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Kitty_Chan
Guest
Also, your sig line I wonder about them often, if they worry about such things. I wonder if they make time while in a darkened basement sharing one bible to argue.
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ralphinal
Guest
I am not sure it is fair to judge the entire Church on the “local teaching.” That is a major heresy being taught, and I would bet that either the priest doesn’t know it or is afraid to say anything about it. If it was my parrish, I would raise all kinds of you know what about it until it was fixed.
The Church is supposed to be unified on these matters. The fact that it is not shows the flaw of allowing people into the church.
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benedicter
Guest
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Alexius
Guest
I am familiar with such individuals 
The individuals of the Church can teaching heresy, but the Church does not…
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jmcrae
Guest
As a former Protestant, I know exactly what you are going through. I didn’t “leave” Protestantism, so much as I became convinced of the claims of the Catholic Church, and realized I needed to convert.Yet, on the other hand, most of the people on here who are Episcopalian, Lutheran, Methodist, or Presbyterian know fully well that our respective groups are battling to stay within the realm…of historic orthodox beliefs(yes I know that Catholics do not think we are but WE think we are obviously)
So, to make a long question longer, does this discourage you like it does me?
Prior to that happening, even the major problems in my denomination, though frustrating, weren’t enough to cause me to leave. I still thought that the Holy Spirit was guiding my church.
Afterwards, it wouldn’t have made any difference even if my Protestant church had been perfect in every way. It might have given me pause, but it wouldn’t have stopped me from becoming Catholic.
However, once I became convinced of the claims of the Catholic Church, I had many fewer regrets about leaving, because of (in our case) this monsoon of heterodox teaching that has flooded into my former denomination. Even my own father wouldn’t recognize the place; never mind the founders of generations back. (He was excommunicated for being the “guilty party” of a divorce in 1975; he hasn’t been to Church since. Nowadays I think everybody in that whole place is either divorced or homosexual, and I doubt they make any distinctions about “guilt” with regard to divorce any more, either. But that’s nothing; here’s an ad for a course they’re running this coming January -
I think I got out of there just in time.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
There is some misunderstanding of your post. You state, “I don’t see the actual Catholic Church immue from the winds of heresy…”
Feel free to correct me as I give my analysis.
The Catholic Church has not officially taught any heretical doctrines. You can’t find any Church document that is heretical. I believe the Church is preserve by the Holy Spirit from teaching errors.
However, there are members of the Catholic who may misguided and taught heresy, which is contrary to the Magisterium. Your RCIA teacher is in fact wrong in his theology or thinking. I find it **shameful that he was given the task to teach new members ** of the Church doctrines not in uniform with the Rome.
There were also sisters from the religious execommunicated a month ago when they taught heretical doctrine concerning Mary. The Vatican of course execommunicated them and condemned the heresy.
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mark_a
Guest
So y’all aren’t Catholic because of Papal infallibility, Marian dogmas, confession, or whatever?
Tell the truth.
Its the Catholic Church’s stand on artificial contraception.
Because if you followed this one Catholic teaching, you could remain Protestant and be more Catholic than 98% of us Catholics.
Tell the truth.
Its the Catholic Church’s stand on artificial contraception.
Because if you followed this one Catholic teaching, you could remain Protestant and be more Catholic than 98% of us Catholics.
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jmcrae
Guest
The difference is that, in the Catholic Church, you can report this guy to the Bishop, and they will cancel the RCIA at that parish. (Did you do this? Or did you simply use this guy as your excuse not to follow the promptings of the Holy Spirit? Sorry, God, Your Church is a dump, and it’s full of idiots; I’m going to this prettier one out here on the Road to Perdition.
)
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Kitty_Chan
Guest
So if this is reading correct, then we are not to judge the Catholic church by what some of its local member churches teach.
So then why is there judgement on OSAS, wine, sacraments, scripture, baptism, etc etc. Honestly some of these things are local, especially the arguing that comes out of the bible belt.
So then why is there judgement on OSAS, wine, sacraments, scripture, baptism, etc etc. Honestly some of these things are local, especially the arguing that comes out of the bible belt.
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Truthstalker
Guest
I reported this to the priest, who did nothing, and then to the diocese, which did nothing. This guy, hired by the priest, is still teaching.The difference is that, in the Catholic Church, you can report this guy to the Bishop, and they will cancel the RCIA at that parish. (Did you do this? Or did you simply use this guy as your excuse not to follow the promptings of the Holy Spirit? Sorry, God, Your Church is a dump, and it’s full of idiots; I’m going to this prettier one out here on the Road to Perdition.
