Fla.'s 'Father Oprah' joins Episcopal Church

[DonLeon]

OK so I was not 100% accurate. What do you think about gambling in the church such as raffles and church bazaars to raise money? I think it’s similar to the money changers.

I have a good point. Much of what the Church teaches today was not taught then so were they Catholics? Would they be accepted in the Church today or would they be called cafeteria catholics?

There is a BIG difference there. Cafeteria catholics are those that pick and chose to
believe whatever teachings, doctrines, dogmas, etc. that suits their fancy and reject the rest. Many of them do not accept transubstantiation, or the Virgin birth, or the perpetual virginity of Mary, or the infallibilty of the Pope, and so on. Also, all of what the CC teaches today was taught back then. As I’ve said in an earlier post, the church explains and clarifies what has been taught down through the ages by maybe a new means or method, but it is NOT a new teaching.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[JReducation]

There is a BIG difference there. Cafeteria catholics are those that pick and chose to
believe whatever teachings, doctrines, dogmas, etc. that suits their fancy and reject the rest. Many of them do not accept transubstantiation, or the Virgin birth, or the perpetual virginity of Mary, or the infallibilty of the Pope, and so on. Also, all of what the CC teaches today was taught back then. As I’ve said in an earlier post, the church explains and clarifies what has been taught down through the ages by maybe a new means or method, but it is NOT a new teaching.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Sometims people think that a rewording of something or expanding an idea is introducing a new doctrine. That is not the case. You are right. The Church does not change her teachings. She changes how she teaches or how she words things, but the content is the same.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[ron77nyc]

There is a BIG difference there. Cafeteria catholics are those that pick and chose to
believe whatever teachings, doctrines, dogmas, etc. that suits their fancy and reject the rest. Many of them do not accept transubstantiation, or the Virgin birth, or the perpetual virginity of Mary, or the infallibilty of the Pope, and so on. Also, all of what the CC teaches today was taught back then. As I’ve said in an earlier post, the church explains and clarifies what has been taught down through the ages by maybe a new means or method, but it is NOT a new teaching.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Today those doctrines must be accepted before new converts are baptized. Was that the way the apostles did it? The Jews wanted the new believers to be circumcised and this was the response to that:

**Acts 15:10 “Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 “But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.”

19 “Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles, 20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.**

28 “For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:
29 that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell.”

When was the last time you heard a teaching on abstaining from food sacrificed to idols and from things strangled? Fornication is still applicable but that’s only 1 out of 3. They completely omitted the pope, virgin birth, transubstantiation and most of the catechism.

 

[JReducation]

Today those doctrines must be accepted before new converts are baptized. Was that the way the apostles did it? The Jews wanted the new believers to be circumcised and this was the response to that:

**Acts 15:10 “Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 “But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.”

19 “Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles, 20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.**

28 “For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:
29 that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell.”

When was the last time you heard a teaching on abstaining from food sacrificed to idols and from things strangled? Fornication is still applicable but that’s only 1 out of 3. They completely omitted the pope, virgin birth, transubstantiation and most of the catechism.

The points that you say they omited were not called into question until much later. So they were not really omitted. They simply were not issues on the table. But they were part of the faith of the early Church.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[DonLeon]

The points that you say they omited were not called into question until much later. So they were not really omitted. They simply were not issues on the table. But they were part of the faith of the early Church.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

I would also like to add that the catechism is a fairly recent innovation. It is a compilation of the teachings of Jesus, through the apostles, presented by the CC and explained in a
language that is more or less easy for all to understand.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[bobzills]

All those you mentioned do good works but the guy who repented before dying did nothing good after he repented. He did not have the opportunity.

Generally, a person will have to spend time in Purgatory before going to heaven according to Catholic belief. It might be p;ossible in some cases to get this time reduced or eliminated by various prayers or intercessions.
Catholics believe in faith and good works and I go along with this according to what I read in Matthew 25 and in Matthew 7:21

 

[japhy]

When was the last time you heard a teaching on abstaining from food sacrificed to idols and from things strangled? Fornication is still applicable but that’s only 1 out of 3. They completely omitted the pope, virgin birth, transubstantiation and most of the catechism.

Those three were “burdens” of the Jewish law. Gentiles did not need to undergo the whole Jewish law, only those three particular burdens. The rest of the rule of faith and morals in the Church was separate: it was the teaching of Jesus and the Apostles.

If you take such a reductionist stance, then the Gentiles didn’t need to believe that Jesus was God, or that murder is wrong, or that stealing is wrong, etc. The three things mentioned were not the only three “articles of faith”. (They’re really articles of morality.)

