For my family's sake what are the odds of an African pope?

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confusedgirl said:
Well this is going to be my third pope coming up soon. I am sort of excited for two reasons one Its a new beginning and a new pope gets me excited for the faith but probably one thing that can change our family forever. My mom is Jamaican and I told her that the cardinals aren’t all European there are African Cardinals too and our next pope could be African. She said if that were to happen she would convert to Catholicism. My mom isn’t an atheist and if that was to happen she would know that higher powers are at play :clapping: Honestly I dont really care too much if the pope is African, Asian, or European. However, this is a chance for my mom to actually listen to me and take the faith seriously :extrahappy: she really loves her church but I dislike anytime the have a baptism or communion service or baby christening and talk about how catholic methods are not scriptural. Honestly I know the scripture 2 Timothy 3:16 all scripture is God breathed but that doesn’t mean that God wrote it down on paper too. I mean the catholic church printed it on paper so I am certain they have a good idea of what is and what isn’t scriptural :amen: But I want my mom to give catholicism a chance. My entire life I have never heard any positive things said about the catholic church when I went to church with my mom and anything I was told was all half truths that I learned for myself. I have just come to not trust anything that someone tells me about catholicism and learn about it through someone who understands the faith better than me or pick up a book about it. Anyways what are the odds for an African pope. I mean we are coming pretty darn close aren’t we? We went from 400 years of straight italian popes to a polish pope then a german pope going a little more south could be a good change. Does anyone honestly think that she will convert? There would be peace at home me and my brother are trying to become catholic but my mom insists on staying with her church. I think that if the next pope is african it would be that wake up that God is actually in the Catholic church and you should be in it too. But I am understanding if hey the pope isn’t supposed to be african because its not my will but God’s will. What are your thoughts? I would totally be open to an African pope 😃 and I am praying that my mom does convert :gopray2: but honestly my mom not coverting wouldnt affect my conversion ive made up mind.
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The odds are decent, but I would also like to recommend you and your mother check out an African American Pentecostal who converted. It is an interesting story:
catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0077.html
 
Although Evangelical/Pentecostal faith is very popular in Latin America and Africa, none of the Latin American papabili I’ve researched so far strike me as charismatic Catholics.

I don’t know if Turkson is charismatic Catholic or not. Turkson, as I said, is a good diplomat, who may be perceived as someone who can handle political turmoil in Africa, including Islamic extremism. In fact, he created a stir by presenting an anti-Islamic film at the recent synod on Evangelization! That offends me! I wouldn’t want someone like that as Pope.

Islam is also a minority force in the Philippines.Tagle, as an Asian, is more committed to inter-religious dialog and cooperation. He’s more a peace-maker. That makes more sense to me.
 
adelpit said:
Confused Girl, the odds of a black Pope are good. According to oddsmaker PaddyPower.com, the front-runner is Card. Angela Scola, with 11/4 odds, followed by African Card. Peter Turkson of Ghana, with 7/2 odds. Scola leads the pack because he’s been on a track followed by many Popes, first as Patriarch of Venice, then as Arch. of Milan.

Turkson is second in the pack, I think, because he’s a good diplomat especially in African affairs, because African Christianity is flourishing. However, I’m very skeptical of a man who is comfortable with laws in Africa criminalizing homosexuality, sometimes punishable by death, because it’s “traditional”.

I’m fond of a ‘dark horse’–Card. Tagle of Manila Philippines. He’s a dark-horse because he’s been a cardinal a very short while and because he’s young. But might the conclave be looking for someone like that, someone who can’t be tarred with grave responsibility for the global sex abuse scandal? He studied in the US under Dulles and Komonchak, two of our best theologians. He said in an audio interview that he would like the church to “listen more” and “not pretend to have all the answers”; and that there are “different approaches to the truth”. There are many things to like about him. Many good things are said in the article and videos I’m posting. His flock adores him! He has charisma, humility, piety, knows how to work the media and seems to roll into one many good qualities of John Paul and John 23rd. Charismatic renewal is big in the Philippines. Maybe he would please you and your mother.

There’s much talk and rumor that a Latin American will be elected. Maradiaga has a good resume but I don’t want a man who said Jews control the media!

