I will no longer comment on this.

Hope all the Mom’s had as blessed a day as I had with my own mom.

 

[Norminha]

I still say, one way or another, this matters is BETWEEN THE PRIEST AND GOD and never BETWEEN ME AND THE PRIEST. I am the same as the Magdalene.

If Father Cute, couldn’t be faithful to his vows of celibacy, which is a gift from God and be a responsible Catholic Priest, believe me, he’ll never be a responsible pastor or whatever is the title in the Episcopal or any other denomination, if the sensation of news was true.

May God have mercy on him and all sinners.
St. Mary Magdalene pray for us sinners!!!

 

[cecilia97]

I don’t understand why that is not clear to people.

Thanks for the info, JR. Quite simply, this is not clear to people because our Catholic education system was ridiculously poor for many years.

I was trying to say that Fr. Cutie should be held to a very strict standard. Everyone should. Our society accepts that people make marriage vows that they don’t really intend to keep. Now we have a priest running around on TV talking about how he doesn’t agree with celibacy? Why did he become a priest, then? It’s still my opinion that Fr. Cutie should get the strictest treatment the Church can give him.

 

[rguerra]

I don’t want to judge Father Alberto but if he decides to leave the RCC and join the Episcopal Church, he will doing so for selfish reasons, to satisfy his own carnal desires to be with a woman. In other words, he would join a church that fits his lifestyle instead of adjusting his lifestyle to fit the Church.

It is also sad that he is thinking about joining the Episcopal church which is part of the Anglican community that was founded by a king (Henry VIII) only to follow his own selfish desires to divorce his valid wife and marry another woman. I guess it is fitting that he ends up in such a church… Good riddance !

 

[JReducation]

I don’t want to judge Father Alberto but if he decides to leave the RCC and join the Episcopal Church, he will doing so for selfish reasons, to satisfy his own carnal desires to be with a woman. In other words, he would join a church that fits his lifestyle instead of adjusting his lifestyle to fit the Church.

Good riddance !

It is not for us to make such a judgment. Even the local bishop has said that such a judgment is not for him to make. The only judgment that the Church can make is an objective one. The promise of celibacy was violated. The reasons for his future action are between him, God and the local bishop. The local bishop and the Vatican seem to prefer that it remain that way.

Religious, clergy and laity in the archdiocese have been instructed not to make moral judgments, except those that are objective. Judgment of the individual’s motives are not objective unless he actually makes such statements.

Fr. Albert has actually praised the Church’s wisdom, her mercy and the support of the bishop, priests, laity and religious in the archdiocese. He is being given time and space to discern his next step. He is greatly appreciative for that.

He also said that he does not wish to become the poster boy for a married clergy, because he believes that celibacy is good for the Church and the priesthood; but he has failed to reach the mark. He has also said that he is guilty of breaking his promise of celibacy and that he has struggled with it for many years. He would like to see an optional celibacy for those who are married and wish to be priests; but that’s not an inmoral desire and is not applicable to him. Married men can become priests, priests cannot become married men.

This is obviously a man caught in a profound spiritual struggle. He deserves compassion and good guidance at this time. The Archbishop is providing that. We should thank God for such bishops. What Fr. Albert does with that guidance is between him, God and the hierarchy. Only God can judge a soul. We can only judge what we see, actions, not motives that we don’t see, unless the person chooses to share them with us.

If he leaves the Catholic Church so that he can marry, we can judge the action as wrong. But we cannot judge the person as bad. They are not the same thing. Many of us have been wrong about many things, including morals. But that does not make us bad people.

As my superior said, the Church is like a hospital. It is for the sick, not the healthy. Angels belong in heaven and sinners in Church. Which leads me to believe that none of us is beyond doing something stupid. The question is how do we go about recovering and protecting others from further hurt.

Our holy father Francis said that we must practice compassion in all things, fraternal correction often, and judgment with discretion.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Norminha]

AMEN, BROTHER!!!

It is not for us to make such a judgment.

The reasons for his future action are between him, God and the local bishop.

I appreciate the gift of wisdom our Lord has bestowed upon you. I needed to hear your words of compassion and reconciliation during these difficult moments one of our brothers is going through. I’m praying specially for all my priests, deacons and all religious brothers and sisters that are under so much attack by the enemy and humilliated by his own brethren. God is so powerful that no matter how big the sins of our poor priests are, His compassion goes beyond our imagination. Our ways are not His ways.

I’m going to do my act of contrition for I have sinned against my God and Lord.

Good night!

 

[bobzills]

What Fr. Albert does with that guidance is between him, God and the hierarchy. Only God can judge a soul. We can only judge what we see, actions, not motives that we don’t see, unless the person chooses to share them with us.

The perception of many is that he enjoys being in the public eye.

 

[rguerra]

It is not for us to make such a judgment.

Thank you Brother for your comments. I do agree that it’s not for me to make such a judgment and I apologize for that but you should understand that as a hispanic Catholic from Miami I feel cheated by his actions because I actually believed in him as a model of Roman Catholicism. I went to several of his masses and attended several speeches he made. I feel disillusioned and angry at myself for having believed in him when actually he was preaching one thing and doing another. He wanted to continue to be a priest but at the same time had no respect for the chastity promises he made to our Lord and His Church. If he did not live up to that promise then who knows if any part of his other teachings were true ? His integrity is a big question mark for me.

