For police, the goal is vigilance, not vigilantes

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maryjk said:
I don’t know anyone that supports vigilantism. And I don’t support it.

The problem comes when you change the definition.

I have a concealed carry permit. I use it. Do you consider me a vigilante?

And about the pope’s message? I try not to read anything INTO it. I read it for what it says. Period.
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:amen:
 
pnewton said:
That would only be an issue in a violent crime. For the sake of the thread, neighborhood watches are about noticing crimes in progress and taking down information, not armed intervention. For the criminal five minutes can seem all too short if he is in commision of a burglary. So all the talk of donuts and stereotypes is relevant to keeping a firearm, but not to neighborhood watch.
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you don’t consider burglary a violent crime ?
 
pnewton said:
Thank you. The Holy Father is not engaged in neighborhood watch. Can we drop this already? Or lock up this thread? Instead of looking up vigilante, I propose everyone look up the word “topic”.
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the op has brought every point being debated.
 
pnewton said:
So all the talk of donuts and stereotypes is relevant to keeping a firearm, but not to neighborhood watch.
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No one mentioned donuts, but you. 🤷

I gave no indication that the police don’t do the job for which they were hired.

I think the police do a wonderful job. I have many friends that are cops.

The problem is that they were not hired to protect me.
 
Robert_Sock said:
It’s the Pope’s message to all Catholics to trust in God instead of security.
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Quote for this “message”?

By the way:
RIO DE JANEIRO (AP) – Brazilian authorities say **7,000 soldiers will join thousands of police **on Rio de Janeiro’s streets to help protect Pope Francis and upward of 1 million people hoping to see the pontiff.
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hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/L/LT_BRAZIL_POPE_SECURITY?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-07-21-12-35-53
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Why are you insulting the Pope?
 
Robert_Sock said:
I do not know you. My main contention is that vigilantes will seek concealed gun permits if they are able to.
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Why?

A person that is going to kill someone is going to get a permit to carry a weapon? That’s like expecting a person in a high speed chase to use their blinkers to change lanes.
 
Robert_Sock said:
Again, my post has to do with the Pope not condoning the use of violence, but to spread the Gospel message to the ‘crazies.’
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If you are going to make up what you want to hear and ignore your own hypocrisies in favor of criticizing others, I’d say there isn’t much to discuss, since you clearly aren’t reading the same Catechism or listening to the same Popes as the rest of us.
 
maryjk said:
No one mentioned donuts, but you. 🤷
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The post you responded to did:

You see how 4-minutes can be eternity? If they are at Dunkin Donut your on your own, Gods hands.

I know you said nothing disrespectful about police. For what it’s worth though, doughnuts are not a delay. The worst problem with delay is laziness. I would say about one officer in ten makes a habit of saying he is busy, or elsewhere, so a call can be shifted to someone else (a delay). Such people are fired when they are found, and I have seen this. However, I have yet to hear of this behavior in conjunction with a crime, violent or not, in progress. That would not be tolerated (here).

But the point remains that since we know there exists a concept such as “response time,” it is easy enough for anyone involved in a neighborhood watch to use this understanding to stay safe. One should simply keep distance and watch, using that distance as a buffer, and never engage the subjects. Since burglars and their ilk do not want to be known or engaged, this is not all that difficult.
 
pnewton said:
But the point remains that since we know there exists a concept such as “response time,” it is easy enough for anyone involved in a neighborhood watch to use this understanding to stay safe. One should simply keep distance and watch, using that distance as a buffer, and never engage the subjects. Since burglars and their ilk do not want to be known or engaged, this is not all that difficult.
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Unless they are like TM and stalk the watcher.
 
Robert_Sock said:
You should not be allowed to carry a concealed weapon outside your house, as is the state law here in CA.
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That’s an odd statement. Why would anyone get a concealed weapon permit to carry the weapon inside their house? :confused:

Also, where did you get the idea that it is illegal for a non-officer to carry a concealed weapon in CA?

oag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs
  1. How can I obtain a Carry Concealed Weapon (CCW) license?
    Contact your county’s Sheriff’s Office or, if you are a resident of an incorporated city, your city’s Police Department, for information on obtaining a CCW license. They can answer your questions and provide you with copies of their CCW policy statement and the State’s Standardized CCW Application. If you live within a jurisdiction of a city Police Department, you may apply to the county Sheriff’s Office for a CCW license. However, only residents of a city may apply to a city’s Police Department for a CCW license.
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  1. May I carry a concealed firearm in California?
    Except in extremely limited circumstances, **you may not carry a concealed firearm on your person in public unless you have a valid CCW license. **CCW permits are issued only by a county sheriff to residents of the county, or by the head of a city police department to residents of that city.
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pnewton said:
The post you responded to did:

You see how 4-minutes can be eternity? If they are at Dunkin Donut your on your own, Gods hands.

I know you said nothing disrespectful about police. For what it’s worth though, doughnuts are not a delay. The worst problem with delay is laziness. I would say about one officer in ten makes a habit of saying he is busy, or elsewhere, so a call can be shifted to someone else (a delay). Such people are fired when they are found, and I have seen this. **However, I have yet to hear of this behavior in conjunction with a crime, violent or not, in progress. That would not be tolerated (here). **
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news.msn.com/us/chicago-police-no-longer-responding-to-all-911-calls

There are several cases that made it to SCOTUS that involved police not responding to calls. One was a 2005 case were a woman had a restraining order out against her ex-husband. She called the police repeatedly to report her three kids missing. She suspected her ex of taking them. They ignored her until the ex showed up at the police station & started shooting. The kids were found in the back of his truck dead. (Castle Rock v Gonzalez)
 
Robert_Sock said:
My point was that it’s much more difficult to get a CCW in CA; ordinary citizens do not have this right.
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Ordinary citizens absolutely do have a right to obtain a CCW. They apply through their local police department. My boss is an “ordinary citizen” and has one. Perhaps, he will be there if you need him.
 
SamH said:
As reflected in California’s low crime rate…

Whoops…
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Yeah…I think the community in the article linked by the OP started a neighborhood watch network because of the high number of unsolved burglaries - darn “vigilantes.”
 
SamH said:
Unless they are like TM and stalk the watcher.
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I am talking about the current topic. I am not going down the Zimmerman road. That was a disaster for all concerned. I am sure any reasonable person can see how that case does not apply to neighborhood watch, where one watches from a distance. Yes, when one is in a vehicle they need to be vigilant about someone approaching, but no more so than if they are at a supermarket parking lot.
 
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