For CAF members in response to the post:

[Marilena]

These people are just bitter that they cannot understand the TRUTH so they so to the simpler one. They deny the Trinity, the fact that Mary was always a virgin, and our use of saints as statues. They believe we pray to the saints and worship them. I think these people are misguided and because they didn’t understand the TRUTH they had to go somewhere where they could find a logical reason since the Trinity was hard to understand. How hard is it? The bible says in John 1:1 "and the Word was God (Jesus is the Word), and on John 20:28 “my Lord and my God” (Thomas speaking to Jesus).

I wish there was something I could do, no matter how many times I explain it to my husband, and he seems to understand my points, he just doesn’t want to accept it. Last night we had an argument about me not ever wanting to convert to a JW because I don’t buy anything they preach. THey do seem convincing at times, but they try to confuse u using the tactics they learn during their preaching reunion every wk.

My husband started arguing the fact that I have been taught the truth and I’m denying it (uhh… I’m still Catholic so how am I denying the TRUTH??) I told him the same and then he brought up the Trinity… so since he didn’t understand it, I explained it to him the way utunumsint explains it in a thread named about the Trinity: forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1652176&postcount=4

He seemed to grasp the idea, but then he brought up how we Catholics “worship and pray to” the statues of saints. I said only ignorant Catholics think they are praying to them and worship them. I told him that we don’t pray to them, we ask them to pray for us to God, but he went on and on until he went his way and I went my way…

How can we fight back? They are told to talk calmy to us and after we give them our opinion, that they should use their bible to “teach” us about the truth.

But again, their aim really is Catholics. They think we are just some alienated religion, statue worshipers. They preach to other religions as well, but they always attack the CC in their books and magazines. I have them all at home because of my husband. I have their school books, they study books, their Jehovah’s Organization book, their reasoning book. They all contain something that aims their attacks directly to us, ie, the Trinity, priest celibacy, Mary the Virgin, Halloween, Christmas, Easter, the Easter bunny… see my ponit???

Oh, and get this, a full time female preacher tried to start a study session w/me telling me that all theil literature, before is goes to print, is sent to the Vatican so the Pope will review it and see if their information is correct, and if the Pope says no, that they don’t publish it. They try to get to you w/lies. They’ll do anything to catch your attention!!!

Be careful and inform yourself. If you invite them into your home make sure your Catholic grounds are strong, beacuse they will confuse you if you are not a strong Catholic!!

God bless all!!

you need to talk to Jeff Schwehm. Iam going to ask him to reply to your post here. go to Jeff’s site and visit there, there are lot of good people there that have answers for you. The only thing I can tell you is that arguing does not help the situation. Don’t give in either and be swayed by them. stand your ground but do it charitably.

remember the Scripture, they can be won over without a word?
silence is sometimes the best answer. bu this i do not mean not saying anything. i mean let him see how you live your faith by not arguing with him about religion. Let him see how Catholic’s live.

We can sow a seed by this Scripture. When he has questions, answer them to the best of your ability, and when you cannot answer him, tell him you will talk about it another time, then in that time, research what he asked or brought up. you can also
get Jason Evert’s book “Answering Jehovah’s Witnesses”.

That book is invaluable, especially for someone in your situation. Go to the Catholic answers library and click on non Catholic groups and go to where you see the WTB&TS and print it off.

There is also a whole list there as to what we believe. Including the Mary and the saints. Jeff will give you some tips and do visit his site. I’ll send him a pm right away for you. Here is Jeff’s website: www.catholicxjw.com

God bless you!

Marilena

 

[jschwehm]

Oh, and get this, a full time female preacher tried to start a study session w/me telling me that all theil literature, before is goes to print, is sent to the Vatican so the Pope will review it and see if their information is correct, and if the Pope says no, that they don’t publish it.

Wow! What a lie!!! The tragic thing is that this lady probably believes it to be true because someone at her Kingdom Hall told her this.

By the way, did you get my email? We can help.

Jeff Schwehm
www.catholicxjw.com

 

[yessisan]

Wow! What a lie!!! The tragic thing is that this lady probably believes it to be true because someone at her Kingdom Hall told her this.

By the way, did you get my email? We can help.

Jeff Schwehm
www.catholicxjw.com

Yes I did thanks… I’ll email you when I have time to review which podcasts I’d like, plus I have a lot of literature that defends our beliefs and ones that show how to respond to others when they criticize us. Also, my extended family is very devout so I also have help there.

