M
Florida's GOP gubernatorial nominee says a vote for his black opponent would 'monkey this up'
- Thread starter LeafByNiggle
- Start date
- Status
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
This chaining from Naziism to Socialism to Single-payer health insurance reminds me of Harold Hill’s song “Ya Got Trouble” from The Music Man:JonNC:
Right, 'cause Bernie Sanders belongs in the same category as Pol Pot and Hitler.
Parenthetically, you seem to have picked up the habit from abucs of insisting that Naziism is the same as Communism, which is, of course, factually untrue.
It’s just a rhetorical trick, enabling those who use it to say “Naziism is the same as Socialism. And you know what’s socialist? Single-payer health insurance! So if you want Medicare for all, you’re really a Nazi! QED!”
That’s a bit of a reductio ad absurdam, but I think my point stands.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
And it is also worth repeating that no system of private schooling has ever in the history of the world been shown to be able to educate as large a proportion of the population as well as a public school system. If you only want schooling for the elite, then sure, private schools can do a great job, and very efficiently too, since they don’t have to bother with pesky details like accepting all students, including special needs kids. It has never been done. Ever. Anywhere.LeafByNiggle:
worth repeating …
government … the least efficient provider.
M
MonteRCMS
Guest
Allow parents to use school vouchers for school choice.
Here are our government school results.
Those with the lowest graduation rates include Indianapolis ( 31 percent ), Cleveland ( 34 percent ), Detroit ( 38 percent ), Milwaukee ( 41 percent ), Baltimore ( 41 percent ), Atlanta ( 44 percent ), Los Angeles ( 44 percent ), Las Vegas ( 45 percent ), and Columbus ( 45 percent ).
U.S. students declined in average math scores in the latest round of international testing, ranking below 36 countries or educational systems out of more than 70 that participated.
U.S. students showed no signs of improvement in science and reading.
Here are our government school results.
Those with the lowest graduation rates include Indianapolis ( 31 percent ), Cleveland ( 34 percent ), Detroit ( 38 percent ), Milwaukee ( 41 percent ), Baltimore ( 41 percent ), Atlanta ( 44 percent ), Los Angeles ( 44 percent ), Las Vegas ( 45 percent ), and Columbus ( 45 percent ).
U.S. students declined in average math scores in the latest round of international testing, ranking below 36 countries or educational systems out of more than 70 that participated.
U.S. students showed no signs of improvement in science and reading.
Last edited:
Since when are re-education camps part of socialism, but the fact is if he is a socialist he will have to advocate government control or ownership of the means of production.
If not, then he’s not a socialist. It doesn’t make his policies good, it just means he’s not a socialist.
Then it is his rhetoric. I’ve been pretty clear in the distinction between socialism economic model and governance models. What is true is that socialism eventually requires government force.
D
dvdjs
Guest
Do you have a source for these numbers.
That are not all that easy to reconcile with statewide rates and trends:
https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_coi.asp
https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_coi.asp
Loading…
www.governing.com
H
HarryStotle
Guest
I assumed that government ownership of the means of production was communism. Socialism is more like strict government control over the economy.
Nazi Germany was National Socialism precisely because the government held complete control over the economy, dictating to corporations, farmland owners, resource companies, etc., what and how they were to produce along with controlling wages, prices and access to markets.
H
HarryStotle
Guest
LOL. “Free in the sense that government taxes pay for it.”
Nothing like offloading government debt onto future taxpayers and thereby claiming it is “free” to current beneficiaries.
What is the definition of ‘free,’ again? When the government pays for it it is free?
And YOU don’t like words being misused.
H
HarryStotle
Guest
I suppose when abortion advocates began speaking of abortions only when the life of the mother was in danger and that only by a tribunal of physicians, you insisted that those who warned of the slippery slope ahead were engaging in “overheated rhetoric?”JonNC:
When you can point me to where Sanders advocated the violent overthrow of the capitalist class and the nationalization of the means of production and the sending of the bourgeoisie to re-education camps, we can talk about it.
Until then, it’s just overheated rhetoric.
And yet, here we are, wantonly killing the unborn for any reason and pretty much on the whim of the mother.
“Just overheated rhetoric,” you say. “Uh huh,” I say.
It appears that most of the progressive leftist causes have been rapidly moving forwards driven by heated rhetoric. No light, just a great deal of heat.
I stopped believing progressive apologists years ago. They just aren’t trustworthy and don’t, in the end, take any responsibility when things go wildly out of control after their reassurances that this time things will work out well.
Yeah, like YOU will be there to fix things when the revolution hits.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
We were talking about Gillum, Sanders, and Ocasio-Cortez. Strict control of the economy by government is not in the platform of any of these people.LeafByNiggle:
I assumed that government ownership of the means of production was communism. Socialism is more like strict government control over the economy.
Nazi Germany was National Socialism precisely because the government held complete control over the economy, dictating to corporations, farmland owners, resource companies, etc., what and how they were to produce along with controlling wages, prices and access to markets.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
It should be paid for by current taxes. That is not offloading government debt onto future taxpayers.LeafByNiggle:
LOL. “Free in the sense that government taxes pay for it.”
Nothing like offloading government debt onto future taxpayers and thereby claiming it is “free” to current beneficiaries.
That’s the sense in which you used it. I’m just trying to go along with you.
Last edited:
H
HarryStotle
Guest
What do you suppose the ACGR is?MonteRCMS:
Do you have a source for these numbers.
That are not all that easy to reconcile with statewide rates and trends:
COE - Public High School Graduation Rates
COE - Public High School Graduation Rates
http://www.governing.com/gov-data/high-school-graduation-rates-by-state.html
Now I might be wrong, and I’ll be the first to admit that after getting all the data, but I would assume that those students “who transfer out” would statistically include those who drop out for pretty much any reason.
