For People Who Think

[swariffin]

Really? I thought the RCC was the one true path to salvation? Do you feel that an Atheist or Muslim who lives a good life full of noble deeds can reach heaven? Do tell…

Dear LaMar,

Not only do I feel, I do believe that an Atheist of Muslim or Buddhist or Ahmadians or Hinduist or whatever who loves other people, loves their enemies, and even give his/her life for a person he/she loves, will make it into the kingdom of God. I am a Catholic, and I believe the RCC teaches this, even the bible says so.

 

[LaMar]

Hey Fish,

I sure hope you don’t take any hassles, as I think this ranks as one of the best articles I’ve read here.

My view – and I know I’m going to take flak for this – is that those who say they aren’t Christians, but act like they are, are in a better spot then those who *claim *to be, but do not put their faith into their actions.

I go by the parable Jesus told – I’m sure I posted it here somewhere before – about the man who had two sons. Dad tells No 1 Son, “Go out and work the fields.” Son says, “Sure, pop,” but buzzes off somewhere else. Dad tells No 2 Son, “Go out and work the fields.” Son says, “No way!” but goes out and works the fields anyways. Jesus then asks, who is doing the will of the Father?

The Catholic Church has indeed stated that there is no salvation outside the Church – but it has explained that it doesn’t mean that literally only those with their parish envelopes will get to heaven. On the other hand, the Church vehemently denies the doctrine of sola fide – that works are pointless.

And while some popes, pastors and posters may say all kinds of criteria about who will get to heaven or not, no one can say that any one is going/has gone to hell. That’s solely up to God. Hell may be empty (outside of Satan & Co) for all we know. The only caveat here is the Church can, has, and does say if a particular person may definitely be in Heaven (the saints).

As for spending eternity in Heaven (assuming I go there, God willin’) with someone I don’t like here in the forums…well, if God can forgive, why shouldn’t I? Besides, Heaven is about God (which is the way it’s *supposed *to be down here: “on earth as it is in Heaven”). I’m sure I can get along with all the other guests, because the Host is so cool!

Thanks for taking the time to write this out. It’s going into the “future reference” pile, fershur. (Sister Amy, Valke and paarsurrey are in there already; so it’s like Heaven on my hard drive, a pretty diverse clime.)

 

[hamba2han]

I fully understand the logic and I appriciate the answer. I do find a hole in the logic, however. If God is truly all-powerful, why resort to a trick? Why not pull him out, spirit him off, send an Angel down? Why not show some of the power to the world so that, like Egypt in the time of Moses, they would KNOW that He is God?

Man has to resort to disguises and camoflage. God does not.

Questions can also be asked of the exodus of the ancient Israelites out of Egypt.

*Why was it necessary to drown Pharaoh and his army when God could easily have saved Moses (pbuh) and his people without the need to have anyone killed?

Would not the incredible sight of the sea miraculously parting have been enough to convince them to convert to the faith of Moses (pbuh)?*

These kind of absolute questions regarding the “logic” of why the Creator does the things that He does does not serve any meaningful purpose while we are still in this world and it really is best for the creations to leave such questions unanswered till the Day when we get to meet our Creator.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Questions can also be asked of the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt.

Why was it necessary to drown Pharaoh and his army when God could easily have saved Moses (pbuh) and his people without the need to have anyone killed?

Would not the incredible sight of the sea miraculously parting have been enough to convince them to convert to the faith of Moses (pbuh)?

These kind of absolute questions regarding the “logic” of why the Creator does the things that He does does not serve any meaningful purpose while we are still in this world and it really is best for the creations to leave such questions unanswered till the Day when we get to meet our Creator.

Maybe God wanted something monumental to show us how water can be used in his plan; Obviously - I’m talking about baptism.

But then again, maybe I’m wrong because there are plenty of people who don’t believe in baptism.

 

[Ghoti]

Questions can also be asked of the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt.

Why was it necessary to drown Pharaoh and his army when God could easily have saved Moses (pbuh) and his people without the need to have anyone killed?

Would not the incredible sight of the sea miraculously parting have been enough to convince them to convert to the faith of Moses (pbuh)?

Obviously it wasn’t, because Pharaoh ordered his armies after the Children of Israel.

It seemed to be a good tactic – Egypt didn’t try invading again till 1973.

