For Non-Catholic Christians: Is obeying the Ten Commandments necessary for salvation?

[IHS]

The ten commandments cannot save us. They reveal to us that we are sinners and why we need a savior.

 

[Mannyfit75]

The ten commandments cannot save us. They reveal to us that we are sinners and why we need a savior.

God saves, but we must love God first, and obey his commandments. All of them.

 

[Mannyfit75]

So if you are not saved by Faith Alone, what did Jesus mean in Luke 7:50?

That doesn’t say alone. It said faith. Faith itself cannot save. It has to be faith in union with deeds, or works. God’s grace saves us all.

 

[IHS]

God saves, but we must love God first, and obey his commandments. All of them.

If we could obey the 10 commandments would we need a savior?

 

[FillTheVoid]

He first loved us, we were dead in a trespasses and sins remember?

By the way Faith does save because true faith has fruits, works, deeds, obediance etc etc

 

[Mannyfit75]

If we could obey the 10 commandments would we need a savior?

Let me put it this way, we need God. There are many righteous men and women in the Bible who live a righteous life. Luke 1:6-7 “And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinancies of the Lord blameless.” (They as in Zechariah and Elizabeth.

A righteous man is a prayful man and is obedient to his will, and all the commandments. They do need a savior because it is God’s grace that we are saved.

It is not faith alone that saves.

 

[Mannyfit75]

He first loved us, we were dead in a trespasses and sins remember?

By the way Faith does save because true faith has fruits, works, deeds, obediance etc etc

yes faith saves but not by itself. Faith alone doesn’t save.

 

[simbagizmo]

The Baptism of Desire

simbagizmo:

Originally Posted by simbagizmo
How do you explain the salvation of the thief on the cross? He was just hanging there with Jesus, unable to do any works. What did he do other than believe to gain his salvation? He did not attend church, was not baptized of water, confess any of his specific sins, and broke many of the commandments. But all he did was confess that Jesus was Lord and confess that he was not worthy of any mercy, and put his faith in Jesus for salvation.

(John 14): “He that loveth Me, shall be loved of my Father: and I will love him and will manifest myself to him.” And again: “If any one love me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him, and will make our abode with him.”

Exactly. There is no other work the thief did, but repent and believe. Hanging on the cross, it is impossible for him to do anything else. What did Jesus say about what work that needs to be done for salvation?

John 6
27 Labor not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I already explain the thief on the cross. He did do something to be saved by repenting. If the thief had said nothing, do you think he is saved?

 

[Rocky]

It is not faith alone, nor works alone that save a person. It is God’s grace alone that saves through the person’s faith and works. Otherwise, why would anyone feel the necessity of putting the word “true” before the word “faith”, unless they were trying to make a distinction between a true faith and a false faith. And the distinction they make is that works define a true faith.

 

[Mannyfit75]

It is not faith alone, nor works alone that save a person. It is God’s grace alone that saves through the person’s faith and works. Otherwise, why would anyone feel the necessity of putting the word “true” before the word “faith”, unless they were trying to make a distinction between a true faith and a false faith. And the distinction they make is that works define a true faith.

I have pointed that out in the later threads.

 

[simbagizmo]

Show me where in the Bible does it teach that we are saved by “faith alone.” They can’t, because it doesn’t.

Not true

Luke7:50 And He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

Here Jesus says the woman is saved by faith. Not faith and something else. Just faith.

Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Here Jesus was telling the Jews to work for the eternal bread. The Jews asked Jesus what are the works of God. Jesus response is to believe in Jesus.

Act 15:9 and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 "Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?
Act 15:11 “But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.”

Here Paul states the Gentiles are saved by faith. Not faith and something else. Here he further clarifies this by asking why the Jews were teaching the Gentiles that salvation is by works of the Law that no one can uphold.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Here Paul states we are saved through faith. And further clarifies that we are not saved by any works we can do.

2Ti 1:8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord or of me His prisoner, but join with me in suffering for the gospel according to the power of God,
2Ti 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,

Here Paul states that we are saved NOT according to our works.

Tit 3:5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
Tit 3:6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
Tit 3:7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Here Paul states that we are saved NOT on the basis of deeds which we evendo in righteousness.

