Florida's GOP gubernatorial nominee says a vote for his black opponent would 'monkey this up'

[dvdjs]

What number of universities would you accept as making the issue of banning conservative speech a serious problem? A third? A half? 90%?

I think that all Universities have policies and procedures through which speakers are vetted. Not all speakers proposed make it through the vetting process.

The idea that “universities have become predominantly leftist and socialist to the point that they ban anyone with a different perspective from speaking on their campuses” is just nonsense.

 

[HarryStotle]

Yes, and I complimented him on addressing the particulars of Medicare. But I was talking about the “democratic socialists” in the news today, and I mistakenly thought Ridgerunner was too. So that is why I invited him to do the same with those plans that I though he was criticizing with generalities.

Don’t you think it would be proper for those, like Gillum, who propose those plans to first work out the details rather than just express the terms of those plans with generalities?

Here is Gillum…

https://www.dailywire.com/news/3538...tm_content=090418-news&utm_campaign=position1

It seems to me that it would be difficult to criticize such plans using specifics when no specifics are being provided.

So inviting @Ridgerunner to “do the same with those plans that I though[t] he was criticizing with generalities,” would be extremely difficult for him to do given that the plans themselves are nothing more than vague generalities.

Or are you asking him to provide (make up) the specifics and then criticize what he has made up so that you can accuse him of critiquing a straw plan? Clever one, Leaf!

 

[Inisfallen]

The idea that “universities have become predominantly leftist and socialist to the point that they ban anyone with a different perspective from speaking on their campuses” is just nonsense.

I know, isn’t it?

I’m here in New York, working at one of the big 10 law firms. The firm’s clients are companies like (only for example – I’m not identifying my firm’s clients here) Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Credit Suisse, Barclays, etc.

And this firm, and each one of those big investment banks, are entirely staffed, at the C-suite level right down to the greenest trader, with graduates of those universities, particularly the Ivy League universities.

And yet I think we can all agree that those firms are hardly hotbeds of socialism.

 

[Ridgerunner]

And yet I think we can all agree that those firms are hardly hotbeds of socialism.

I don’t remember how Much Goldman Sachs paid Hillary Clinton for her “secret speech”, but it was substantial. The big companies anymore are the I.G. Farbens of this country and this time in history. They’ll support whoever they think will give them the most advantage. So far, anyway, the true socialists don’t seem to have the smarts to avoid being used by those kinds of people. The Clintons, of course, knew how to extract the most from them.

Just looked it up. $675,000.00 paid to Clinton by Goldman.

 

[Inisfallen]

I don’t remember how Much Goldman Sachs paid Hillary Clinton for her “secret speech”, but it was substantial.

No doubt.

The big companies anymore are the I.G. Farbens of this country and this time in history. They’ll support whoever they think will give them the most advantage.

No kidding.

So far, anyway, the true socialists don’t seem to have the smarts to avoid being used by those kinds of people.

I’m not even sure what this means. The “true socialists” (assuming there is such a thing on the US political scene) aren’t (I hope) going to end up being used by, say, Goldman Sachs. Although I guess anything is possible – look how Trump spoke about Goldman Sachs before his election, and now he uses GS as a recruiting agency.

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

What number of universities would you accept as making the issue of banning conservative speech a serious problem? A third? A half? 90%?

I think that all Universities have policies and procedures through which speakers are vetted. Not all speakers proposed make it through the vetting process.

The idea that “universities have become predominantly leftist and socialist to the point that they ban anyone with a different perspective from speaking on their campuses” is just nonsense.

Database of disinvited speakers…

Check out the individuals banned, the topics, and the “side” requesting the ban.

For 2018

Campus Deplatforming Database | The Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression

Nine different universities.
7 from the left
1 NA - who would disinvited Nancy DeVos from the right?
1 purportedly from the right on Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

2017

Campus Deplatforming Database | The Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression

At least 25 different universities - guesstimate.
31 from the left
1 NA - Dalai Lama
5 from the right, one of whom was Fr James Martin from a Catholic University

2016

Campus Deplatforming Database | The Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression

35 from the left
3 NA - two on Israeli-Palestinian conflict
5 from the right, one of whom was Jeff Sessions (peculiar)
Many different universities involved.

 

[Inisfallen]

The fact that Ben Shapiro, a practicing Jew, has been banned from speaking at a number of universities over the past few years should, then be understood (at least by Inisfallen) to indicate that not just socialists but Nazis have taken over at least some college campuses, given his/her equating of Nazism with socialism.

Thanks for the mention, but it wasn’t me who equated Naziism with socialism. It was (at first) one of our “conservative” posters, and then others took up the idea. For the record (and obviously, from my posts on the subject), I don’t believe this to be true.

And maybe Shapiro was banned because he’s a troll, not because he’s a conservative. I don’t know for sure, but it’s certainly possible. He’s not quite a Milo-level troll, because Milo lives to create disturbance and disruption, but he’s a bit of a troll, no question about it.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

And maybe Shapiro was banned because he’s a troll, not because he’s a conservative.

I agree. There are any number of conservatives who could speak at college campuses with no trouble at all from the left or anyone else. But those that are interested pushing the narrative that conservatives are not allowed to speak on campus seem to draw the line between liberal and conservative so far to the right that only the most provocative qualify.

