FOR ALL THE ONCE SAVE ALWAYS SAVE PEOPLE again

[Howie01]

kalt:

God gave people free will. With that free will, they are always free to accept or reject God.

I don’t know whether or not it’s intentional, but your statement, as worded, sounds Pelagian.

kalt:

It’s not my original question, but it’s the point that comes up when trying to sort through the OSAS position. It seems that OSAS theory denies a person’s free will.

How does it seem to deny that?

kalt:

Christ is the savior. And people are free, always, to accpet or reject the offer. There’s nothing in the Bible that says that once someone accepts Jesus he loses his ability to reject the offer. In fact, the Bible says the opposite.

Where?

kalt:

So, I’m still left wondering how anyone can know they are saved.

By God’s revelation to one, and by that one believing with a like faith as Peter; namely, that Christ is the Son of the living the God (Mt 16:16; 2 Pet 1:1; Jn 20:31 cf 1 Jn 5:13).

 

[Fisher]

How To Know Your Saved

If you are God’s Child, then He has promised to tell you that you are saved… “The Spirit itself BEARETH WITNESS with our spirit, that we are the children of God” (Romans 8:16). When you become a believer, the Godhead moved into your heart—i.e., God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit came into your soul to live forever. The Godhead lives within our body in the Person of God, the Holy Spirit. It is **God’s very Spirit that testifies to our own spirit that we are a Child of God. **

How does God’s Holy Spirit bear witness to our spirit that we are saved? Listen to the precious Words of Jesus… “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another COMFORTER, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you” (John 14:16,17).

Either you have the Holy Spirit within or you don’t!!! Either God lives in your heart or He doesn’t. Either your saved or you are not.

“And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and THIS LIFE IS IN HIS SON. HE THAT HATH THE SON HATH LIFE; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life” (1st John 5:11,12). Eternal life comes from God alone.

“These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may** KNOW **that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.”

—1st John 5:13

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. **Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. **

1John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

1John 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

Eternal life comes from God alone. This “eternal life” is found in Jesus Christ alone.self-righteous works, good deeds, baptism or anything else—only Jesus!!! Remember, salvation is NOT found in a religion, it is found in a person—Jesus Christ!!!

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

“NOT BY WORKS of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost” (Titus 3:5). This Bible verse makes it plain and simple that good works will not save anyone. Listen to the message of Ephesians 2:8-9, “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.” How many Scriptures does God need to put in front of our face before we get the idea—salvation is not by merit. “Knowing that a man is NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and NOT BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW: for BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW SHALL NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED” (Galatians 2:16). The road to Hell is paved with good intentions!!! The plain teaching of the Inspired Word of God is that salvation is NOT BY WORKS. You just read the Scriptures for yourself.

“I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, THEN CHRIST IS DEAD IN VAIN” (Galatians 2:21).

 

[Peter_J]

So what ? Maybe I don’t care for your remarks. Far more to the point, maybe a lot of Protestants don’t. The cure is in your own hands - stop insulting what a lot of Protestants value: you lot are for ever whining when anyone says even a word against your own poxy religion.​

And vice versa. I.e. it’s equally annoying when Protestants insult what Catholics value, yet whine whenever anyone says a word against their own religion.

P.S. I say it’s annoying, but in the interest of full disclosure I’ll add that I personally don’t have too much occasion to be annoyed by it, simply because I don’t spend a lot of time on Protestant discussion forums. But that’s beside the point.

 

[ICA04]

This question is for all that belive in the teaching of OSAS, If you are save then right after you are save why not just kill your self and go right to heaven WHY WAIT We all know we are all trying to get there so why wait,I my self like to be in heaven now. What do you think

I think you need Jesus my friend. You shall not commit murder.

 

[Bill_Pick]

I think you need Jesus my friend. You shall not commit murder.

Thank you my friend and I have Jesus .The word always means for all tines or forever,so it may be you that needs Jesus. God bless and have a good day

 

[kalt]

I don’t know whether or not it’s intentional, but your statement, as worded, sounds Pelagian.

How does it seem to deny that?

Where?

By God’s revelation to one, and by that one believing with a like faith as Peter; namely, that Christ is the Son of the living the God (Mt 16:16; 2 Pet 1:1; Jn 20:31 cf 1 Jn 5:13).

