Florida's GOP gubernatorial nominee says a vote for his black opponent would 'monkey this up'

[Inisfallen]

Just out of curiosity, how would you define the words liberal and leftist ?

No, wait, I’ll give you an answer.

I don’t try to define them, at least not here. Those words have lost all meaning these days. When, say, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are referred to as “hard left,” and “socialist,” it’s pointless. When “liberal,” and “progressive” have been turned into pejoratives, there’s no point.

For that matter, when Donald Trump is called a “conservative,” it’s pointless

These days, words have lost all meaning.

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

On the other hand, you think yourself free to define what liberal, leftist or anything else means.

You have no idea what I think. I don’t think I’m free to write my own dictionary and enforce it, as you say I do.

Just out of curiosity, how would you define the words liberal and leftist ?

That way we can assess whether or not you say anything meaningful when you claim to be a “mildly liberal centrist.”

Wait for it…

No, sorry, don’t feel like playing.

As I suspected.

Of course, that way you can pretend anything you want and call it anything you desire.

 

[Inisfallen]

As I suspected.

Of course, that way you can pretend anything you want and call it anything you desire.

See my follow-up post. I actually gave you a serious answer.

And I’m not pretending anything. You’re getting seriously personal here.

 

[dvdjs]

The listing reads like a who’s who of top tier universities, so it isn’t a “tiny, tiny” problem.

If you were genuinely interested, you would look at hte number of external speakers on the handful of campuses and the diversity of the speakers. You might also note that in many cases listed on the site you linked, the response to requests that an invitation be rescinded was “no”. And in the case of speakers whose talks disrupted, there is no discussion of the fate of the protestors. When you further consider the cases from the right, there are very few cases that can even be considered as supporting your wholesale indictment of universities and colleges.

Blaming it on administrative misfeasance …

There are cases in the database of incomplete vetting, of failure to consider security needs in advance of permitting and of administrators unilaterally making a decision that was properly in the hands of students.
Read through the cases on your database the one things that you won’t find is evidence to support your perspective,

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

Just out of curiosity, how would you define the words liberal and leftist ?

No, wait, I’ll give you an answer.

I don’t try to define them, at least not here. Those words have lost all meaning these days. When, say, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are referred to as “hard left,” and “socialist,” it’s pointless. When “liberal,” and “progressive” have been turned into pejoratives, there’s no point.

For that matter, when Donald Trump is called a “conservative,” it’s pointless

These days, words have lost all meaning.

For you, clearly they have.

Not for Prager and not for me.

No need to project your disorientation syndrome on everyone else.

If you really thought “Those words have lost all meaning these days,” you wouldn’t have claimed to be “a mildly liberal centrist,” since those words have no meaning.

Your disorientation is now established, since you have no point of reference – being at the centre of an indeterminate location isn’t exactly ‘centrist’ is it? Confused perhaps, but centrist? I don’t think so. Although it might be comforting that you aren’t on the fringe.

Judging by your unwillingness to play, we can safely assume by Prager’s definitions that you are leftist, despite your protestations.

 

[Inisfallen]

No need to project your disorientation syndrome on everyone else.

Your disorientation is now established, since you have no point of reference

Confused perhaps, but centrist?

Messages posted to this board must be polite and free of personal attacks

 

[HarryStotle]

There are cases in the database of incomplete vetting, of failure to consider security needs in advance of permitting and of administrators unilaterally making a decision that was properly in the hands of students.

If universities were the bastions of free speech that you claim, why would “security needs” even be a factor?

You know why, don’t you?

There have been numerous instances of violence – and always from the left – such that “security needs” have frequently been used as a pretext by administrators for canceling those events.

Anyone who has followed this phenomenon for the past two years would know that you are intentionally understating and minimizing the problem.

 

[Inisfallen]

Judging by your unwillingness to play, we can safely assume by Prager’s definitions that you are leftist, despite your protestations.

OK, educate me. What beliefs do I have that make me a “leftist,” rather than a “liberal”?

 

[dvdjs]

If universities were the bastions of free speech that you claim, why would “security needs” even be a factor?

I made no claim. I just rejected yours. The data make a compelling case against you.

 

[HarryStotle]

Messages posted to this board must be polite and free of personal attacks

I am confused. I am being polite.

It was you who claimed, “Those words have lost all meaning these days.”

You cannot have meant those words have lost their meaning for Prager or myself, since we don’t claim they have “lost all meaning,” and Prager went to great lengths to define them carefully and meaningfully.

You made the claim, so I assumed you implicitly meant they lost all meaning FOR YOU these days.

That is the reason I couldn’t understand why you would claim to be a “mildly liberal centrist” when you, by your own admission, have no idea what those words mean.

Call me perplexed.

 

[HarryStotle]

OK, educate me. What beliefs do I have that make me a “leftist,” rather than a “liberal”?

You refused to define the words. You refused to accept Prager’s definitions. You claimed the words have no meaning for you.

And now you want me to tell you what you believe?

Uh, no thanks. I have a difficult enough time trying to figure out what I believe.