Saved by Faith not Works is definitely taught in Scripture. There are many more verses I could quote here also.

The only place in all of Scripture where the phrase “Faith Alone” appears, is in James…James 2:24, where it says that we are not…not…justified (or saved) by faith alone.

Please read this verse in context. James is talking about those that profess to have faith and think they are saved, but have not put their faith in Jesus. For by putting you faith in Jesus, you will produce good works. Because Faith in Jesus will change a person from doing their will to pursueing God’s will. So you can judge and test to be assured of saving faith by the fruit you produce. Saying you have faith, without showing evidence of faith by your works, is dead faith. But Faith is was saves. The works is a consequence of Faith.

So, one of the two main pillars of Protestantism…the doctrine of salvation by faith alone…not only doesn’t appear in the Bible, but the Bible actually says the exact opposite - that we are not saved by faith alone

This is just not true as shown above and again there are many more verses where Scriptures teaches to believe for eternal life.

Third, I ask them that if works have nothing to do with our salvation…then how come every passage in the N.T. that I know of that talks about judgment says we will be judged by our works, not by whether or not we have faith alone? We see this in Rom 2, Matthew 15 and 16, 1 Ptr 1, Rev 20 and 22, 2 Cor 5, and many, many more verses.

Works are done is response to Faith. Works then can perfect Faith. And the works one does can impact the rewards received in heaven.

1Co 3:13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[simbagizmo]

Fourth, I ask them that if we are saved by faith alone, why does 1 Cor 13:13 say that love is greater than faith? Shouldn’t it be the other way around?

Because God’s greatest commandments is Love God and Neighbor. Faith is driven by love of God. When you choose to Love God above all else, you are putting your faith in him above all else.

As Catholics we believe that we are saved by God’s grace alone. We can do nothing, apart from God’s grace, to receive the free gift of salvation. We also believe, however, that we have to respond to God’s grace. Protestants believe that, too. However, many Protestants believe that the only response necessary is an act of faith; whereas, Catholics believe a response of faith and works is necessary…or, as the Bible puts it in Galatians 5:6, “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumsion is of any avail, but faith working through love…faith working through love…just as the Church teaches.

Here I totally agree with you. I know some Protestants have a misunderstanding of the Faith Alone doctrine. That if they just say they believe, they are saved. Scripture teaches against this also. James is a good example of this. Paul also teaches this when telling us to test ourselved that we are in the faith. So I do understand where you get the image you have on Faith Alone. Faith Alone is much deeper than lip service. Faith Alone is obedience of God’s Word, pursuit of God’s will. This will produce good works that will stand up in the test of fire.

 

[Mannyfit75]

The word faith itself is not the issue here. The problem I have as well as other Catholics, and what the Catholic Church is the concept of Faith ALONE. The word Alone itself cannot be justified for our salvation.

Faith by itself is dead just as James had written in his letters. James 18-26.

But some will say, “You have faith and have I works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. You believe that God is one, you do well. Even the demons believe and shudder. Do you want to show be shown, you shallow man, that apart from faith from works is barren? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son, Issac upon the alter? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works, and the scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned by to him as righteous”; and he was called the friend of God. You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. And the same way was not Rahab the harlot justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so is faith apart from works is dead.

In the Scripture passages in which Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you.” The verse does not prove faith alone. If that were the case, then Paul himself would contradict Jesus. I don’t see that way nor does the Catholic Church.

 

[AlegreFe]

simbagizmo all those verses are true as they are the Word of God and God does not lie.

But you have to read the WHOLE Bible in context.
43 And a woman afflicted with hemorrhages for twelve
years, who (had spent her whole livelihood on doctors and)
was unable to be cured by anyone,
44 came up behind him and touched the tassel on
his cloak. Immediately her bleeding stopped. Luke 8:43-44
She actually did something here; sounds like “works” to me. We all have to actually DO something to show our faith. This woman is no exception here.

47 When the woman realized that she had not escaped
notice, she came forward trembling. Falling down before him,
she explained in the presence of all the people why
she had touched him and how she had been healed
immediately.
48 He said to her, “Daughter, your faith has saved you; go
in peace.” Luke 8:47-48
This woman showed her faith by touching the cloak of Jesus.