Look into Tagle. If you’re as impressed as I am, write your Cardinal. You have the right and perhaps the obligation to do so, under Canon 122.

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1204499.htm
youtu.be/eu4ooS5H8sA
youtu.be/iDHzK8Rtwfw

If the analysis in this article is correct, Tagle has a chance. ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/why-resignation-may-mean-conclave-open-change
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I have read a little about Cardinal Peter Turkson he seems like a very impressive guy and I would be very thrilled if he were the next pope. In fact, if anyone was the new pope. Cardinal Luis Tagle seems like a very impressive candidate as well I would gladly love to see a younger person become pope. We can get rid of that sterotype saying all popes are archaic men. (I of course do respect the popes of the pastI don’t know much about Cardinal Angela Scola but I will look into him a little bit more. However I think you are right about the whole criminalization of homosexuality. I think really its how I grew up in the 21st century in the city and I do have homosexual friends and I really wouldn’t be totally aboard with a pope who wants to put them to death… :sad_yes: Well whoever it is I hope they are a great leader the church needs a good one
 
Zekariya said:
Also, one of the great the Desert Fathers (the first monastics) is St Moses the Black:

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/551536_131601910344483_1561223396_n.jpg
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And African saints and fathers do not begin or end in the 4th-5th century with St. Moses or St. Augustine, either. Even down to the 20th century, there are those who have followed in the footsteps of St. Moses, such as Fr. Abdelmasih el-Habashi (“the Ethiopian”), who joined el-Baramous Monastery in Wadi Natrun and lived a life there of great holiness. A Coptic-produced movie of his life, in Arabic (with a little of Ge’ez and Amharic in some parts) with English subtitles, is available in eight parts at the link below, if anyone is interested in knowing more of this great saintly man:

Abouna Abdelmasih el-Habashi movie
 
adelpit said:
Although Evangelical/Pentecostal faith is very popular in Latin America and Africa, none of the Latin American papabili I’ve researched so far strike me as charismatic Catholics.

I don’t know if Turkson is charismatic Catholic or not. Turkson, as I said, is a good diplomat, who may be perceived as someone who can handle political turmoil in Africa, including Islamic extremism. In fact, he created a stir by presenting an anti-Islamic film at the recent synod on Evangelization! That offends me! I wouldn’t want someone like that as Pope.

Islam is also a minority force in the Philippines.Tagle, as an Asian, is more committed to inter-religious dialog and cooperation. He’s more a peace-maker. That makes more sense to me.
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The more I read about Cardinal Tagle the more I feel like he is more of what I would consider an ideal church. My mom would like to see an African pope and it seems that Cardinal Turkson would be more plausible to her ideals. She isn’t even catholic and she seems to already disagree with me on the pope without actually knowing or caring about the pope 🤷
 
Monkey1976 said:
That the next pope will be African? Only God knows.
The odds of an African pope in general? 100%! There have been 3 so far:
  • Pope St. Gelasius I
  • Pope St. Miltiades
  • Pope St. Victor I
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I think that when people speak on an African pope, they mean a black man. North Africa was Christian, but that area was different in terms of ethnicity, as it is today.
 
Contra_Mundum said:
I think that when people speak on an African pope, they mean a black man. North Africa was Christian, but that area was different in terms of ethnicity, as it is today.
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That brings up an interesting matter.

Simon of Cyrene, African, usually portrayed as Black. There were Black Pharoahs, Nubians I believe and the Nubians were black but may have hailed from what would today be Sudan but that is a matter of studying history however, I thought it was acknowledged that the Moors were black and they were from what is present day Morocco. <— If I have all this straight and the Moors of course, invaded Spain.
 