Thanks Jeff

 

[yessisan]

you need to talk to Jeff Schwehm. Iam going to ask him to reply to your post here. go to Jeff’s site and visit there, there are lot of good people there that have answers for you. The only thing I can tell you is that arguing does not help the situation. Don’t give in either and be swayed by them. stand your ground but do it charitably.

remember the Scripture, they can be won over without a word?
silence is sometimes the best answer. bu this i do not mean not saying anything. i mean let him see how you live your faith by not arguing with him about religion. Let him see how Catholic’s live.

We can sow a seed by this Scripture. When he has questions, answer them to the best of your ability, and when you cannot answer him, tell him you will talk about it another time, then in that time, research what he asked or brought up. you can also
get Jason Evert’s book “Answering Jehovah’s Witnesses”.

That book is invaluable, especially for someone in your situation. Go to the Catholic answers library and click on non Catholic groups and go to where you see the WTB&TS and print it off.

There is also a whole list there as to what we believe. Including the Mary and the saints. Jeff will give you some tips and do visit his site. I’ll send him a pm right away for you. Here is Jeff’s website: www.catholicxjw.com

God bless you!

Marilena

Hi Marilena,

I have printed all of that. I actually have a binder w/ printouts from catholic.com and other places like catholic.net and catholic.org

I also have literature I bought and I have an uncle who is very devout who has actually talked JWs back into Catholicism… I thank you for your concern and your willingness to help…

God bless

 

[jschwehm]

My husband started arguing the fact that I have been taught the truth and I’m denying it (uhh… I’m still Catholic so how am I denying the TRUTH??) I told him the same and then he brought up the Trinity… so since he didn’t understand it, I explained it to him the way utunumsint explains it …He seemed to grasp the idea, but then he brought up how we Catholics “worship and pray to” the statues of saints. I said only ignorant Catholics think they are praying to them and worship them. I told him that we don’t pray to them, we ask them to pray for us to God, but he went on and on until he went his way and I went my way…

I have this experience with a gentleman who was Catholic, then evangelical and is now flirting with the JWs. His girlfriend who is a very devout Catholic has been going round and round with him for the past few months. Periodically they call me to get my two cents.

I have noticed that when I get him to realize that the Catholic point of view is correct on some other matter, that he will immediately go into Catholic bashing mode. It is almost like a lever has been switched on and this man has to keep convincing himself based on his own inner prejudice that the Catholics just have to be wrong. To convince himself of this he has to change the subject and just start bashing. I am pretty sure this is such a habit for him that it happens without him consciously thinking about it.

I would not be surprised if your husband is doing this also. What needs to happen to help him is for you to be patient with him and then you and all of us need to fast and pray that he can over come this. In a certain sense, the fact that this happens might be a good sign. In that most of us converts to the Catholic Church had to overcome something like this prior to coming home.

Jeff S.
www.catholicxjw.com

 

[yessisan]

I have noticed that when I get him to realize that the Catholic point of view is correct on some other matter, that he will immediately go into Catholic bashing mode. It is almost like a lever has been switched on and this man has to keep convincing himself based on his own inner prejudice that the Catholics just have to be wrong. To convince himself of this he has to change the subject and just start bashing. I am pretty sure this is such a habit for him that it happens without him consciously thinking about it.

I would not be surprised if your husband is doing this also.

That’s what I think is happening with him… I guess it’s hard to accept the fact that they are wrong and try to attack us making “smart” remarks to try and make us feel as if we are wrong or don’t know what we are talking about.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

It seems I recall that change happend to coincide with a Governing Body members’ daughter and her illness. Yet, my memory is scetchy on that.
I seem to vaugely recall that it was the spark that caused that sudden flip flop in policy and they really offered no biblical reason for the about face.

It was one of those “light is getting brighter” things. Now, in this case I agree the light got brighter. But its how it happened that I sorta question

They seem to over look the fact that Jesus is the light. If they were really following Him, thier path would be lit for them. The light getting brighter wouldn’t be an issue.

 

[Damascus]

They seem to over look the fact that Jesus is the light. If they were really following Him, thier path would be lit for them. The light getting brighter wouldn’t be an issue.

You are so right. Chris and everyone else, did you note jeffs great advice to FAST and pray about this?

I have asked JW’s why they dont fast. Now, they will say its up to your conscience. When I press the issue, they admit it is biblical.
Now, that being said, any former Jw’s ever recall fasting?