We all have to show our faith. If we do not show our faith then our faith is DEAD.
24 See how a person is justified by works and
not by faith alone.
25 And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also
justified by works when she welcomed the messengers
and sent them out by a different route?
26 For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also
faith without works is dead. Jas 2:24-26

Protestants say “Faith alone” but Catholics say “Grace Alone!”
But we get Grace through Faith. And we show our Faith with works.

 

[happygal]

Ten commandment is a must for all Christian to obey, of couse it is not easy and that’s explain why God listed those ten important where he understand that most pple will need to struggle and overcome it. If those who can claim that they can have salvation without Salvation, then i wonder why God wanted to make Ten commandement official…contradicting…

 

[Mannyfit75]

Ten commandment is a must for all Christian to obey, of couse it is not easy and that’s explain why God listed those ten important where he understand that most pple will need to struggle and overcome it. If those who can claim that they can have salvation without Salvation, then i wonder why God wanted to make Ten commandement official…contradicting…

Amen to that. Suppose I say there were not necessary and I was a married man. I would commit adultery, watch porn, encourage my daughter to have an abortion, etc. Does that sound morally sound for a Christian?

 

[happygal]

Amen to that. Suppose I say there were not necessary and I was a married man. I would commit adultery, watch porn, encourage my daughter to have an abortion, etc. Does that sound morally sound for a Christian?

Yup Manny, agree with that. No Christian/Catholic can say they do not obey Ten Commandment, otherwise i will question them then why want to believe God when you don’t obey the commandment!!!

 

[simbagizmo]

The word faith itself is not the issue here. The problem I have as well as other Catholics, and what the Catholic Church is the concept of Faith ALONE. The word Alone itself cannot be justified for our salvation.

Jesus told the woman your faith has saved you. Period. That means exactly what it says and this is from Jesus himself.

I would like to pull a quote from AlegreFe if you don’t mind.

AlegreFe:

But we get Grace through Faith. And we show our Faith with works.

This is exactly right. We put our faith in Jesus Christ, believe that he alone can bring us salvation. That nothing I can do will be good enough. Doing this, we are given Grace and salvation and are born again in Spirit. Hence salvation through faith, the Faith Alone doctrine. To not misquote AlegreFe, he does not come to the conclustion of Faith Alone, but Grace Alone. I do not want to misrepresent his view. But his statement was very well said.

Once we put our faith in Jesus, we are reborn in Spirit, we are a new creation

2Co 5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

Being a new creature in Christ, we are created for good works.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Now through faith we are in Christ and he in us. The works we now do are not our works, but the works of Christ. For once we have put our faith in Him, we seek to do His will, instead of our own. Therefore all works done is to and for the Glory of Christ, not of ourselves. We cannot take credit for them, nor boast in them. But the works we do, increases our reward in heaven.

1Co 3:8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.

And these works done by the faithful will be tested with fire, and the faithful will receive his reward based on the works that are not burned up.

1Co 3:12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
1Co 3:13 each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work.
1Co 3:14 If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

But please notice the very last sentence. “but he himself will be saved”. Even though the faithful may have all his works burned up, because he did them for his own glory and not for God, he may receive no reward in heaven, but “he himself will be saved”.

Does this contradict James? Well, we all know that it cannot. Scripture will never contradict.

Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
Jam 2:18 But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.”
Jam 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
Jam 2:20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
Jam 2:22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;

Does one who professes to have faith, really have faith if they do not show it by works? Jesus says no.

Matthew 7
15 "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
16 "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
17 "So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 "So then, you will know them by their fruits.

This is what James is writing about. Though one may profess or even believe that Jesus is the Christ, they have not put their faith in him nor repented. So, as James says, “Faith without works in dead”. But nowhere does James say that works effects salvation. He states it is an indicator of faith. So Paul and James do not contradict.

We are saved by Faith, through Grace, and Faith is shown by works. This is the Faith Alone doctrine.

 

[Mom_of_5]

The Ten commandments boil down to one…LOVE!! If we love one another in the truest sense, we would not “kill”, “commit adultry”, “steal”, etc. That being said, it would seem that common sense would tell us that anyone who is truly loving towards his/her fellow man is obeying the commandments, no matter what religion or lack there-of, and whether or not that person has ever heard of them.

Love and peace, Mom of 5