For Catholics who support the death penalty

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MidnightSun12 said:
Personally, I would much rather be on a forum that has a soft stance on the death penalty then a forum that has a pro-abortion, pro-same sex union or a pro-contraception stance.

In the political world, we have to pick our evils. I like to avoid the intrinsic ones.
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I’m confused… how is the death penalty an intrinsic evil and abortion not? For the record, I’m against all murder - state sanctioned or otherwise.
 
MidnightSun12 said:
The reality is that there are two political parties in the United States. One supports the death penalty and a few issues on social justice that the church opposes, but generally condemns gay marriage, abortion, euthanasia, stem-cell research, etc… The other party opposes the death penalty and arguably has the moral high ground in areas of social justice but condones a whole swath of intrinsically EVIL policies. It is very clear which political party Catholics have the moral obligation to vote for.
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Uh oh I think you need to tell the 54% to 45% majority of Catholics that voted for Obama. Note the link below to the Washington Times. Not your liberal news media, just to stop ya before you use that reply.

washingtontimes.com/news/2008/nov/07/catholic-voters-heavily-favored-obama-analysis-sho/?page=all
 
I quote from seattlepi.com/news/articl…ty-2328278.php :
In the late 1990s, the Roman Catholic church hardened its opposition to the death penalty in a revised statement of its teaching. It said the death penalty is permissible only in the narrowest of circumstances, and only when there is no other way to protect the public.
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Read more: seattlepi.com/news/article/Pope-seeks-end-to-death-penalty-2328278.php#ixzz1rOGcmjag
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This alone proves that the death penalty is not an intrinsic evil. Issues of intrinsic evil must occupy the first priority on catholic’s voting intentions.
 
followingtheway said:
But for Pro-Death Penalty Catholics, why is it okay to execute a criminal? I mean their both “murderers” by Catholic standard, right?
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Well no. A criminal guilty of the most serious crimes can always be executed by the state, that’s the right of the state.

The Commandment of ‘thou shalt not kill’ is truly ‘thou shalt not murder’, and so those who do, the state can apply the justice of execution to.

Pope Sixtus V, when he ruled the Papal States, declared the death penalty for all those who committed an abortion in his Apostolic Constitution.

One can read it here.

He said amongst other things, quoting the Apostolic Constitution:

‘Noticing that frequently by various Apostolic Constitutions the audacity and daring of most profligate men, who know no restraint, of sinning with license against the commandment “do not kill” was repressed; We who are placed by the Lord in the supreme throne of justice, being counseled by a most just reason, are in part renewing old laws and in part extending them in order to restrain with just punishment the monstrous and atrocious brutality of those who have no fear to kill most cruelly fetuses still hiding in the maternal viscera. Who will not detest such an abhorrent and evil act, by which are lost not only the bodies but also the souls? [Popes believe in the limbo of the little ones] Who will not condemn to a most grave punishment the impiety of him who will exclude a soul created in the image of God and for which Our Lord Jesus Christ has shed His precious Blood, and which is capable of eternal happiness and is destined to be in the company of angels, from the blessed vision of God, and who has impeded as much as he could the filling up of heavenly mansions (left vacant by the fallen angels), and has taken away the service to God by His creature?’

And later it continues:

‘In addition We absolutely establish and decree that the same punishments are to be applied to those who give to women sterilizing potions, medicine and poisons in order to impede conception of the fetus and upon those who make and prepare such potions, medicine and poisons [e.g., for example, owners and employees of pharmaceutical companies directly involved and responsible] and upon those that give such a counsel, as well as on women who knowingly take such sterilizing potions, medicine and poisons. [Today we know that contraceptives are usually abortive].’
 
Shin said:
Well no. A criminal guilty of the most serious crimes can always be executed by the state, that’s the right of the state.

Pope Sixtus V, when he ruled the Papal States, declared the death penalty for all those who committed an abortion in his Apostolic Constitution.

One can read it here.

He said amongst other things, quoting the Apostolic Constitution:

‘Noticing that frequently by various Apostolic Constitutions the audacity and daring of most profligate men, who know no restraint, of sinning with license against the commandment “do not kill” was repressed; We who are placed by the Lord in the supreme throne of justice, being counseled by a most just reason, are in part renewing old laws and in part extending them in order to restrain with just punishment the monstrous and atrocious brutality of those who have no fear to kill most cruelly fetuses still hiding in the maternal viscera. Who will not detest such an abhorrent and evil act, by which are lost not only the bodies but also the souls? (Popes believe in the limbo of the little ones) Who will not condemn to a most grave punishment the impiety of him who will exclude a soul created in the image of God and for which Our Lord Jesus Christ has shed His precious Blood, and which is capable of eternal happiness and is destined to be in the company of angels, from the blessed vision of God, and who has impeded as much as he could the filling up of heavenly mansions (left vacant by the fallen angels), and has taken away the service to God by His creature?’