Nice accusation.
We have our own fair crop of idiots over here, too, as is often pointed out.What good is it to have a church that claims to teach infallible truth, but never seems to bother teaching it, seemingly full of errant bishops and teachers who lead the flock astray and cannot be trusted, that demands it be trusted and then acts in a very untrustworthy manner? Some Catholics say if you don’t like a parish, vote with your feet, which is a very Protestant approach. Because of the poor teaching of the Catholic Church, many Catholics are Protestant.
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Steadfast
Guest
Kitty,So if this is reading correct, then we are not to judge the Catholic church by what some of its local member churches teach.
So then why is there judgement on OSAS, wine, sacraments, scripture, baptism, etc etc. Honestly some of these things are local, especially the arguing that comes out of the bible belt.
To be fair, the whole OSAS, Walk the Aisle and Make a Decision for Jesus and Get your Fire Insurance idea is pretty prevalent throughout whole denominations of American Evangelicalism.
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Truthstalker
Guest
Circular argument: The Church teaches that it has not taught error, because it teaches that it cannot err, therefore it is right, so it is right in that it does not teach error. To me this smacks of wilful refusal to actually look at what is being taught - as opposed to what is claimed as being taught.
Slippery argument: “officially taught”: if I bring anything forward, you will say it is not a Church document, because it is heretical, therefore not official.
I actually like the Catholic Church. I like the Mass. I like Latin and reading the ECFs. But it grieves me when heresy is taught and defended, or at least ignored. Truth matters. It should matter a lot to the Church.
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Truthstalker
Guest
You use derisive language like that about these issues and claim to be fair? Hmmm.
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Kitty_Chan
Guest
and besides that may be ducky for America but last I looked Im not in a state yet.
Ive never heard of some of this stuff until I came to this site, so that would mean its a touch local.
What I said still stands, thanks truthstalker btw.
wanted to add
the thing I really like about the bible, about scripture, about that story of how we all came to be, is its all there, no exceptions, warts and all, no soft soap, no make it look good, it just is what it is.
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cascherman
Guest
uhhh, Luther is dead.
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benedicter
Guest
QUOTE=Kitty Chan;3018842
the thing I really like about the bible, about scripture, about that story of how we all came to be, is its all there, no exceptions, warts and all, no soft soap, no make it look good, it just is what it is.
The New Testament was given to all Christians by the Catholic Church. If you trust the Bible given to you by the Catholic Church why do Christians find it so difficult to trust the Church to preserve the faith. The New Testament witness to authority is stronger with the Apostles (following onto the Apostolic Tradition also recommended by St Paul) from Christ than is the witness of the scriptures to itself 2 Timothy 3:16. “Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction and instruction.” Profitable? Bible Christians (sola scripture) place it in an infallible position. Anyway the scriptures mentioned in the New Testament didn’t allude to ‘the Bible’ as it didn’t exist per se (the Jewish Canon was set in 100AD) and the New Testament was still in formation. Of course scripture was used and revered - Christ would have been familiar with the Septuagint which is are the Jewish books which constitute the Hebrew Scriptures of the ‘Catholic Bible’.
the thing I really like about the bible, about scripture, about that story of how we all came to be, is its all there, no exceptions, warts and all, no soft soap, no make it look good, it just is what it is.
The New Testament was given to all Christians by the Catholic Church. If you trust the Bible given to you by the Catholic Church why do Christians find it so difficult to trust the Church to preserve the faith. The New Testament witness to authority is stronger with the Apostles (following onto the Apostolic Tradition also recommended by St Paul) from Christ than is the witness of the scriptures to itself 2 Timothy 3:16. “Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction and instruction.” Profitable? Bible Christians (sola scripture) place it in an infallible position. Anyway the scriptures mentioned in the New Testament didn’t allude to ‘the Bible’ as it didn’t exist per se (the Jewish Canon was set in 100AD) and the New Testament was still in formation. Of course scripture was used and revered - Christ would have been familiar with the Septuagint which is are the Jewish books which constitute the Hebrew Scriptures of the ‘Catholic Bible’.
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MarcoPolo
Guest
If I may jump in…I believe ecumenism is the effort for unity…not the effort for accepting any doctrine for the sake of unity.