 

[Inisfallen]

I agree. There are any number of conservatives who could speak at college campuses with no trouble at all from the left or anyone else. But those that are interested pushing the narrative that conservatives are not allowed to speak on campus seem to draw the line between liberal and conservative so far to the right that only the most provocative qualify.

Yes. With “provocative” being the key word there.

 

[dvdjs]

Database of disinvited speakers…

I am familiar with this database.
The numbers re very small compared to the number of universities and colleges, even though the database includes all incidents of protest, whether it led ot a cancellation or a terminal disproportional. It is a tiny, tiny problem. And typically the problem is administrative misfeasance.

 

[HarryStotle]

I see. So we’ve moved from the number of conservatives being banned as “nonsense…”

…that they ban anyone with a different perspective from speaking on their campuses” is just nonsense.

… to: Well, only the “provocative” ones who should be banned get banned…

LeafByNiggle:

I agree. There are any number of conservatives who could speak at college campuses with no trouble at all from the left or anyone else. But those that are interested pushing the narrative that conservatives are not allowed to speak on campus seem to draw the line between liberal and conservative so far to the right that only the most provocative qualify.

Yes. With “provocative” being the key word there.

Sounds like political double speak to shut down anyone who is more conservative than ya’ll on the left will permit.

Whose trolling who, here?

Now that we understand where you are coming from, we’ll know not to take your posts very seriously.

 

[Inisfallen]

Not what I said. Of course. But you knew that.

Look, if you’re going to criticize my posts, by all means, go for it. That’s kind of the whole point of dialogue and debate. But don’t reframe and rewrite them into something you can knock.

 

[dvdjs]

So we’ve moved from the number of conservatives being banned as “nonsense…”

Nope. The database in fact underscores how nonsencical your statement was.
The numbers aren’t there. The single-sidedness is not there. The ideology is not there. Overall there is essentially no there there. Just nonsense.

 

[HarryStotle]

I am familiar with this database.
The numbers re very small compared to the number of universities and colleges, even though the database includes all incidents of protest, whether it led ot a cancellation or a terminal disproportional. It is a tiny, tiny problem. And typically the problem is administrative misfeasance.

The listing reads like a who’s who of top tier universities, so it isn’t a “tiny, tiny” problem.

I suppose it only becomes a “small” problem when every university in the country suffers from the malady?

Blaming it on administrative misfeasance is interesting since most would likely be the result of students and faculty putting pressure on administrators. On the other hand, the fact that the administration folds like a cheap suit despite exorbitant salaries, tells us that free speech and the search for truth on campus is certainly secure.

Nice to know you leftists on CAF have such a corner on truth that only your opinions count.

 

[HarryStotle]

Nope. The database in fact underscores how nonsencical your statement was.
The numbers aren’t there. The single-sidedness is not there. The ideology is not there. Overall there is essentially no there there. Just nonsense.

Bill?

Is that you?

Just trollin’?

Nonsencical, eh?

 

[Inisfallen]

Nice to know you leftists on CAF have such a corner on truth that only your opinions count.

“you leftists.” That’s funny.

I always thought I was a mildly liberal centrist. I don’t really have any political opinions that are outside the mainstream (except for being pro-life).

But here at CAF, I’m a “leftist.” Just like Che and Rosa Luxemburg, I guess.

 

[HarryStotle]

I always thought I was a mildly liberal centrist. I don’t really have any political opinions that are outside the mainstream (except for being pro-life).

But here at CAF, I’m a “leftist.” Just like Che and Rosa Luxemburg, I guess.

I’m sure that sitting smack in the middle of your own perspective you have convinced yourself that you are centrist, but we can assess that notion a bit more objectively.

My guess is you will deny Prager’s points and still claim to be centrist.

 

[Inisfallen]

My guess is you will deny Prager’s points and still claim to be centrist.

Lord. I watched a bit more than four minutes of that, and that was all I could take.

It’s just a bunch of unsubstantiated and often untrue statements like “liberals believe that…” and “leftists believe that…”

Of course anyone can make any point they want, and win any debate, if they’re allowed to define all the terms.

I don’t think I’ll let Dennis Prager decide if I’m a liberal, or a leftist, or anything else.

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

My guess is you will deny Prager’s points and still claim to be centrist.

Lord. I watched a bit more than four minutes of that, and that was all I could take.

It’s just a bunch of unsubstantiated and often untrue statements like “liberals believe that…” and “leftists belief that…”

Of course anyone can make any point they want, and win any debate, if they’re allowed to defined all the terms.

I don’t think I’ll let Dennis Prager decide if I’m a liberal, or a leftist, or anything else.

As I thought.

On the other hand, you think yourself free to define what liberal, leftist or anything else means.

So, sure, by your definition you can be at the centre of anywhere you imagine yourself to be.

Just out of curiosity, how would you define the words liberal and leftist?

That way we can assess whether or not you say anything meaningful when you claim to be a “mildly liberal centrist.”

Wait for it…

 

[Inisfallen]

On the other hand, you think yourself free to define what liberal, leftist or anything else means.

You have no idea what I think. I don’t think I’m free to write my own dictionary and enforce it, as you say I do.

Just out of curiosity, how would you define the words liberal and leftist ?

That way we can assess whether or not you say anything meaningful when you claim to be a “mildly liberal centrist.”

Wait for it…

No, sorry, don’t feel like playing.