And later it continues:

‘In addition We absolutely establish and decree that the same punishments are to be applied to those who give to women sterilizing potions, medicine and poisons in order to impede conception of the fetus and upon those who make and prepare such potions, medicine and poisons [e.g., for example, owners and employees of pharmaceutical companies directly involved and responsible] and upon those that give such a counsel, as well as on women who knowingly take such sterilizing potions, medicine and poisons. [Today we know that contraceptives are usually abortive].’
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Like I said people here still support sticking the needle. :rolleyes:
 
Love_God_Too said:
I’m sorry you’re wrong. The Church has officially come out against the death penalty.
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The Church has said that it should be rare, if not nonexistant. But the Church also recognises that the State has the right to execute criminals.
2266 The State’s effort to contain the spread of behaviors injurious to human rights and the fundamental rules of civil coexistence corresponds to the requirement of watching over the common good. Legitimate public authority has the right and duty to inflict penalties commensurate with the gravity of the crime. The primary scope of the penalty is to redress the disorder caused by the offense. When his punishment is voluntarily accepted by the offender, it takes on the value of expiation. Moreover, punishment, in addition to preserving public order and the safety of persons, has a medicinal scope: as far as possible it should contribute to the correction of the offender.[67]
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2267 **Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.
If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.
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Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity “are very rare, if not practically non-existent.”
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’ **
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Is there a new Catechism of the Catholic Church that teaches something different?
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I agree that the Church teaches that the right of Capital Punishment should be little, if ever, used. But where exactly did the Church state that the State no longer has the right to execute criminals ( which was my statement)
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I’ve always wondered how someone can claim to be pro-life yet support the death penalty.

Apparently, pro-life ideology only includes innocent, cute babies. And not people accused of crimes.
 
Brendan said:
The Church has said that it should be rare, if not nonexistant. But the Church also recognises that the State has the right to execute criminals.

Is there a new Catechism of the Catholic Church that teaches something different?

I agree that the Church teaches that the right of Capital Punishment should be little, if ever, used. But where exactly did the Church state that the State no longer has the right to execute criminals ( which was my statement)
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pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/angel/procon/popestate.html
 
LemonAndLime said:
I’ve always wondered how someone can claim to be pro-life yet support the death penalty.

Apparently, pro-life ideology only includes innocent, cute babies. And not people accused of crimes.
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Well, it’s as the Pope says, to execute murders is respectful of life, because one is applying a just penalty to those who do not respect it – and it is preventing them from continuing to disrespect it.

We can all look back to Adam and Eve, and God’s response to original sin – He gave the death penalty to the entire human race, from then on. We all die eventually.

The life of the soul is the life that we must value most.
 
Shin said:
Well, it’s as the Pope says, to execute murders is respectful of life, because one is applying a just penalty to those who do not respect it – and it is preventing them from continuing to disrespect it.

We can all look back to Adam and Eve, and God’s response to original sin – He gave the death penalty to the entire human race, from then on. We all die eventually.

The life of the soul is the life that we must value most.
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Well then no offense to papal infallibility but two wrongs don’t make a right. 😃

Capital punishment, abortion… They’re both wrong.
 
Shin said:
Well, it’s as the Pope says, to execute murders is respectful of life, because one is applying a just penalty to those who do not respect it – and it is preventing them from continuing to disrespect it.

We can all look back to Adam and Eve, and God’s response to original sin – He gave the death penalty to the entire human race, from then on. We all die eventually.

The life of the soul is the life that we must value most.
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When has the Pope said he supports the death penalty?
 
The truth is those that are more to the right of me never can answer this hypocritical view they have. The allow their politics to have a higher position in their lives than their faith. When it comes to the poor and tax policy, when it comes to torture, when it comes war and bombing innocents, far too many Catholics remain silent while their party takes the lead in their lives.

For the record I’m pro-life.
 
mitex said:
Well then no offense to papal infallibility but two wrongs don’t make a right. 😃

Capital punishment, abortion… They’re both wrong.
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Well, I understand you’re Episcopalian, but you know the death penalty is given by God and delegated by God to the state in Holy Scriptures, so, regardless, to say it’s wrong flatly, is to contradict God.

One can say it should not be applied except rarely, certainly, but to say it’s flat out wrong, is wrong.
 
Shin said:
Well, I understand you’re Episcopalian, but you know the death penalty is given by God and delegated by God to the state in Holy Scriptures, so, regardless, to say it’s wrong flatly, is to contradict God.

One can say it should not be applied except rarely, certainly, but to say it’s flat out wrong, is wrong.
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My Church firmly opposes capital punishment! How dare you say I am going against God! :mad:

The nerve some people have on here!
 
Shin said:
Look earlier in the thread. You can’t find a Pope who says it’s intrinsically immoral, not one, because that after all, as just said…
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Pope Benedict XVI encouraged countries around the world to end the death penalty as a legal sanction at his Nov. 30 general audience.

Addressing a group of pilgrims gathered in Rome for an international conference on the controversial topic, the Pope said he hopes that their deliberations “will encourage the political and legislative initiatives being promoted in a growing number of countries to eliminate the death penalty.”

Read more: ncregister.com/daily-news/pope-benedict-end-the-death-penalty/#ixzz1rOMHB9Dm

So, if it believes its not immoral why would he campaign against it?
 
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