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Kitty_Chan
Guest
benedicter
Then it should have the same qualities of that it promoted, and show itself warts and all.
Im not sola anything btw, I want to know what everyone has to say about pretty much everything, what do you think I stuck around here for??
Then it should have the same qualities of that it promoted, and show itself warts and all.
Im not sola anything btw, I want to know what everyone has to say about pretty much everything, what do you think I stuck around here for??
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Maui71
Guest
Hi BrianH,
I wanted to tell you that your OP is one of the most heartfelt and genuine posts I have read on this site. I commend you for your openness and sincerity.
Though, when I left the church, I never turned to Protestantism. When I left, I left, I went to the whole new age, mystical, esoteric, Crowley, enochian and Israel Regaldie fly manure. Now, as you can see I was down in the basement and had the doors shut and locked to salvation. What pulled me out? Who grab my hand and pointed me to Christ?
The Virgin Mother did.
It happened at Conyers Georgia. Now, at that time right before my return to the church, I couldn’t stand the concept of the Virgin Mother or Catholicism for that matter. Even after I came back and knowing that it was she who pulled me out from the basement and said to go see my Son, I rejected her. Talk about flinging poop on your rescuer (I know there is no one that stands between you and Jesus and between Jesus and God) but she led me to Christ. It is a long story and really I don’t want reveal it on the internet.
So how did I get over this “issue”? It wasn’t till I started praying about in stead of ignoring it that it started to click and with the help of some videos and books. It clicked and I saw (even though I experienced it first hand, in my face, with witnesses to the fact) how the Virgin Mother fit in.
To me it was like “Duh” “Hello MAUI, she led you out of hell, dropped you off at Christ’s feet and you still couldn’t get it?”……. I am glad I finally did. It was 10 years later.
I pray for you.
Good luck.
I wanted to tell you that your OP is one of the most heartfelt and genuine posts I have read on this site. I commend you for your openness and sincerity.
Though, when I left the church, I never turned to Protestantism. When I left, I left, I went to the whole new age, mystical, esoteric, Crowley, enochian and Israel Regaldie fly manure. Now, as you can see I was down in the basement and had the doors shut and locked to salvation. What pulled me out? Who grab my hand and pointed me to Christ?
The Virgin Mother did.
It happened at Conyers Georgia. Now, at that time right before my return to the church, I couldn’t stand the concept of the Virgin Mother or Catholicism for that matter. Even after I came back and knowing that it was she who pulled me out from the basement and said to go see my Son, I rejected her. Talk about flinging poop on your rescuer (I know there is no one that stands between you and Jesus and between Jesus and God) but she led me to Christ. It is a long story and really I don’t want reveal it on the internet.
So how did I get over this “issue”? It wasn’t till I started praying about in stead of ignoring it that it started to click and with the help of some videos and books. It clicked and I saw (even though I experienced it first hand, in my face, with witnesses to the fact) how the Virgin Mother fit in.
To me it was like “Duh” “Hello MAUI, she led you out of hell, dropped you off at Christ’s feet and you still couldn’t get it?”……. I am glad I finally did. It was 10 years later.
I pray for you.
Good luck.
F
Frost
Guest
I find hope in Jesus’ own words:Yet, on the other hand, most of the people on here who are Episcopalian, Lutheran, Methodist, or Presbyterian know fully well that our respective groups are battling to stay within the realm…of historic orthodox beliefs(yes I know that Catholics do not think we are but WE think we are obviously
So, to make a long question longer, does this discourage you like it does me?
You are not converting to Catholicism or Orthodoxy, but you are frustrated with the slow winds, and in some cases they are a monsoon, blowing our churches away from orthodoxy.
How do you handle it? I am not handling it well lately.
Thanks. I am not really interested in debate. I have read all of the debates a hundred times but in the thoughts of people who MIGHT find themselves in this situation.
BH
Matthew 7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
Matthew 7:21-23 21 "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Also, in the OT, God’s people did many evil things and turned away from God. Yet the godfearing did not break away from God’s people to form their own chosen people, instead they tried to live by God’s will and convince others to do the same. The prophets didn’t turn their back on the people, they faced them with God’s word.
Although my church has become increasingly un-Orthodox, I cannot give her up. I have a responsibilty towards those who has gone astray.
The weed and the wheat will grow together side by side until Jesus comes to harvest.
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