For police, the goal is vigilance, not vigilantes

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Robert_Sock said:
See post 133.
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It’s a nice sentiment, but antithetical to the standard definition of a “vigilante”. See post # 134.

Is there some standard time limit on when someone would turn “vigilante”?

“If the cops aren’t here in 5 minutes, 27 seconds, I’m gonna start shootin people!!!”

That’s a pretty silly notion. People either have respect for the law, and act accordingly, or not.
 
scipio337 said:
How many legal gun owners “cost innocent lives”?
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One or two is one “two” many; at least the police are insured so if something happens to a loved one they can be compensated for police negligence; but that does not bring a loved one back.

That said in a recently highly publicized case the HOA did settle the wrongful death suit of a captain of a NW program that was endorsed by the HOA.

Thus if NW volunteers are going to carry concealed weapons I suggest they be required to be insured so the HOA can be responsible for their negligence as well.

Same system both ways.
 
MaryT777 said:
One or two is one “two” many; at least the police are insured so if something happens to a loved one they can be compensated for police negligence; but that does not bring a loved one back.

That said in a recently highly publicized case the HOA did settle the wrongful death suit of a captain of a NW program that was endorsed by the HOA.

Thus if NW volunteers are going to carry concealed weapons I suggest they be required to be insured so the HOA can be responsible for their negligence as well.

Same system both ways.
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So the number of crimes stopped by gun owners, and lives saved should be overruled by your vague figure?

I don’t think many advocate neighborhood watch members being armed.
 
MaryT777 said:
As many say why bother having them then if they won’t be there ever if something happens?
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Police do have other duties besides responding to complaints. Like writing traffic tickets, and committing mental patients, and searching for missing persons, and writing police reports, and execute warrants, and on and on and on. Their duty is to the state they serve, not to individuals.
 
Dawnia said:
Police do have other duties besides responding to complaints. Like writing traffic tickets, and committing mental patients, and searching for missing persons, and writing police reports, and execute warrants, and on and on and on. Their duty is to the state they serve, not to individuals.
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I think if we had everyone carry concealed weapons which should be allowed in all states
and then have a volunteer police force we’d have a next to nothing crime rate. It’s been posted crime is less in those states where you can carry a concealed weapon

We don’t need to pay some new police officer 50K TO WRITE traffic tickets etc.
it could be done much cheaper.
Anyone can commit a mental health patient in most states with the proper procedure we don’t need the police doing this.

We have better luck finding missing persons from volunteer agencies.

And so on and so on.
Having the police force dispelled and private citizens running the show is the way to go

The police are too expensive when you count in benefits not to mention the politics etc
it’s not worth the expense.

Mary.
 
scipio337 said:
So the number of crimes stopped by gun owners, and lives saved should be overruled by your vague figure?

I don’t think many advocate neighborhood watch members being armed.
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It’s been posted that crime is less in states where you can carry a CW. IF so why not try a new model? Few I know have any respect for the police. They are an expensive baggage to have around when we could take the law into our own hands if legalized in all states.

Mary.

It’s been posted that no one would be a NW without a weapon. I don’t know.
I have a small neighborhood and the crime rate is low but if citizens can do a better job for the police are never there in time which has been posted why have them?
 
Robert_Sock said:
Vigilante: Someone who punishes perceived lawbreakers themself rather than relying on the authorities
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Excellent definition! A vigilante is one who acts as judge, jury, and jail (or executioner).

Example to discuss: I am a private citizen with no police or military training. I am familiar with my state’s laws on citizen’s arrest, which allow for the use of physical force to restrain someone until the police arrive. I am also familiar with my state’s laws on the justified use of deadly force by citizens, in order to stop an attack likely to cause death or serious injury to me or another innocent person. I have legally and safely carried a concealed firearm various places for years and years. I’ve had permits in two states, and because of reciprocity laws, I have been able to legally carry my firearm in half a dozen different states.