Contra_Mundum said:
I think that when people speak on an African pope, they mean a black man. North Africa was Christian, but that area was different in terms of ethnicity, as it is today.
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True, to an extent. Augustine, for instance, was Imazighen (what we know in English [via Arabic, via Greek] as “Berber”, but that is pejorative). But there have always been also indigenous black Africans in North Africa, too, like the Nubian people of upper Egypt (who were Christian for centuries before the coming of Islam, which destroyed their ancient Christian kingdom). Since ancient times, they were depicted in Egyptian art as very dark people. Probably the most famous Nubian (of mixed Nubian Egyptian/Sudanese heritage) was former Egyptian President Anwar Sadat. My Coptic friends tell me that especially after he signed the peace treaty with Israel he faced a lot of criticism that had a lot of racist undertones, since he was considered “too black” by many Egyptians. 😦
 
FYI…a 2012 article…but excellent food for thought.
Pax Christi
National Catholic Reporter–NCR Online
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Note: (NCR is not in communion with their bishop…has many heretical positions and most often works against Pope bishops and Magisterium…they are part of the "Class of 1968​
" (George Weigel), but Allen is a very good reporter and stays out of most heterodoxy issues…this part of his article is data based and factual/historical…and would recommend the entire article at link provided below)
​
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Three myths about the church to give up for Lent
John L. Allen Jr. | Mar. 2, 2012
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2. A church in decline
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**The popular take on Catholicism these days tends to be that it’s a church in crisis. **Rocked by sex scandals, bruising political fights and financial shortfalls, it seems to be hemorrhaging members – a recent Pew Forum study found there are now 22 million ex-Catholics in America, which would be the country’s second-largest religious body after what’s left of the Catholic church itself – as well as clustering parishes, closing institutions and struggling to hand on the faith to the next generation.
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The overall perception is that this is an era of Catholic entropy – decline, contraction, things getting smaller.
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Seen from global perspective, however, that’s just wildly wrong. The** last half-century witnessed the greatest period of missionary expansion in the 2,000-year history of Catholicism, fueled by explosive growth in the southern hemisphere. **Take sub-Saharan Africa as a case in point: The Catholic population at the dawn of the 20th century was 1.9 million, while by the end of the century it was more than 130 million, representing a staggering growth rate of 6,708 percent. Overall, the global Catholic footprint shot up from 266 million in 1900 to 1.1 billion in 2000, ahead of the overall rate of increase in world population, and is still rising today.
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[Note: when Blessed Pope John Paul II became pope in 1978…there were @ 600 million Catholics worldwide…when he died just 27 years later…there were as note above 1.2 billion Catholics worldwide… just one pope’s pontificate saw a doubling of the Catholics…a work of the Holy Spirit and individual people accepting God’s grace…Blessed JP-II like all of us in the Church already…we are simply instruments…some are great instruments like JP-II…some are simple faithful instruments…but all simply instruments]…its all the Holy Spirit
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The dominant Catholic narrative of our time, in other words, is not decline but astronomic growth. (That’s not true everywhere, as there are significant losses in Europe, parts of North America and in some pockets of Latin America, but it is the global big picture.)
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Running those numbers, one is reminded of a famous 2003 essay by David Brooks, poking fun at secular elites who like to believe that religion is in decline: “A great Niagara of religious fervor is cascading down around them,” he wrote, "while they stand obtuse and dry in the little cave of their own parochialism."
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[John L. Allen Jr. is NCR’s senior correspondent. His email address is jallen@ncronline.org.]
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ncronline.org/blogs/all-things-catholic/three-myths-about-church-give-lent
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miguel said:
Very nice post. I hope you get your wish. The faith is growing in Africa. One of the greatest of the early Church fathers, St Augustine, was African. He was one of the greatest thinkers the Catholic Church had, ever. Does your mom know that? Peace to you sister.
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There have also been three African popes (all saints too) - Pope St Victor i, Pope St Miltiades, and Pope St. Gelasius I.

Of course, like St Augustine, they were North Africans of Latinized Berber (and perhaps Phoenician by way of Carthage) stock (and thus, not black African), but the point remains - Not all great popes have been from Europe.

My prayer for this conclave is that the most orthodox and holy man may be elected, regardless of race.
 
adelpit said:
In fact, he created a stir by presenting an anti-Islamic film at the recent synod on Evangelization! That offends me! I wouldn’t want someone like that as Pope.
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Steer clear of our current Holy Father’s Regensburg Address, then.

I am happy when any Catholic prelate calls error error. Especially when it’s the pope.
 
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