It seems to deny free will when you say that once someone is “born again” he can never walk away from his religion or commit a serious sin and die unrepentant. That denies free will.

The Bible talks about working out your salvation and also about persevering. If you don’t have the free will to walk away from your religion or to die unrepentant afer commiting a serious sin, what would you need to persevere through? If your fate is settled, why would you need to work out your salvation to the end? Why would anyone say (in the Bible) that he was concerned about his own salvation after preaching to others?

I understand that born again Christians would naturally not want to commit sins or walk away from their religion, but that doesn’t answer the question about whether they have the free will to do that. And it doesn’t answer the question about persevering, working out their salvation, or beng concerned about your own salvation after preaching to others. Certainly the man in the Bible who was concerned about his own salvation had accepted Jesus as his savior and had been Baptized.

This is what is still unanswered about OSAS.

Basically, the answer is, usually, that anyone who died unrepentant was never saved. That brings us back to the question of how anyone can be certain. Yet so many say you can be assured of your salvation.

Otherwise, the answer is that no one who is saved will die unrepentant or will walk away from their religion. Of course we see people who are born again Christians deny Christ and become atheists, Muslims, or follow eastern philosophies. Still, you say, they will not die unrepentant or die while away from the Church. That seems to deny that those people have the God-given free will to accept or refuse His offer of salvation.

I’ll ask again. Does being “born again” wipe away someone’s free will?

 

[kalt]

How To Know Your Saved

If you are God’s Child, then He has promised to tell you that you are saved… “The Spirit itself BEARETH WITNESS with our spirit, that we are the children of God” (Romans 8:16). When you become a believer, the Godhead moved into your heart—i.e., God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit came into your soul to live forever. The Godhead lives within our body in the Person of God, the Holy Spirit. It is **God’s very Spirit that testifies to our own spirit that we are a Child of God. **

How does God’s Holy Spirit bear witness to our spirit that we are saved? Listen to the precious Words of Jesus… “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another COMFORTER, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you” (John 14:16,17).

Either you have the Holy Spirit within or you don’t!!! Either God lives in your heart or He doesn’t. Either your saved or you are not.

“And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and THIS LIFE IS IN HIS SON. HE THAT HATH THE SON HATH LIFE; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life” (1st John 5:11,12). Eternal life comes from God alone.

“These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may** KNOW **that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.”

—1st John 5:13

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. **Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. **

1John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

1John 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

Eternal life comes from God alone. This “eternal life” is found in Jesus Christ alone.self-righteous works, good deeds, baptism or anything else—only Jesus!!! Remember, salvation is NOT found in a religion, it is found in a person—Jesus Christ!!!

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

“NOT BY WORKS of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost” (Titus 3:5). This Bible verse makes it plain and simple that good works will not save anyone. Listen to the message of Ephesians 2:8-9, “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.” How many Scriptures does God need to put in front of our face before we get the idea—salvation is not by merit. “Knowing that a man is NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and NOT BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW: for BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW SHALL NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED” (Galatians 2:16). The road to Hell is paved with good intentions!!! The plain teaching of the Inspired Word of God is that salvation is NOT BY WORKS. You just read the Scriptures for yourself.

“I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, THEN CHRIST IS DEAD IN VAIN” (Galatians 2:21).

Salvation is a gift from God that all people are free to accept or refuse.

The question is whether the OSAS theory accepts or denies that a person has free will after being “born again”.

“1John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”

How does a OSAS person who commits a serious sin like murder still say that he is assured his salvation? How do others agree with him.

If he were mistaken about knowing God, how can anyone be sure that he “knows” God.

If the murdered is assured of his salvation, though he broke one of the commandments, how is that so? Does he have the free will to break commandments and die unrepentant? Do unrepentant murderers, so long as they are “born again”, go to Heaven?

I really wish someone would answer these questions honestly.

Do unrepentant, born again murderers go to Heaven?

Does a OSAS person lose the free will to accept or deny God’s offer of salvation once he becomes born again?

If he doesn’t lose his free will, how is he assured that he won’t die unrepentant or walk away from his religion?

If others are mistaken about their OSAS status, how can anyone be sure of his own?