Questions for Robert Sock:
  1. Do you believe I am a vigilante?
  2. If not, do you fear that I may some day ‘turn vigilante’, and open fire on someone for no good reason? If so, why do you have that fear?
 
NeuroTypical said:
Excellent definition! A vigilante is one who acts as judge, jury, and jail (or executioner).

Example to discuss: I am a private citizen with no police or military training. I am familiar with my state’s laws on citizen’s arrest, which allow for the use of physical force to restrain someone until the police arrive. I am also familiar with my state’s laws on the justified use of deadly force by citizens, in order to stop an attack likely to cause death or serious injury to me or another innocent person. I have legally and safely carried a concealed firearm various places for years and years. I’ve had permits in two states, and because of reciprocity laws, I have been able to legally carry my firearm in half a dozen different states.

Questions for Robert Sock:
  1. Do you believe I am a vigilante?
  2. If not, do you fear that I may some day ‘turn vigilante’, and open fire on someone for no good reason? If so, why do you have that fear?
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I think you should be on the new police force run by the public.
 
NeuroTypical said:
Excellent definition! A vigilante is one who acts as judge, jury, and jail (or executioner).

Example to discuss: I am a private citizen with no police or military training. I am familiar with my state’s laws on citizen’s arrest, which allow for the use of physical force to restrain someone until the police arrive. I am also familiar with my state’s laws on the justified use of deadly force by citizens, in order to stop an attack likely to cause death or serious injury to me or another innocent person. I have legally and safely carried a concealed firearm various places for years and years. I’ve had permits in two states, and because of reciprocity laws, I have been able to legally carry my firearm in half a dozen different states.

Questions for Robert Sock:
  1. Do you believe I am a vigilante?
  2. If not, do you fear that I may some day ‘turn vigilante’, and open fire on someone for no good reason? If so, why do you have that fear?
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I do not know you.
 
Robert_Sock said:
I do not know you.
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It’s true - you don’t know me. But neither do you know the hundreds of thousands of Californians who would want a conceal carry permit, and yet you seem willing to judge them as vigilantes when you say stuff like:
Robert_Sock said:
All I’m saying is that society ought not to place concealed weapons in the hands of vigilantes.
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and
Robert_Sock said:
Because allowing people to have a concealed weapon outside of one’s home leads to vigilantism.
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So again, I put to you: I am legally permitted by the state of Colorado to carry a concealed weapon outside of my home, and I have done so, safely and legally, for years. You seem to be against conceal carry laws, and you seem to believe that allowing people to carry leads to vigilantism. So again, do you think I’m a vigilante? If not, do you think I’m at higher risk of becoming one than any non-permit holder?
 
Robert_Sock said:
All I’m saying is that vigilantes will get a permit if allowed to in a given state.
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Sure. But since vigilantism is illegal in all states, what makes you think any vigilantes (or wannabe vigilantes)–already willing to break the law–will be deterred by denying them a CCW?
 
Suudy said:
Sure. But since vigilantism is illegal in all states, what makes you think any vigilantes (or wannabe vigilantes)–already willing to break the law–will be deterred by denying them a CCW?
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CCWs will only exasperate the problem.
 
Robert_Sock said:
But Pope Francis does just fine without a concealed gun permit.

Did Pope Francis need protection while he was a Cardinal? .
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Yes, he did, quite a bit actually. Even to the extent that hundreds of teens gathered around his Cathedral to protect him and it from vile pro-aborts.

And since you do not seem to recognize (as the Church) does, that there is a difference between defense and punishment, it would seem all of those defenders were vigilaties, by your definition

youtube.com/watch?v=mp0oMKGFTyk
 
Robert_Sock said:
But Pope Francis does just fine without a concealed gun permit.

Did Pope Francis need protection while he was a Cardinal? Probably not. How many priests, bishops and cardinals need to a carry concealed weapon? Maybe just a very, very few who are overly worried and paranoid.
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then i guess the Holy Father should get rid of his security ?
 
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