Besides, Prager defined the terms ‘leftist’ and ‘liberal’ quite carefully. Perhaps you could let us know where you stand according to his definitions of those words, even if you don’t accept them as definitive.

 

[Inisfallen]

I am being polite.

Not really. Calling me “confused,” saying I have “disorientation syndrome,” that’s polite? I don’t think so.

It was you who claimed, “Those words have lost all meaning these days.”

It’s certainly true that some words are getting a little slippery these days. When Hillary Clinton is “hard left,” when Barack Obama is a “socialist,” when Donald Trump is a “conservative,” it’s hard to figure out what meaning people are assigning to those words.

You refused to define the words. You refused to accept Prager’s definitions. You claimed the words have no meaning for you.

No, I didn’t. I said they’ve lost all meaning here at CAF. Not the same thing at all.

And now you want me to tell you what you believe?

No, of course not. Again, I didn’t say anything of the kind – you’re rewording and reframing what I said. I wanted you to tell me what you believe. That was quite clear in my post.

Besides, Prager defined the terms ‘leftist’ and ‘liberal’ quite carefully. Perhaps you could let us know where you stand according to his definitions of those words, even if you don’t accept them as definitive.

Oh, for Pete’s sake, you got me to watch a Dennis Prager video. Rest on your laurels. That’s quite an accomplishment.

 

[JonNC]

Thanks for the mention, but it wasn’t me who equated Naziism with socialism. It was (at first) one of our “conservative” posters, and then others took up the idea.

I asked in an earlier post who it was. Did you respond?

This has been answered by others, but Nazism is not equal to socialism. That’s like saying a car is equal to tires. Nazism is a fascist form of government uses socialism as its economic model

 

[LeafByNiggle]

My guess is you will deny Prager’s points and still claim to be centrist.

Most people do deny Prager’s points.

As I thought.

On the other hand, you think yourself free to define what liberal, leftist or anything else means.

So, sure, by your definition you can be at the centre of anywhere you imagine yourself to be.

If you want to see a good example of self-definition, look at today’s alt-right claiming the mantle of “conservative.”

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

My guess is you will deny Prager’s points and still claim to be centrist.

Most people do deny Prager’s points.

As I thought.

On the other hand, you think yourself free to define what liberal, leftist or anything else means.

So, sure, by your definition you can be at the centre of anywhere you imagine yourself to be.

If you want to see a good example of self-definition, look at today’s alt-right claiming the mantle of “conservative.”

Why don’t you define what conservative, centrist, liberal, and left mean, then?

Very easy to criticize what others propose as definitions, or when they “self-define” as something, when you can safely distance yourself from all definitions.

Defining oneself as ‘centrist’ is only possible because the left has veered so far left that a traditional leftist can now say they are ‘centrist’ according to the current political climate. In reality, they aren’t centrist, more like not so extreme left.

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

My guess is you will deny Prager’s points and still claim to be centrist.

Most people do deny Prager’s points.

‘Most’ in your circle of woods, and that only because the left has gone so extreme.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Why don’t you define what conservative, centrist, liberal, and left mean, then?

Very easy to criticize what others propose as definitions, or when they “self-define” as something, when you can safely distance yourself from all definitions.

I am not going to compose my own wording of the definition of “conservative” because then I would be just as guilty of making up things. Instead I will simply refer to the dictionary:

Conservative:

holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation, typically in relation to politics or religion.

Does that sound like Steve Bannon? Milo Yiannopoulos? Ben Shapiro?

Compare these people with conservatives of the past: William F. Buckley Jr. or Ronald Reagan.

Not everyone who claims the title “conservative” is a conservative.

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

If universities were the bastions of free speech that you claim, why would “security needs” even be a factor?

I made no claim. I just rejected yours. The data make a compelling case against you.

Yeah, no, the data do no such thing.

I suppose the 62 interruptions by Dems at the Kavanaugh hearing are just a “tiny, tiny” problem in your estimation? Why the attempts to silence rather than ask questions and seek answers? Silencing opposition has become standard OP for leftist Dems.

 

[Inisfallen]

I asked in an earlier post who it was. Did you respond?

No. That poster can speak for himself, if he wants to. It’s not my place to drag someone else into the debate.

This has been answered by others, but Nazism is not equal to socialism. That’s like saying a car is equal to tires. Nazism is a fascist form of government uses socialism as its economic model

Understood. I disagree, strongly, but I hear what you’re saying, and at this point I don’t think there’s any point in re-hashing the debate.

 

[Inisfallen]

Very easy to criticize what others propose as definitions

I can’t criticize your definitions, because you won’t provide them. Fair enough, there’s no rule that says you (or I) have to, but I haven’t criticized your definitions. I don’t know what they are.

Defining oneself as ‘centrist’ is only possible because the left has veered so far left that a traditional leftist can now say they are ‘centrist’ according to the current political climate.

Veered left? Bill Clinton and Barack Obama governed (and Hillary Clinton would have governed) from a position on the political spectrum that was pretty much the same as that occupied by Richard Nixon. And yet they’re called “socialists” and “hard left” (Obama and Hillary Clinton especially).

Veered left? I don’t think so.