I think it would have been much more honorable for him to have left the priesthood voluntarily and without tarnishing the image of our Holy Roman Cathollic Church. He only thought about himself and his own desires when he went to that public beach with that woman. Who knows how many people with weak faiths will leave the Church because of his actions ? I thank the Lord that I have a strong faith, having graduated from a Jesuit high school and university and also from the formation I received at home from my parents but most Catholics are not as blessed with these advantages. In my humble opinion Father Alberto should’ve had more concern for how his illicit relationship with that woman would affect the faithful.

Ad maiorem Dei gloriam !

 

[phes3]

Father Alberto Cutie was…(?) very well known in Miami Area, he made a vow when he was ordained to be a catholic priest; include celibacy…if he have any doubts he should stop that relationship when he realize that can not be strong and obedient,… Do the right thing, be honest with the church and do not precipitate this scandal with his behavior. He fail to the Lord. (He can’t lie to God)…:tsktsk:. I think since he fell in love with a woman, with 2 children 15 a nd 5 years old, divorced from the father of the 1st child. (we don’t known who’s the second child’s father) we don’t really care about it but…, The bible said anyone who married a divorced man or women is an a adulter and is a sinner (we all are) . Then father Alberto can not be a catholic priest or even a catholic anymore.:dts: If he decide to leave the church to “acomodate” his life, he cannot be even a deacon.We really are living the ends of time. Just a few will be called worthy and saved, for giving his entire life for Jesus. Our Lord said that if we want to be saved, we must carried our cross and follow him. I think father Alberto left his cross behind him couples years ago. and the lady as a catholic when she saw him for the 1st. time show respect for him as a priest; a man who commit his life to God. I don’t think she is really a catholic… maybe from any christian denomination but never a catholic.Very sad conclusion but true, I hope God enlight him to make the right decision. I will pray for father Cutie

 

[JReducation]

My dearest brothers and sisters:

While it is true that these events shake us and often hurt very deeply, because of the trust that we place in different people and the level of respect that we have for them, it is also true that truth remains truth, even if it comes from Satan himself. Let us not forget what Jesus said when he was tempted in the desert. “Even the devil can quote scripture.” Does that make it any less the Word of God, because the devil quotes it?

The same applies to sinful man. Man is sinful. And it was for sinful man that Christ opened his arms on the cross. It was our sinful humanity that Mary took under her wing and adopted as mother.

Let us reflect on this for a moment. Jesus and Mary were both victims. Nonetheless, they embrace humanity and they elevate it to a state that is acceptable to the Father.

Thus, it was possible for Peter, who denied Christ three times, who would have denied our anscestors the Gentiles admission to the Church, an unjust act indeed . . . thus it was possible for Peter to assume the role of the Good Shepherd and become his vicar. Because Chirst operated through him and Saul, despite their sinfulness.

Truth is not dependent on man’s sanctity, nor is it deleted by man’s sinfulness. Truth is what it is, regardless of the prophet. Whatever truth Fr. Albert has taught through the years continues to be truth and it should be observed and treasured in our hearts.

As a Franciscan Brother, I encourage all of you to thank God for the graces that we have received through Fr. Albert. Those graces do not come from Fr. Albert, but through him. God can use whatever tool he wishes as his instrument, even an a dull and tiny pencil.

While Father’s sin against celibacy is a cause of sadness, the grace that Christ has imparted through him is a cause of celebration. Let us recall the number of Eucharists that he celebrated, the many sins that he absolved, the many children and adults that he brought into the Church through baptism, the married couples whose vows he witnessed and received in the name of the Church. These graces cannot come from any other source, but God.

Finally, I will add a personal thought. I have the right to feel disappointment, even anger, when my Church and my faith is portrayed in a bad light. But I shall never throw a stone at the person who does so; because until I am dead, I have no idea whether or not I shall be faithful to the end. This event reminds me to pray to God for my immortal soul and for my mortal flesh that is weak, that he may strengthen me in my resolve to observe what I have promised unto death.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

JReducation;5190015:

It is not for us to make such a judgment.

Thank you Brother for your comments. I do agree that it’s not for me to make such a judgment and I apologize for that but you should understand that as a hispanic Catholic from Miami I feel cheated by his actions because I actually believed in him as a model of Roman Catholicism. I went to several of his masses and attended several speeches he made. I feel disillusioned and angry at myself for having believed in him when actually he was preaching one thing and doing another. He wanted to continue to be a priest but at the same time had no respect for the chastity promises he made to our Lord and His Church. If he did not live up to that promise then who knows if any part of his other teachings were true ? His integrity is a big question mark for me.

I think it would have been much more honorable for him to have left the priesthood voluntarily and without tarnishing the image of our Holy Roman Cathollic Church. He only thought about himself and his own desires when he went to that public beach with that woman. Who knows how many people with weak faiths will leave the Church because of his actions ? I thank the Lord that I have a strong faith, having graduated from a Jesuit high school and university and also from the formation I received at home from my parents but most Catholics are not as blessed with these advantages. In my humble opinion Father Alberto should’ve had more concern for how his illicit relationship with that woman would affect the faithful.

Ad maiorem Dei gloriam !

 

[soflochristmas]

It is not for us to make such a judgment. Even the local bishop has said that such a judgment is not for him to make. The only judgment that the Church can make is an objective one. The promise of celibacy was violated. The reasons for his future action are between him, God and the local bishop. The local bishop and the Vatican seem to prefer that it remain that way.

Not to be overly picky but has he really violated a promise of celibacy? He hasn’t gotten married. If anything he’s broken a promise of chastity, which all unmarried people are called to do by the Church.