For those who believe homosexuals can change their orientation....

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I always found the term SSA to be annoying and silly. Annoying because all it does is create confusion, especially in debates like this where people try to claim to be ex-gay, which would involve turning straight, when in all that they are doing is just being celibate. Turning straight is a pretty big deal. Being celibate, eh, not so much, because we all know it can be done.

Homosexual is an orientation. There are many people with it, and people have variety, so homosexuals come in all shapes and sizes and walks of life. Trying to use the term SSA is just going by stereotypes. You don’t have to be a fairy princess (or a lumberjack if you’re female) to be homosexual. homosexuals can be football players as well as hair dressers. Homosexual is not a lifestyle, it is an orientation and you can do whatever you choose to deal with it.

It’s similar to heterosexuality. Hetereosexuals don’t get a stupid acronym when they go celibate. And there is no difference between a celibate heterosexual and a celibate homosexual.

And I suspect the reason you don’t find many people who identify as gay, and are celibate is because people usually don’t go celibate, regardless of orientation. That’s just the society we live in.
 
I always found the term SSA to be annoying and silly. Annoying because all it does is create confusion, especially in debates like this where people try to claim to be ex-gay, which would involve turning straight, when in all that they are doing is just being celibate. Turning straight is a pretty big deal. Being celibate, eh, not so much, because we all know it can be done.

Homosexual is an orientation. There are many people with it, and people have variety, so homosexuals come in all shapes and sizes and walks of life. Trying to use the term SSA is just going by stereotypes. You don’t have to be a fairy princess (or a lumberjack if you’re female) to be homosexual. homosexuals can be football players as well as hair dressers. Homosexual is not a lifestyle, it is an orientation and you can do whatever you choose to deal with it.

It’s similar to heterosexuality. Hetereosexuals don’t get a stupid acronym when they go celibate. And there is no difference between a celibate heterosexual and a celibate homosexual.

And I suspect the reason you don’t find many people who identify as gay, and are celibate is because people usually don’t go celibate, regardless of orientation. That’s just the society we live in.
I think it is widely known that homosexuality does not imply a particular exterior appearance. People generally use the term SSA to make it clear that they do not belong to the stereotype that says that all homosexuals are (or want to be) sexually active.
 
From the Episcopal Commission for Doctrine of the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops’ “Pastoral Ministry to Young People withSame-Sex Attraction” (June 2011)
In this document the expression “person with same-sex attraction” refers to one who feels an erotic and emotional attraction, which is predominant and not merely episodic, towards persons of the same sex, whether with or without sexual relations. The terms “gay” and “lesbian” are not used to define people in the Church’s official teachings and documents. Although these words are common terms in current speech, and many people use them to describe themselves, they do not describe persons with the fullness and richness that the Church recognizes and respects in every man or woman. Instead, “gay” and “lesbian” are often cultural definitions for people and movements that have accepted homosexual acts and behaviours as morally good.
 
parenthood is not proof of typical sexuality.
No one said that. You’re stretching, and trying to get this thread off-topic.
I know at least one married father of children who decided after 20 years that he needed to be in a dress and be addressed as “she” in order to happily continue his high school teaching job. He is undergoing hormone therapy and at last report hoped to have the outward indications of his gender surgically altered.
That has nothing to do with homosexuality. Speaking of naivete, in your post you conflated three separate things: homosexuality, transvestitism, and transgenderism. Sometimes these last two are related, but not always.
Yes, a lot of the people posting here are heterosexuals. I fail to see how it is that they have no stake in deciding the terminology describing homosexuality. It is not as if homosexuals can expect to have the floor to themselves when the subject is homosexuality,
My gosh. Any other straw men you’d like to construct? I never said that. I said, and I repeat, people who have never experienced SSA are not the experts on the experience of it, the struggle against it, and the terminology of it The people who have it, and/or have experimented with homosexual activity, are the ones with valid and credible testimony, not the ones without it. The point is that there’s often a vigorous attempt to silence, censor, or edit comments by people with SSA, by those without it, whenever the subject comes up on multiple message boards.
 