And after umpteen plagues failed to make Pharaoh “let my people go”, it just shows how obstinate Pharaoh was. Left to his own devices, he probably would have chased the Israelites to Korea.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

I know I’m theistgal-come-lately in this thread, so I apologize, but I just had to respond to this one – because it’s kind of amusing that you criticize the Roman Catholic Church for not saying we’re “judged on deeds”, while in other threads (and all over the Internet), it’s criticized for saying exactly the opposite!

Aint it the truth. Everyone should read that Catholic book the Protestants claim to be their own especially Matthew 25:31 ff.

CDL

 

[kalt]

Why do you take something so simple and make it complicated?

Obviously when he thumbed her on her chest, she didn’t consider it beating. Which is why she said he NEVER beat ANYONE, not a woman, not a servent. FYI, if you beat someone with a stick, **it’s the same **as beating them with your hand.

I take both accounts and reconcile them thus. She didn’t consider it a beating.

I think Americans are hyper-vigilant when it comes to abuse.

Some people think that spanking a child is ok. Others think it’s abuse.

I wouldn’t call “thumping” someone on the chest abuse. But I would consider it atagonistic an inappropriate. But that’s by today’s American standards.

When you look at behaviors from that long ago, you have to take the times and culture into consideration.

 

[kalt]

It’s supposed do.

Don’t you realize that people do what they want anyway, even if it’s against the religion?

I know you’re not going to tell me that every Catholic person on the planet is good and honest and upright 100%.

If people would stick to their religion and what their religions teach, the world would be a much better place in my opinion. It’s when they think they can do better that they abandon real morality and fall into error, fall into decadence. I’m not really forgiving on this point. Sorry if I seem harsh but it is NOT okay.

"Don’t you realize that people do what they want anyway, even if it’s against the religion?

I know you’re not going to tell me that every Catholic person on the planet is good and honest and upright 100%. "

I’m going to end this discussion now, because you’re not even reading my posts. You wouldn’t have asked that question if you had.

If Islam is universal, then you must accept that was the Islamists are doing in the name of Islam is representative of a faction of Islam, and stop blaming the secular world for the Islamists’ actions.

FWIW, the normal world doesn’t consider these nutty people representative of true Islam. We think they’re off their rockers and are using the religion to do as they please. If were about the secular world, they would drop the religion and commit these crimes in the name of the state, like the USSR did. It is about their version of Islam, not about secular influences.

We do know that they aren’t practicing Islam the way it’s meant to be practiced. I already said that.

I’m not bashing Islam. I’m talking about those who use it to commit crimes against women. No use blaming the secular world for their crimes. They’re doing there things in the name of Islam, so it is about religion and how it’s being misused to trample women.

 

[Booklover]

Talk about coming clean, why dont you change your profile from lds to muslim?

Hi Ellen! I’ve been thinking the same thing!

Vickie

 

[LaMar]

Hi Ellen! I’ve been thinking the same thing!

Vickie

While it would certainly be more “Catholic” of me to turn my brain off, and simply start spewing filth and insults at anyone I perceive as different, it’s really not my thing.

I’m pleasant to Sister Amy because she’s intelligent, erudite and urbane. She knows how to behave. The Muslims are funny that way. If I hang out with them, it’s not because I want to sign up; it’s a matter of quality and class. I’d rather talk to people who can teach me something.

Islam is interesting because it is substantive. The Catholic worldview seems to be about as stable as an elaborate fortress constructed out of empty beer cans. One swift kick and the whole thing collapses into a smelly heap of rubble. People like yourselves, for example, aren’t the types of people I allow anywhere near me in the real world for any length of time. Sure, I’m pleasant enough when I pass you on the street. I might even stop, smile, and contribute some small change toward your next meal; but there’s nothing I’m going to discuss with you.

You can call me anything, as long as it’s not one of you.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

While it would certainly be more “Catholic” of me to turn my brain off, and simply start spewing filth and insults at anyone I perceive as different, it’s really not my thing.

I’m pleasant to Sister Amy because she’s intelligent, erudite and urbane. She knows how to behave. The Muslims are funny that way. If I hang out with them, it’s not because I want to sign up; it’s a matter of quality and class. I’d rather talk to people who can teach me something.

Islam is interesting because it is substantive. The Catholic worldview seems to be about as stable as an elaborate fortress constructed out of empty beer cans. One swift kick and the whole thing collapses into a smelly heap of rubble. People like yourselves, for example, aren’t the types of people I allow anywhere near me in the real world for any length of time. Sure, I’m pleasant enough when I pass you on the street. I might even stop, smile, and contribute some small change toward your next meal; but there’s nothing I’m going to discuss with you.