 

[DeoSalvatoreMeo]

OK so I was not 100% accurate. What do you think about gambling in the church such as raffles and church bazaars to raise money? I think it’s similar to the money changers.

I have a good point. Much of what the Church teaches today was not taught then so were they Catholics? Would they be accepted in the Church today or would they be called cafeteria catholics?

What’s wrong with church festivals and raffles? I don’t get it. Do you know what a money changer is? People come to a church festival to socialize and have fun. There is nothing fun about money changing and being ripped off. I don’t get your point. I don’t see one.

Well, the Church didn’t teach about cloning in the first centuries… So, are you saying that the Church shouldn’t grow and respond over time to innovations or to more fully develop and understand teachings that have been with us since the first centuries? Again, not getting your point. If you want the Church to conform to you, there are plenty of churches to go shopping around and find one that fits your shoe size. The Church founded by Christ won’t conform to you, you must conform yourself to Christ and His Church. Otherwise, you are only here for ego and destructive reasons as far as I can see… Even Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI have said we must be united and in harmony in our beliefs.
Too many American Catholics think the Church is a democracy… It’s the middle-aged baby boomers, mostly, who still dream of 60s radical revolution and change within the Catholic Church. It’s not going to happen. The Church has weathered worse storms in its 2,000 year history. And younger Catholics are much more conservative and traditional than the groups agitating for the Church to conform to the trend of the day. Gay marriages, female priests, contraception… These things will never be accepted in the Church. Ever. If you don’t accept that, I know that there is an Episcopal church in Miami that will welcome you with open arms.

 

[DeoSalvatoreMeo]

OK, so I just finished reading ron77nyc’s later posts and it is filled with Protestant-speak. I’m curious as to why this person is listed as “Catholic” when they don’t sound fluent in Catholic-ese at all. I don’t want to accuse anyone of being dishonest, but I think you know where I’m going with this…

 

[pmoo]

what about your pedephile priests and the bishops and archbishops that “protect” them from the law by transfering them to a new parish out of the diocese or state ? what about all the popes in the middle ages who have had several illigitimate children ? or pregnant nuns YES this did happen and same with parish priests having children as well and dont forget the spanish inquisition so can you honestly say the RRC is God’s HOLY and True Church ? Perhaps Martin Luther was correct in showing the Pope ( LEO X) the sins and hiprocracy of the RCC of his day and age and for that matter the present church as well MIA CULPA MIA CULPA MIA MAXIMA CULPA . One other thing I have seen since I joined this site is the Arogant pride and total hatred and outright rudeness of the members toward any Protestant Church which is directly and purposefully pointed toward ANGLICANS/EPISCOPAL and LUTHERAN churches . In your totasl ignorance of apostolic successsion you have forgotten that 3 of the gernam electors who were followers of Luther were 2 BISHOPS and 1 Archbishop who later properly ordained other LUTHERAN PASTORS and made LUTHERAN ORDINATIONS VALID

What about them? Of course they are wrong, also, but this thread is about Fr. Cutie.

 

[stanncie]

To get back in topic i live in Miami and today in church we had an interesting homily.

Instead of the usual homily the pastor read the archbishop’s letter , translated into Spanish because this was a Spanish mass and then proceeded to go into a discussion about it.

I enjoyed it very much because i hadn’t heard such passion in a while! He said he was terribly hurt by the whole scandal and how it hurt all of the priests who were living a celibate life and keeping their promises.
He then went into a rant about cafeteria Catholics (Fr. Cutie?) and how the church is not there to please people but only to please God. Everyone clapped at this point!
He also talked about how in the parish we were in there were 7 ex episcopalian priests that had converted and that the catholic church had never made a fuss about it unlike the episcopalian bishop who announced it to the world.

To end he said that the church had gone through much worse and that this too shall pass.

I think people were pleased to hear this talked about as the controversy here has reached ridiculous heights.

 

[ron77nyc]

What’s wrong with church festivals and raffles? I don’t get it. Do you know what a money changer is? People come to a church festival to socialize and have fun. There is nothing fun about money changing and being ripped off. I don’t get your point. I don’t see one.

Raffles and church bazaars are gambling. It’s using a vice to raise money for the church.