Yes, a lot of the people posting here are heterosexuals. I fail to see how it is that they have no stake in deciding the terminology describing homosexuality.
a lot of people posting here are white. i fail to see how it is that they have no stake in deciding the terminology describing blacks.

a lot of people posting here are americans. i fail to see how it is that they have no stake in deciding the terminology describing lithuanians.

a lot of people posting here are accountants. i fail to see how it is that they have no stake in deciding the terminology describing pilots.

see how silly that sounds?
 
I want to parse this out with even more clarity from my posts above.
person with same-sex attraction” refers to one who feels an erotic and emotional attraction, which is predominant and not merely episodic, towards persons of the same sex, whether with or without sexual relations.
That is both a definition and an exclusion.

According to this document, if someone says that they are SSA, then we know what they mean. It does not include the “passing fancy”, “drunk encounter”, or “youthful experimentation” scenario.

Then, the document continues to explain why we don’t use “gay” or “lesbian”.
The terms “gay” and “lesbian” are not used to define people in the Church’s official teachings and documents. Although these words are common terms in current speech, and many people use them to describe themselves, they do not describe persons with the fullness and richness that the Church recognizes and respects in every man or woman. Instead, “gay” and “lesbian” are often cultural definitions for people and movements that have accepted homosexual acts and behaviours as morally good.
So, a person who was gay or lesbian but then came into the fullness of the Catholic Church would no longer self-identify as gay or lesbian. He or she might not self-identify as “straight” either, for a number of reasons (which can be addressed in a separate post if need be). Therefore, this person would identify as a person with SSA. But what if, through the Grace of God, this person did not actually experience SSA anymore. Is this person now “straight” just because he or she is no longer experiencing the temptation of SSA? Would you consider that dishonest or disingenuous?

Please tell me what word or phrase this person should use in these discussions?
 
I think it is widely known that homosexuality does not imply a particular exterior appearance. People generally use the term SSA to make it clear that they do not belong to the stereotype that says that all homosexuals are (or want to be) sexually active.
That doesn’t change the fact that it’s still a mindset that only thinks of stereotypes.
 
I don’t believe homosexuals can generally change their orientation. An alcoholic can stop drinking; he can’t stop wanting to.

Just wanted to get that out there, lest some outsider pops along and thinks Catholicism officially teaches that homosexuality is a choice or something.
Alcoholics have the desire to drink removed by God all the time. I have loved ones in AA who don’t drink and say God removed the craving. Just wanted to clear that up.
 
I wish God would remove these feelings, life would be so much easier. I’ve never fantasized about sex with another guy, indeed I find the concept repugnant, but I’m still attracted to a guy in my college class. Part of me wants to tell him that I love him just so he stays away from me, but then I’d feel like I’ve betrayed his trust. So much stress.
 
I wish God would remove these feelings, life would be so much easier.
I’m not triviliazing this, but know that whatever agonies we experience (mine are different from yours), these are potential avenues of sanctity for us. An “easy” (or easier) life is not what sanctifies us.
 
I’m not triviliazing this, but know that whatever agonies we experience (mine are different from yours), these are potential avenues of sanctity for us. An “easy” (or easier) life is not what sanctifies us.
It causes so much heartache and anguish, some nights I sob myself to sleep. The night being oh so dark does not help the feeling of isolation.
 
Don’t despair, Dakota. From your comments I am guessing that you are 20 something. All these things do become easier with age. There is no denying the fact that we live in a hypersexualized society which puts extreme emphasis on sex and romance, and this just makes life that much harder for young people. You are certainly not alone.
 
Don’t despair, Dakota. From your comments I am guessing that you are 20 something. All these things do become easier with age. There is no denying the fact that we live in a hypersexualized society which puts extreme emphasis on sex and romance, and this just makes life that much harder for young people. You are certainly not alone.
I’m actually 18. The odd thing is I’ve never wanted to engage in sex with someone. What society really needs is friendship with permanance, practically kin.
 