You can call me anything, as long as it’s not one of you.

I will pray for you to be relieved of your nasty disposition but if “there’s nothing” you’re going to discuss with us, why are you here?

CDL

 

[dolphinlove]

While it would certainly be more “Catholic” of me to turn my brain off, and simply start spewing filth and insults at anyone I perceive as different, it’s really not my thing.

I’m pleasant to Sister Amy because she’s intelligent, erudite and urbane. She knows how to behave. The Muslims are funny that way. If I hang out with them, it’s not because I want to sign up; it’s a matter of quality and class. I’d rather talk to people who can teach me something.

Islam is interesting because it is substantive. The Catholic worldview seems to be about as stable as an elaborate fortress constructed out of empty beer cans. One swift kick and the whole thing collapses into a smelly heap of rubble. People like yourselves, for example, aren’t the types of people I allow anywhere near me in the real world for any length of time. Sure, I’m pleasant enough when I pass you on the street. I might even stop, smile, and contribute some small change toward your next meal; but there’s nothing I’m going to discuss with you.

You can call me anything, as long as it’s not one of you.

Maybe, for a pleasant change, you should turn your brain on and think, oh but then again, your a muslim, it would be hard for you to think out of what your conditioned to be.
Maybe you should read more post BY Catholics on here and see the intelligent responses they actually do give, but then again, it probably doesnt make any sense to you, cause the answers are intelligent and smart.

 

[IvanKaramozov]

Maybe, for a pleasant change, you should turn your brain on and think, oh but then again, your a muslim, it would be hard for you to think out of what your conditioned to be.

He’s not a Muslim

Maybe you should read more post BY Catholics on here and see the intelligent responses they actually do give, but then again, it probably doesnt make any sense to you, cause the answers are intelligent and smart.

fantastic

 

[dolphinlove]

He’s not a Muslim

fantastic

His muslim, look at his answers, its as clear as crystal, if he is lds, then zerinus is catholic!

Yes, the Catholics on here do give fantastic answers!

 

[IvanKaramozov]

Hi Ellen! I’ve been thinking the same thing!

Vickie

Fantastic.

Do you understand that it’s possible to defend a group of people from bigoted propagada and not actually believe the religion?

Here, I defend Muslims, on Wensday I defended Catholicism from some ignorant evangelist preaching in public.

LaMar may defend Islam, that dosen’t make him a Muslim

 

[dolphinlove]

Fantastic.

Do you understand that it’s possible to defend a group of people from bigoted propagada and not actually believe the religion?

Here, I defend Muslims, on Wensday I defended Catholicism from some ignorant evangelist preaching in public.

LaMar may defend Islam, that dosen’t make him a Muslim

Ivan,
If you read some of his post, it reaks of Islam.

 

[IvanKaramozov]

His muslim, look at his answers, its as clear as crystal, if he is lds, then zerinus is catholic!

He denied the existance of an afterlife and I believe a God as well, dosen’t sound very Islamic.

I beleive he said he was culturally LDS moreso than believing.

Yes, the Catholics on here do give fantastic answers!

Some do, like SoCalRC, other spew propaganda and use the same cheep apologetics and parlor trick argument over and over again.

 

[IvanKaramozov]

Ivan,
If you read some of his post, it reaks of Islam.

I have been reading his posts. Given the blatant paranoia on this thread it’s not suprising that he is accused of being a Muslim. I was as well, about a month ago or so.

 

[ibkc]

LaMar obviously isn’t a Muslim. He is, however, a troll, since his main purpose in hanging around here is to wind up the Catholics. And he succeeds much of the time. It’s telling that he stays here instead of going up to the Apologetics section, where he’d get dialog on a higher level and might actually be forced to reconsider his numerous preconceptions about Catholicism and Christianity in general.

If you are Catholic, consider ignoring him or not replying to him unless you have something substantive to say; otherwise, you a) confirm in his mind what he’s already decided we are and 2) egg him on to keep baiting and trolling. I learned that the hard way with him. Unless he indicates that he’s really here to learn instead of to start trouble, he isn’t worth our time.

 

[dolphinlove]

I have been reading his posts. Given the blatant paranoia on this thread it’s not suprising that he is accused of being a Muslim. I was as well, about a month ago or so.

I really think if anyone needs to open their eyes it my be you my dear lad!
We dont use the same old palour tricks etc as you claim, the answers we give pretty much slam dunk any other challenges we get in here.