That means the “graduation rate” doesn’t include those who drop out, but only those who don’t achieve passing grades.
It would be good to know what the drop out rates are to get a true picture of how many students actually graduate from the total number of individuals of that age.
So if 20% of every hundred students drop out after grade nine, and 10% in each following year, only half (50%) of students enrolled in grade nine are counted in the ACGR. And if the graduation rate of remaining grade 12s based on passing marks is 80%, that means only 40% (roughly speaking) of students enrolled in grade nine actually graduated grade 12.
Paints a completely different picture, no?
H
HarryStotle
Guest
That is the sense in which I used it?HarryStotle:
It should be paid for by current taxes. That is not offloading government debt onto future taxpayers.LeafByNiggle:
LOL. “Free in the sense that government taxes pay for it.”
Nothing like offloading government debt onto future taxpayers and thereby claiming it is “free” to current beneficiaries.
That’s the sense in which you used it. I’m just trying to go along with you.
Your idea of sarcasm. I presume?
LeafByNiggle:
Yeah, no. Public schools aren’t free. Someone is paying for them. The problem is that those who are paying for them (parents and taxpayers, generally) have little to no say in terms of how they are run, who is teaching their children and the content of instructional material.
People value the idea of education and having their children educated, they just don’t value the delivery system. That shows in a number of ways – truancy, student performance, parent involvement, etc.
Last edited:
H
HarryStotle
Guest
Except that CNN did take a position by NOT stating that “the people whose words they were reporting about” we’re actually misrepresenting what DeSantis actually said.HarryStotle:
If there is inaccuracy, it is not inaccuracy by CNN. As I said before, your complaint is not with CNN, but with the people whose words they were reporting about (the Democrats). CNN took no position on those words.
By taking “no position” they were not exactly being fair since they didn’t even attempt to correct what – you now appear to be admitting – was a misrepresentation by the Democrats of what DeSantis said.
To be fair to DeSantis, CNN could have made it part of their reporting that DeSantis wasn’t speaking about Gillum when he made the ‘monkey’ reference. They didn’t.
Half truths or truths only half told can be a worse lie than not saying anything at all. You should know that from your Catholic upbringing. Why didn’t CNN just let the Dems speak for themselves? They had to echo the untruth.
Do you really not see how dishonest this is?
D
dvdjs
Guest
Event and Status dropout rates are tracked by NCES. These droupout categories are distinct from transfer out… The status dropout rates are declining and now about 6%.
Loading…
files.eric.ed.gov
https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_coj.asp
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
No, I sincerely refer to your post #341 where you said:
I was responding to your last two sentences where you refer to when people have things just handed to them. That’s usually described as getting things for free. And I’m quite sure you understood you were talking about government benefits in California that are paid for by taxes. So when I used the word “free” I was also talking about government benefits that are ultimately paid for by taxes. We both understand that no schooling is ever free to society as a whole. Somebody has to pay for it. We both understand that free in this sense means the person receiving the benefit does not have to pay for that specific benefit. So can we move on?
If they don’t, it is by choice. When people complain to me about public schools, I tell them go talk to the principal, go to school board meetings. Demand the changes you wish. Go back repeatedly. Recruit others to do the same. Run for school board if you get no response. Go to the media with your demands.
Public schools belong to the local taxpayers, not the educrats in Washington. But if they won’t respond, many states now have public charter schools as an option. Find one or start one. And if that doesn’t work, find a private school or a homeschool association option.
Be willing to do the things necessary to wrestle control of local schools back.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
That would be taking a position because it makes a judgement that the reader should make for themselves. The DeSantis recording was played for anyone to hear, including all necessary context.LeafByNiggle:
Except that CNN did take a position by NOT stating that “the people whose words they were reporting about” we’re actually misrepresenting what DeSantis actually said.HarryStotle:
If there is inaccuracy, it is not inaccuracy by CNN. As I said before, your complaint is not with CNN, but with the people whose words they were reporting about (the Democrats). CNN took no position on those words.
The entire quote by DeSantis was included in the piece, including the part where DeSantis said “…by embracing a socialist agenda” instead of “…by voting for Gillum.” The people can decide for themselves if DeSantis meant voting for Gillum would be embracing a socialist agenda. All the information you need to make up your mind was presented. Nothing important was left out.
Give the Dems an on-camera platform? That would have been even more biased in favor of the Dems if they had done that! I thought CNN was quite restrained in merely reporting what the Dems said without affirming the validity of the Dems position.
H
HarryStotle
Guest
I suppose you are forgetting that those who receive the benefit for free are not necessarily the same cohort of people who pay for the benefit. There are many who pay no taxes but are still educated. This would especially be the case with university students who, as students receiving the free education, wouldn’t be paying for it until later, if at all.HarryStotle:
No, I sincerely refer to your post #341 where you said:
I was responding to your last two sentences where you refer to when people have things just handed to them. That’s usually described as getting things for free. And I’m quite sure you understood you were talking about government benefits in California that are paid for by taxes. So when I used the word “free” I was also talking about government benefits that are ultimately paid for by taxes. We both understand that no schooling is ever free to society as a whole. Somebody has to pay for it. We both understand that free in this sense means the person receiving the benefit does not have to pay for that specific benefit. So can we move on?
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
This is understood and acceptable. There are many childless property owners who support schools through their property taxes, even though they don’t have any kids to send to those schools, while a poor family with 5 kids gets an education for their kids even though they pay very little in property taxes. It has been this way for more than a century. Are you challenging the validity of this system of funding education?
- Status