Dakota,

I think you are a nice guy and a very normal one too and that is what you should believe.

The fact that you are being attracted to a guy in your college class, it’s not a homosexual thing. Instead, it’s a desire of true frienship. The very concept of homosexuality takes away true friendship among men. You can’t find a true frienship-- the one you long for-- from a homosexual relationship, because homosexual relationship is always about sex. Sex is not what you desire as you constantly wrote in your many posts.

All humans are social beings. We begin our lives by knowing our parents, then later we learn to make friends. By the time we try to be independent from our parents, we hope we can rely on frienship apart from parents. Man will look for male friendship, and woman will look for female friendship to discuss life issues and strategizing and going through life apart from parents.

You are still very young. You may still at the above stage.

Human being then will reach maturity when he has become confident about himself, he will then enter the next stage of his life when he begin into making a family of his own.

Within the two stages, is man’s search for himself: this include things like what’s important and what’s not for him, how he want other’s to perceive him, how he perceive himself, what love (and sex) is, what is the purpose of life, what’s the meaning of relationships, etc. These questions may not come out as a logical thinking, rather a sequence of processes one must go through.

Your case, I do not know much about you, but from what you constantly wrote, I suppose you have never fallen in love with a girl yet, and this is normal because you are still very young. Instead you feel intense feeling of attraction towards guys. These facts shows that you are still at the stage of socializing (learning about friendship building).

Unfortunately, our modern society nowadays being loud about homosexuality-- a concept of sexuality that ignores human dignity, disregard human body and has no respect of the purpose of sex in itself-- so that young people like you-- who has never experienced any falling in love with the opposite sex yet-- these young people wrongly perceive themselves as homosexual, thus open themselves into a harmful concept of sexuality.

The truth is, human being usually fall in love with the opposite sex only once of twice in his life time.

Your search for true frienship is a part of a process of finding yourself and the meaning of good relationship. Friendship will teach a man about many things, it’s a part of finding himself eventually.

Be patient Dakota.

May God bless you.
 
I’m actually 18. The odd thing is I’ve never wanted to engage in sex with someone. What society really needs is friendship with permanance, practically kin.
First, my compliments. For 18 you are well read and exceptionally articulate in debate. Sadly, our society does not put much value upon friendship. This seems to be a fairly modern change, within the last 100 years or so. The sexual revolution also damaged the normal development of friendships because by becoming sexually active at ever younger ages teenagers began to pursue (generally heterosexual) sex rather than friends. The result is a confusion between emotional depth and sex. I incline to the view that many people are really seeking stable and emotionally satisfying relationships of a nonsexual kind, but our contemporary society does not encourage this. Instead people go from one quick romantic fix to another, whether heterosexual or homosexual. The whole of popular culture exists to uphold this practice, unfortunately.
 
Dakota,

I think you are a nice guy and a very normal one too and that is what you should believe.

The fact that you are being attracted to a guy in your college class, it’s not a homosexual thing. Instead, it’s a desire of true frienship. The very concept of homosexuality takes away true friendship among men. You can’t find a true frienship-- the one you long for-- from a homosexual relationship, because homosexual relationship is always about sex. Sex is not what you desire as you constantly wrote in your many posts.

All humans are social beings. We begin our lives by knowing our parents, then later we learn to make friends. By the time we try to be independent from our parents, we hope we can rely on frienship apart from parents. Man will look for male friendship, and woman will look for female friendship to discuss life issues and strategizing and going through life apart from parents.

You are still very young. You may still at the above stage.

Human being then will reach maturity when he has become confident about himself, he will then enter the next stage of his life when he begin into making a family of his own.

Within the two stages, is man’s search for himself: this include things like what’s important and what’s not for him, how he want other’s to perceive him, how he perceive himself, what love (and sex) is, what is the purpose of life, what’s the meaning of relationships, etc. These questions may not come out as a logical thinking, rather a sequence of processes one must go through.