I know I have brought it up before, but lets look at it this way, would a religion that claims to be teaching the truth from the bible somehow shy away from teaching the flock to fast in practice, not just smile and say - its biblical all right. How about putting it into practice? Now the its up to your consience thing just does not fly. Here is why: if they are not told to do it outright- they dont do it. They dont have to worry about fasting before recieving holy communion because they just dont do that as we know. But if you think you are one of the 144,000 and you go to the once a year memorial service where everyone else denies the symbol of jesus do you fast first?
Ha. Bet it never occured to the 244,000 or more that thought they were part of the 144,000.

This tract is supposed to make people see the “true” religion and detect a false one. They do it not by telling us about the Christian biblical things They practice, but by tearing us to shreads.

The Our Father. Never said. Its up to your conscience. Is it really?
Jesus tells us how to pray the Our Father prayer! THey say well, he was only giving an example and repetitive prayer is wrong.

Why did Jesus make it so clear? Why is it in the Scriptures if he did not want the words to be said?

This tract is not just insulting to Catholics- its lacking in any of Jesus’ teachings he gave us!

He did not teach us to spread his word this way. He wants us to be humble.
Where is the humility in bashing us?

 

[Chris_LaRock]

You are so right. Chris and everyone else, did you note jeffs great advice to FAST and pray about this?

I have asked JW’s why they dont fast. Now, they will say its up to your conscience. When I press the issue, they admit it is biblical.
Now, that being said, any former Jw’s ever recall fasting?

I know I have brought it up before, but lets look at it this way, would a religion that claims to be teaching the truth from the bible somehow shy away from teaching the flock to fast in practice, not just smile and say - its biblical all right. How about putting it into practice? Now the its up to your consience thing just does not fly. Here is why: if they are not told to do it outright- they dont do it. They dont have to worry about fasting before recieving holy communion because they just dont do that as we know. But if you think you are one of the 144,000 and you go to the once a year memorial service where everyone else denies the symbol of jesus do you fast first?
Ha. Bet it never occured to the 244,000 or more that thought they were part of the 144,000.

This tract is supposed to make people see the “true” religion and detect a false one. They do it not by telling us about the Christian biblical things They practice, but by tearing us to shreads.

The Our Father. Never said. Its up to your conscience. Is it really?
Jesus tells us how to pray the Our Father prayer! THey say well, he was only giving an example and repetitive prayer is wrong.

Why did Jesus make it so clear? Why is it in the Scriptures if he did not want the words to be said?

This tract is not just insulting to Catholics- its lacking in any of Jesus’ teachings he gave us!

He did not teach us to spread his word this way. He wants us to be humble.
Where is the humility in bashing us?

I’ve had JWs I’ve talked to go into anti-Catholic rants when I asked a question about thier faith that they could not answer. I usually have to remind them I’m not Catholic, and could care less what axe they have to grind against Catholics.

It’s one thing to voice disagreement with Catholicism in a loving way. I can respect that. However, when I hear anyone attack Catholics in such an unloving way - I tend to gain more respect for Catholics as a result. The anti-Catholic people are the best witnesses in favor of Catholicism!

 

[Marilena]

QUOTE: Damascus:

“any former Jw’s ever recall fasting?”

nope… news to me.

 

[Damascus]

I want to sell t-shirts that say:

I spoke to the Jw’s about their tract !
(front side)
And all I got was a bashing!
*and I had to pay for the lousy t shirt!
(back side)

 

[Marilena]

my experience when i was a jw and defending Catholicism was that the jw’s i knew ( in-laws ) would practically snarl at me when i defended the faith politely to them. i never argued by yelling. only by politely defending the Church.

i have had some really trying times when i was a jw. whew… the point here is that they don’t mind doing finger pointing and knocking down other people’s belief systems, but when you ask them about the flip flops in doctrines they have made, they automatically accuse you of persecuting them, even if you are just asking a polite question about the errors they’ve made.

i think alot of jw’s are very good people. but there are also ones in every faith on the planet that are bad apples. regarding the flip flops, not alot of young jw’s know about the errors. we can charitably point them out to them.

i was not as heavily indoctrinated as some of them are, the ones that i knew that are really indoctrinated are the ones who need help the most. they don’t seem to understand why we are really concerned for their spirituality. when trying to explain it to them, some will listen and some wont. its the ones who wont listen that one ought to be very concerned for.

i’d like to see the society be more open, and let their members have freedom of speech and let their members decide if it is the truth, andlet their members research on their own without telling them that if they look at someones site, that they are damned for all eternity. i don’t like that i really don’t. no one can decide who is damned, and who is not. only God can decide that, and not us.

what right does the governing body have to instill such terrible fear into ones heart and mind and soul? it sounds to me like emotional blackmail to tell someone that “hey man, your damned for all eternity because you did this or said that, and if the society says your damned so your damned!”