Well, the Church didn’t teach about cloning in the first centuries… So, are you saying that the Church shouldn’t grow and respond over time to innovations or to more fully develop and understand teachings that have been with us since the first centuries? Again, not getting your point. If you want the Church to conform to you, there are plenty of churches to go shopping around and find one that fits your shoe size. The Church founded by Christ won’t conform to you, you must conform yourself to Christ and His Church. Otherwise, you are only here for ego and destructive reasons as far as I can see… Even Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI have said we must be united and in harmony in our beliefs.
Too many American Catholics think the Church is a democracy… It’s the middle-aged baby boomers, mostly, who still dream of 60s radical revolution and change within the Catholic Church. It’s not going to happen. The Church has weathered worse storms in its 2,000 year history. And younger Catholics are much more conservative and traditional than the groups agitating for the Church to conform to the trend of the day. Gay marriages, female priests, contraception… These things will never be accepted in the Church. Ever. If you don’t accept that, I know that there is an Episcopal church in Miami that will welcome you with open arms.

What made the early church Catholic? Catholics have celibate priests, communion of saints, the rosary, the mass. The early Christians didn’t have those things so what made them Catholic?

 

[ron77nyc]

OK, so I just finished reading ron77nyc’s later posts and it is filled with Protestant-speak. I’m curious as to why this person is listed as “Catholic” when they don’t sound fluent in Catholic-ese at all. I don’t want to accuse anyone of being dishonest, but I think you know where I’m going with this…

I already explained this to someone who accused me of being inspired by satan. I was baptized and confirmed a Catholic. I went to Catholic school. I have a lot of questions about what I was taught. I see that when I ask questions people either get annoyed, evasive, abusive or they change the subject.

 

[rlg94086]

Raffles and church bazaars are gambling. It’s using a vice to raise money for the church.

I’m not sure where you get your instruction, but what you posted is not true.

2413 Games of chance (card games, etc.) or wagers are not in themselves contrary to justice. They become morally unacceptable when they deprive someone of what is necessary to provide for his needs and those of others. The passion for gambling risks becoming an enslavement. Unfair wagers and cheating at games constitute grave matter, unless the damage inflicted is so slight that the one who suffers it cannot reasonably consider it significant.

So, if you cheat at a Church bingo or a raffle, then you have sinned.

 

[ron77nyc]

Generally, a person will have to spend time in Purgatory before going to heaven according to Catholic belief. It might be p;ossible in some cases to get this time reduced or eliminated by various prayers or intercessions.
Catholics believe in faith and good works and I go along with this according to what I read in Matthew 25 and in Matthew 7:21

Do you realize there is no such thing as time in God’s kingdom?
How do you know when to stop praying for a person in purgatory? They may be out before you get started.

 

[ron77nyc]

I’m not sure where you get your instruction, but what you posted is not true.

So, if you cheat at a Church bingo or a raffle, then you have sinned.

Well isn’t it providing an occasion of sin to a person with a gambling problem? With that logic we could have a swimsuit model competition or a beauty pageant and it would be OK as long as you don’t cheat on your wife.

 

[rlg94086]

Well isn’t it providing an occasion of sin to a person with a gambling problem? With that logic we could have a swimsuit model competition or a beauty pageant and it would be OK as long as you don’t cheat on your wife.

Interesting. So, no wine or beer at Catholic feasts because it provides an occasion of sin to alcoholics? For that matter, no meals at all…provides an occasion of sin to those inclined to gluttony.

Your points are ridiculous. The sinner is to avoid the occasion of sin. If they have a problem with gambling, gluttony, etc., they shouldn’t attend or participate in such events.

 

[ron77nyc]

Interesting. So, no wine or beer at Catholic feasts because it provides an occasion of sin to alcoholics? For that matter, no meals at all…provides an occasion of sin to those inclined to gluttony.

Your points are ridiculous.

Not really. The monsignor at my parish is a recovering alcoholic. Alcohol is not permitted at church dinners. Eating is a necessity. No one gets through this life without eating.

 

[rlg94086]

Not really. The monsignor at my parish is a recovering alcoholic. Alcohol is not permitted at church dinners. Eating is a necessity. No one gets through this life without eating.

Sounds like your monsignor and/or pastoral council made that decision, but it doesn’t mean that it is a Church stance. Please post something from your monsignor stating that alcohol at Church events is wrong according to the Church. While you are at it, ask him to write something explaining how the Church is opposed to raffles and bingo because gambling is a vice.

If you can produce such statements, I will at least understand where your instruction is coming from. Otherwise, it is pretty clear that you don’t understand Church teaching. The sinner who has a problem with gambling should avoid occasion of sin (i.e. don’t go to or participate in the raffle), but there is no prohibition of a Church having a raffle or other fundraiser.

 

[DeoSalvatoreMeo]

Not really. The monsignor at my parish is a recovering alcoholic. Alcohol is not permitted at church dinners. Eating is a necessity. No one gets through this life without eating.

Drinking wine was permitted in the Bible. Please don’t try to create your own religion here…