Fla.'s 'Father Oprah' joins Episcopal Church

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Gabriella_San_S said:
Great words of St.Paul! They aptly apply to*** all unrepentant sinners***, Fr.Cutie,
Mel Gibson etc. etc. We can indicate** them** because of the public scandal…but those who kept silent about the sex-abuse scandal will also receive their** just** punishment
***.All ***will be held accountable-and all have access to the mercy of God, “especially the greatest sinners” (Our Lord to St.Faustina)
This should give us ***all ***comfort. God’s peace.
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No one has to worry about accountability in the next life. I’m talking about accountability in this life that is neglected due to a loophole in canon law that has allowed evil men to have freedom inside the Church.
 
bobzills said:
No. At the time of the Reformation it is well known that the monasteries were hotbeds of illicit activity. The religious may have taken a vow or a promise of celibacy, but many did not remain celibate.
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Oh Bob, for goodness sake, stop focussing on the exceptions and focus on the norm. You’ll be happier and you’ll have less to debate. Then you can use these forums and this time to explore new concepts and ideas. It’s fun. Trust me. 😛

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
JReducation said:
Oh Bob, for goodness sake, stop focussing on the exceptions and focus on the norm.
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This is an interesting idea: Focus on the norm. But there is a problem with it. And that is that the norm today may not be the norm tomorrow. For example, in 1950, it was the norm for the priest to say the Mass ad orientam, although there were a few exceptional cases mentioned in Catholic liturgical circles concerning priests who said Mass facing the faithful. Of course, all that has changed and now the norm is for the priest to face the people while celebrating Mass. For another example, in 1930, the norm was that a married couple very seldom requested a marriage annulment, and they were very difficult to obtain. In fact, in that year there were 9 marriage annulments in the USA. Of course, according to Father Doherty, the norm today is that marriage annulments are not all that difficult to obtain and this is seen by the statistical fact that they have been running to as many as 60,000 per year in the USA recently. There are a lot of examples like this. The norm yesterday was for women to wear headcovering in Church. The norm today is for women to pray in Church with their heads uncovered. The norm yesterday was for the Mass in Latin, the norm today is for the Mass in the vernacular.
So, if we focus only on the norm today, we may be out of step with what will be going on tomorrow.
 
bobzills said:
This is an interesting idea: Focus on the norm. But there is a problem with it. And that is that the norm today may not be the norm tomorrow. For example, in 1950, it was the norm for the priest to say the Mass ad orientam, although there were a few exceptional cases mentioned in Catholic liturgical circles concerning priests who said Mass facing the faithful. Of course, all that has changed and now the norm is for the priest to face the people while celebrating Mass. For another example, in 1930, the norm was that a married couple very seldom requested a marriage annulment, and they were very difficult to obtain. In fact, in that year there were 9 marriage annulments in the USA. Of course, according to Father Doherty, the norm today is that marriage annulments are not all that difficult to obtain and this is seen by the statistical fact that they have been running to as many as 60,000 per year in the USA recently. There are a lot of examples like this. The norm yesterday was for women to wear headcovering in Church. The norm today is for women to pray in Church with their heads uncovered. The norm yesterday was for the Mass in Latin, the norm today is for the Mass in the vernacular.
So, if we focus only on the norm today, we may be out of step with what will be going on tomorrow.
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Ok Bob, it is obvious that you have some reason to go back into history and find every argument for every thing that happens today. I have no idea why. I don’t know if you do either. Sometimes we’re aware of our motivators and sometimes we’re not.

In any case, I can’t engage in a fraternal dialogue with you because you find an exception to every attempt we make to help you feel comfortable with the Church or every attempt that we make to explain something.

I realize that the human beings who make up the Church are not perfect. But I for one am the first to admit that I’m not perfect either and I do not have the answers. Unless someone is trying to do harm I have to trust and keep going. Life and faith are too complex. There is a great deal that needs to be done in the name of the Lord. The journey toward an intimate union with the Lord is a lifelong work. Therefore, I can’t spend all of my time and energy on issues that are not in my power to solve.

We have to focus our energy and our attention. I am reminded of our holy father Francis who wanted to conquer the world for Christ. Eventually he had to focus his attention on his brothers. When he went to Sister Clare for advice she told him to focus on preaching the Gospel to Catholics and converting them back to the perfect charity. She helped him narrow his focus. I believe this is what made him one of the greatest saints in the history of the Church.

When we narrow our focus to what we can do, we are more at peace and we are also more dependant on Divine Providence.

This is not an easy proposal, but it is a spiritually healthy one.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
JReducation said:
Ok Bob, it is obvious that you have some reason to go back into history and find every argument for every thing that happens today. I have no idea why. I don’t know if you do either. Sometimes we’re aware of our motivators and sometimes we’re not.

In any case, I can’t engage in a fraternal dialogue with you because you find an exception to every attempt we make to help you feel comfortable with the Church or every attempt that we make to explain something.

I realize that the human beings who make up the Church are not perfect. But I for one am the first to admit that I’m not perfect either and I do not have the answers. Unless someone is trying to do harm I have to trust and keep going. Life and faith are too complex. There is a great deal that needs to be done in the name of the Lord. The journey toward an intimate union with the Lord is a lifelong work. Therefore, I can’t spend all of my time and energy on issues that are not in my power to solve.

We have to focus our energy and our attention. I am reminded of our holy father Francis who wanted to conquer the world for Christ. Eventually he had to focus his attention on his brothers. When he went to Sister Clare for advice she told him to focus on preaching the Gospel to Catholics and converting them back to the perfect charity. She helped him narrow his focus. I believe this is what made him one of the greatest saints in the history of the Church.

When we narrow our focus to what we can do, we are more at peace and we are also more dependant on Divine Providence.

This is not an easy proposal, but it is a spiritually healthy one.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
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This has been an interesting discussion, but I am not sure that it was relevant to the anguish and conflicts faced by the good Father Cutie. Obviously, the Church has to have and enforce a certain discipline. However, this case does bring up the several questions and points of discussion and of course, one of those would be the question of celibacy and its place in the Catholic Church today.
 
bobzills said:
This has been an interesting discussion, but I am not sure that it was relevant to the anguish and conflicts faced by the good Father Cutie. Obviously, the Church has to have and enforce a certain discipline. However, this case does bring up the several questions and points of discussion and of course, one of those would be the question of celibacy and its place in the Catholic Church today.
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Which the Holy Father has already said is not up for discussion. So the topic is a waste of time. We can’t change the rules The only person with the authority to change the rules if the Vicar of Christ and he has spoken.

We should move on to more constructive topics, such as understanding the rules of the Church, the difference between secular priests and religioius priests, the difference between a promise of celibacy and a solemn vow of celibacy, the history of celibacy and the graces that come from celibacy. These topics will help us become more informed Catholics and may also help people discern if they truly have a vocation to either the priesthood or the religious life.

Our life is a journey. We can’t get stuck on one point that is not up for discussion. There comes a point when we obey and move along. St. Benedict always said that the greatest virtue of a monk was a loving obedience. That still has validity today.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
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