do they not know that they have no right to state who lives and who dies? where do they get the authority to state for 100% certain that jane or john doe is damned for all eternity? it is blackmail! do this or else!

the tract made me feel sorry for them. why? because it is the same old rhetoric, and to me, it is like this tract is old news that has been re hashed thousands of times, and makes one wonder if some jw’s are just sick and tired of listening to the same old rhetoric time and time again? it is like they are to me, lost sheep.

the Master separates the sheep from the goats. one day, there will be freedom for all jw’s, all they have to do is accept the light that is Jesus Christ, and rid themselves of the falsehoods. its not easy, therefore we must be there for them.

if your of a mind, don’t close your door on the next jw that you see coming to your house. all it takes is a seed from the Master to plant and to take root and bear good fruit. you could be chosen as the one who plants the seed, cultivate it and watch it grow.

 

[yessisan]

the point here is that they don’t mind doing finger pointing and knocking down other people’s belief systems, but when you ask them about the flip flops in doctrines they have made, they automatically accuse you of persecuting them, even if you are just asking a polite question about the errors they’ve made.

that always happens to me when talking to my husband

i think alot of jw’s are very good people. but there are also ones in every faith on the planet that are bad apples. regarding the flip flops, not alot of young jw’s know about the errors. we can charitably point them out to them.

no doubt they’re good people, they’ve been misguided, that’s all

i was not as heavily indoctrinated as some of them are, the ones that i knew that are really indoctrinated are the ones who need help the most. they don’t seem to understand why we are really concerned for their spirituality. when trying to explain it to them, some will listen and some wont. its the ones who wont listen that one ought to be very concerned for.

sometimes I’d like to think my husband listens, maybe he does, but he’s too proud to be a JW, it’s sickening!

i’d like to see the society be more open, and let their members have freedom of speech and let their members decide if it is the truth, andlet their members research on their own without telling them that if they look at someones site, that they are damned for all eternity. i don’t like that i really don’t. no one can decide who is damned, and who is not. only God can decide that, and not us.

***I told my husband that same thing. Only God decides who goes and who stays… and you know what? He actually said I was right ***

what right does the governing body have to instill such terrible fear into ones heart and mind and soul? it sounds to me like emotional blackmail to tell someone that “hey man, your damned for all eternity because you did this or said that, and if the society says your damned so your damned!”

Only God will, no man can say if you’re damned or not

---

do they not know that they have no right to state who lives and who dies? where do they get the authority to state for 100% certain that jane or john doe is damned for all eternity? it is blackmail! do this or else!

it’s their way of keeping the JWs w/in their society, and they think the Holy Spirit actually told them who are the ones that will be going to heaven and they just have to “immitate” Christ to be saved, but then, they also say that they’re not completely sure if they themselves will be saved ( ypu must already know this since you were a JW)

---

the tract made me feel sorry for them. why? because it is the same old rhetoric, and to me, it is like this tract is old news that has been re hashed thousands of times, and makes one wonder if some jw’s are just sick and tired of listening to the same old rhetoric time and time again? it is like they are to me, lost sheep.

They say that it’s because there are new members to their society, that being the reson why they repeat everything over and over and over again… the point? TO GET IT STUCK ON THEIR HEADS

the Master separates the sheep from the goats. one day, there will be freedom for all jw’s, all they have to do is accept the light that is Jesus Christ, and rid themselves of the falsehoods. its not easy, therefore we must be there for them.

I hope this happens soon so my husband can see the light

if your of a mind, don’t close your door on the next jw that you see coming to your house. all it takes is a seed from the Master to plant and to take root and bear good fruit. you could be chosen as the one who plants the seed, cultivate it and watch it grow.

Another reason why I just joined the Serra Catechetical Institute… yay for me!! I start this Saturday ( a 2-yr program to become a Catechist I hope to be able to help people see the light, my husband included

---

---

oakdiocese.org/pastoral/SCI/

 

[Marilena]

may i ask you a question? feel free to say no. are you able to celebrate holidays and birthdays in your home since your married to a jw?

may i also ask you, and again, feel free not to answer. how do you deal with it if your not allowed to celebrate in your home?

iam only asking because there are many of us who haved lived in this situation, and perhaps there are ones here who are in similar situations but don’t know what to do about it? also, it might help Catholic’s understand the complexities of it.

what advice would you give to those in similar situations?

 

[cestusdei]

Notice in Rev. 14:4 the 144,000 are celibate. Something interesting for JW’s to consider.