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I’ll ask once again. (And I’m ignoring your rude, anti-Catholic remarks )

We know that people who believe in OSAS don’t believe that they have a license to sin, anymore than Catholics believe that they have a license to sin becuase they can be forgiven in sacramental Confession.

So that argument is put to rest.

The question most people have about OSAS is, what happens when a OSAS person commits a very serious sin–like murder–or walks away from Christ?

If the person is OS and AS, does a OSAS person who dies an unrepentant murderer go to Heaven? Does a OSAS person who dies after walking away from his faith go to Heaven?

It’s a very simple, straight forward question, but no one will answer it.

It’s been answered often - do search on OSAS for crying out loud :banghead: ​

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Precisely… One possible answer is that they were never saved to begin with.

And that is a possibility for which Reformed theology makes ample provision. Apparently some people can’t see this. IMO, people who ask questions to trip others upare not worth bothering with.​

If such people were in good faith, & if they were as well-acquainted with the NT as they are said to be (& it’s quite obvious they are neither one nor the other), they would know perfectly well that belief in OSAS is incomplete with the vicious activities they so much want to be its fruits.

When someone is saved they will want to grow more and more Christlike every day. They may stumble along the way but there path is towards God not away.

OSAS is NEVER license. It is only so in the minds of those who are critics. From the point of view of an OSAS person, scripture supports OSAS as well as the fact that the person will be moving towards becoming more and more like his/her savior. Some grow more than others (some never get past the point of being immature Christians).

Just because someone responds to the general Gospel call does NOT mean that they have truly become saved. The effectual call does not fail. Remember scripture, “many are called but few are chosen”.

All very well put ​

 

[Bill_Pick]

It’s been answered often - do search on OSAS for crying out loud :banghead: ​

Who is being rude to this poor little guy ? Once saved always (always for all times-forever0 This is not me its from the dictionary so OSAS is saying it is for all times or forever so it is saying if you sin its OK you are still going to heaven,thats what a lot of Baptist are saying

 

[Howie01]

kalt:

It seems to deny free will when you say that once someone is “born again” he can never walk away from his religion or commit a serious sin and die unrepentant. That denies free will.

The Bible talks about working out your salvation and also about persevering. If you don’t have the free will to walk away from your religion or to die unrepentant afer commiting a serious sin, what would you need to persevere through? If your fate is settled, why would you need to work out your salvation to the end? Why would anyone say (in the Bible) that he was concerned about his own salvation after preaching to others?

I understand that born again Christians would naturally not want to commit sins or walk away from their religion, but that doesn’t answer the question about whether they have the free will to do that. And it doesn’t answer the question about persevering, working out their salvation, or beng concerned about your own salvation after preaching to others. Certainly the man in the Bible who was concerned about his own salvation had accepted Jesus as his savior and had been Baptized.

This is what is still unanswered about OSAS.

Basically, the answer is, usually, that anyone who died unrepentant was never saved. That brings us back to the question of how anyone can be certain. Yet so many say you can be assured of your salvation.

Otherwise, the answer is that no one who is saved will die unrepentant or will walk away from their religion. Of course we see people who are born again Christians deny Christ and become atheists, Muslims, or follow eastern philosophies. Still, you say, they will not die unrepentant or die while away from the Church. That seems to deny that those people have the God-given free will to accept or refuse His offer of salvation.

My friend, I’ve answered all of your questions, at least once.

It’s time you do some work on your own. I would recommend reading a book on the subject, and I’m providing a link to a very good and concise title for you: The Five Points of Calvinism, Defined, Defended, and Documented

kalt:

I’ll ask again. Does being “born again” wipe away someone’s free will?

You can answer that question for yourself by answering these two, simple questions:#1. Are you “born again?”

#2. If so, has your free-will been “wiped away?”

 

[kalt]

My friend, I’ve answered all of your questions, at least once.

It’s time you do some work on your own. I would recommend reading a book on the subject, and I’m providing a link to a very good and concise title for you: The Five Points of Calvinism, Defined, Defended, and Documented

You can answer that question for yourself by answering these two, simple questions:#1. Are you “born again?”

#2. If so, has your free-will been “wiped away?”

Define “born again”. (Your tactic thrown back on you.)