 

[yessisan]

may i ask you a question? feel free to say no. are you able to celebrate holidays and birthdays in your home since your married to a jw?

I can celebrate birthdays and holiday just haven’t tried to do it at home. He comes with me to family birthday parties, last xmas he bought me a present and he already said he’d buy me one this yr. He also bought me a bday present and went to dinner with my parents for that same reason. Another thing is that I convinced him of going to my parents’ for Thanksgiving. The one thing I’m having a hard time though is putting up a crusifix and xmas decorations. He doesn’t want me to, but I think I will. Maybe not since he agreed to have a radical sanation done for our marriage.

may i also ask you, and again, feel free not to answer. how do you deal with it if your not allowed to celebrate in your home?

I have told him that it is important to me. He budged for my bday but not for xmas (yet). I told him my bday ws important to me and that I’d get mad if he didn’t say happy bday. I said I wasn’t expecting a gift nor a cake, but the greeting and the hug I was. He got off early from work to do this, and he said happy bday to me as soon as I woke up in the morning. I have to admit though that we have gotten in nasty arguments because of this, but I know he has his beliefs and I have mine. Also, I have made the mistake of calling his religion dumb (oops), but I try not to so I don’t offend him either.

iam only asking because there are many of us who haved lived in this situation, and perhaps there are ones here who are in similar situations but don’t know what to do about it? also, it might help Catholic’s understand the complexities of it.

what advice would you give to those in similar situations?

Communication is the key. Make sure you tell that person and reiterate as many times as you have to so you make your point.

In my case though, my husband is “excommunicated” and I am not sure if that has anything to do w/it, but he is still holds his ground on the JW thing, plus e will be reinstated soon =( Aside from this, I committed myself to learning about his religion so I could get to understand him better, and I have gone to his Kingdom Hall. We have had disagreements about things because he thinks that if he lets me have a crusifix or a xmas tree, that it would be bothersome to his conscience. I tell him that I have bothered to do things for him so he needs to do the same.

COMPROMISE - (even though my husband won’t). He said he doesn’t want me decorating the house, but I think I will because what is xmas season w/o the decorations? I know it’s not a requirement, but it makes you feel happy when you see a tree lit up full of colorful decorations. I told him it’s going to be a really sad xmas for me, but he doesn’t understand. He said that when he was Catholic he hated xmas because it made him depressed.

I really don’t know if it has been luck that he has agreed to certain things, but he won’t let me have others; or if it’s the fact that we communicate well.

I hope this helps. I wish I had a better answer to your questions but I am still struggling w/this issue. I hope one day he understands my needs & wants just as I understand his now.

 

[yessisan]

Notice in Rev. 14:4 the 144,000 are celibate. Something interesting for JW’s to consider.

That I have pointed out as well to my husband, and he says to me, “I’ll explain it later”…not only does my Catholic bible say that about the 144,000 but their JW version does too!! Most of their elders and helpers are married and have children…

When they don’t know the answer to a question they avoid you or find someone else to explain it to you…

 

[Marilena]

so, your saying hubby was disfellowshipped? he wants to be a jw again? any way you can talk him out of it?

 

[yessisan]

so, your saying hubby was disfellowshipped? he wants to be a jw again? any way you can talk him out of it?

that’s the word I was looking for, disfellowshipped, sorry. We’re Mexican so all the JW terms I know are in Spanish. He REALLY wants to be a JW again. He REALLY believes what they preach is the truth. I wish there was a way for me to talk him out of it, but I can’t. I don’t know enough of the bible nor Catholicism to show him my points. The few things I know I tell them to him (reason why I joined the Catechist class).

I really wish the blindfold would come off, but I cannot do anything. I have tried but he has his “the Bible says so” comments… can’t argue w/someone who knows the bible by heart…

You should know, JWs are really hard to talk to and to convince them that their beliefs are wrong.

 

[Marilena]

that’s the word I was looking for, disfellowshipped, sorry. We’re Mexican so all the JW terms I know are in Spanish. He REALLY wants to be a JW again. He REALLY believes what they preach is the truth. I wish there was a way for me to talk him out of it, but I can’t. I don’t know enough of the bible nor Catholicism to show him my points. The few things I know I tell them to him (reason why I joined the Catechist class).

I really wish the blindfold would come off, but I cannot do anything. I have tried but he has his “the Bible says so” comments… can’t argue w/someone who knows the bible by heart…

You should know, JWs are really hard to talk to and to convince them that their beliefs are wrong.

it can try one’s patience, but keep being persistant!