I was Baptised as an infant. I was confirmed in my teens. I reaffirm my Baptism every Easter. If that’s being “born again”, then I am.

Of course that doesn’t mean that I think I am assured of my salvation. I am aware that I have free will and that, though I’ve been Baptized, I have to persevere to the end.

And once again you’ve avoided answering the very simple questions people ask about OSAS.

For the sake of us who don’t get it, just answer one question.

Does an unrepentant OSAS murderer (one who is killed in the act) go to Heaven?

 

[kalt]

It’s been answered often - do search on OSAS for crying out loud :banghead: ​

The following question has never been answered.

Does a unrepentant OSAS murderer (one who dies in the act) go to Heaven?

Someone else stated that a OSAS person will want to do good. That makes sense. Most people, OSAS or not, want to do good. He (she?) went on to say that they may “stumble” along the way, but that the person is always moving toward God not away.

I take issue with that. “Stumbling”, otherwise known as sin, is moving away from God. A OSAS person, like all Christians who sin, is most definitely not always moving toward God.

And that’s the question we have. How can someone who moves away from God in a serious way (commits a serious sin like murder) and dies without being repentant go to Heaven?

Why can’t anyone answer that question?

 

[Howie01]

kalt:

Define “born again”. (Your tactic thrown back on you.)

I was Baptised as an infant. I was confirmed in my teens. I reaffirm my Baptism every Easter. If that’s being “born again”, then I am.

Then ask yourself this question:Has your free-will been "wiped away?"

kalt:

Of course that doesn’t mean that I think I am assured of my salvation.

Of course not! As a Catholic, that would be presumptuous of you.

kalt:

I am aware that I have free will and that, though I’ve been Baptized, I have to persevere to the end.

Mt 10:22.

kalt:

And once again you’ve avoided answering the very simple questions people ask about OSAS.

For the sake of us who don’t get it, just answer one question.

Does an unrepentant OSAS murderer (one who is killed in the act) go to Heaven?

My friend, I’ve answered that question for you a number of times.

Read the subject, if you’re really interested.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Then ask yourself this question:Has your free-will been "wiped away?"

Of course not! As a Catholic, that would be presumptuous of you.

Mt 10:22.

My friend, I’ve answered that question for you a number of times.

Read the subject, if you’re really interested.

I have read all the answer on this page and I do not see the answer yet and I never will see the answer because it just another false teaching

 

[Howie01]

I have read all the answer on this page and I do not see the answer yet and I never will see the answer because it just another false teaching

I said the same thing to you earlier, as I say to Kalt—read a book.

However, if you desire only to lay around wailing and bemoaning such a doctrine, without putting in effort on your own to learn about, then carry on in your present ignorance of the subject.

Both of you have the free-will to do so.

 

[Bill_Pick]

I said the same thing to you earlier, as I say to Kalt—read a book.

However, if you desire only to lay around wailing and bemoaning such a doctrine, without putting in effort on your own to learn about, then carry on in your present ignorance of the subject.

Both of you have the free-will to do so.

Why is some one saying in your oresent ignorance when the teaching is against what the Bible is saying and OSAS is a false teaching. It was not a teaching of any of the Apostles and the teaching has only been around for about 500 years

 

[ICA04]

Thank you my friend and I have Jesus .The word always means for all tines or forever,so it may be you that needs Jesus. God bless and have a good day

I have Jesus and no desire to kill myself. Are you not saved maybe?

 

[Howie01]

Why is some one saying in your oresent ignorance when the teaching is against what the Bible is saying and OSAS is a false teaching. It was not a teaching of any of the Apostles and the teaching has only been around for about 500 years

My friend, as I stated in an earlier post on this thread, your church teaches predestination to eternal blessedness of only some men. And, you’re required to believe that de fide.

Those predestined in that way cannot lose their salvation.

You call the Protestant doctrine stating that God has predestined only some to eternal blessedness OSAS.

I’m curious, what do you call the Catholic doctrine stating the same thing?

 

[Peter_J]

My friend, as I stated in an earlier post on this thread, your church teaches predestination to eternal blessedness of only some men. And, you’re required to believe that de fide.

Could you quote the specific document that you’re getting that from?