Your case, I do not know much about you, but from what you constantly wrote, I suppose you have never fallen in love with a girl yet, and this is normal because you are still very young. Instead you feel intense feeling of attraction towards guys. These facts shows that you are still at the stage of socializing (learning about friendship building).

Unfortunately, our modern society nowadays being loud about homosexuality-- a concept of sexuality that ignores human dignity, disregard human body and has no respect of the purpose of sex in itself-- so that young people like you-- who has never experienced any falling in love with the opposite sex yet-- these young people wrongly perceive themselves as homosexual, thus open themselves into a harmful concept of sexuality.

The truth is, human being usually fall in love with the opposite sex only once of twice in his life time.

Your search for true frienship is a part of a process of finding yourself and the meaning of good relationship. Friendship will teach a man about many things, it’s a part of finding himself eventually.

Be patient Dakota.

May God bless you.
Romantic friendship is an altogether better phrase to describe it than homosexual relationship.

Is a desire for physical intimacy really part of “true friendship”?

I’m no trying to become more independent from my parents, I’m trying to be a dutiful son.

I think you are making a mistake in waving off all homosexual relationships as about sex, I’ve seen plenty of cases where the people seem truly in love with each other. I think if we can provide a model where two people of the same sex can love each other chastely.

I am a very confident person regardless of whether I’m delivering a speech to 500 people or am 100 feet up on a rock face.

I have plenty of male friends and female friends, but this feels totally different. I feel no attraction to females at all, indeed some of my friends suspected I was gay because I didn’t seem to notice that girls were hitting on me. Also once a girl came up to me in the cafeteria and kissed me on the lips and I felt traumatized and violated…

First, my compliments. For 18 you are well read and exceptionally articulate in debate. Sadly, our society does not put much value upon friendship. This seems to be a fairly modern change, within the last 100 years or so. The sexual revolution also damaged the normal development of friendships because by becoming sexually active at ever younger ages teenagers began to pursue (generally heterosexual) sex rather than friends. The result is a confusion between emotional depth and sex. I incline to the view that many people are really seeking stable and emotionally satisfying relationships of a nonsexual kind, but our contemporary society does not encourage this. Instead people go from one quick romantic fix to another, whether heterosexual or homosexual. The whole of popular culture exists to uphold this practice, unfortunately.
Well read yes, articulate no, succinct perhaps.

Society places so little value on friendship that it is easily discarded, like a used condom. This is one of the reasons I immerse myself in the Middle Ages. I must warn you that if you are to dwell much on Mediaeval society one must toss out the modern lenses or all one will see is fruit…

In Mediaeval English literature extremely strong bonds, blood brothers if you will, are a recurring feature, A Knight’s Tale by Chaucer, or Adam Bell and Clim of the Clough and Bewick and Graham in the Child Ballads. Heck, you can find it in real life monuments especially funerary ones such as Sir William Neville and Sir John Clanvowe (friends of Chaucer)

For John Bloxham and John Whytton here’s a sketch of the monument (notice how it is almost the same as one for a husband and wife)
gothiceye.com/images/large/CL016-2.jpg

And of course for a far more modern case we have Blessed Newman and Fr. Ambrose St. John (weren’t sexual involved obviously).

Although I really do wonder about affrèrement, very peculiar thing.
 
Romantic friendship is an altogether better phrase to describe it than homosexual relationship.

Is a desire for physical intimacy really part of “true friendship”?
No.
I think you are making a mistake in waving off all homosexual relationships as about sex, I’ve seen plenty of cases where the people seem truly in love with each other. I think if we can provide a model where two people of the same sex can love each other chastely.
Young people may think this way for they are in the beginning stage of it. Just wait for a few more years. As you will find out there is no real purpose in such a relationship.
I have plenty of male friends and female friends, but this feels totally different. I feel no attraction to females at all, indeed some of my friends suspected I was gay because I didn’t seem to notice that girls were hitting on me. Also once a girl came up to me in the cafeteria and kissed me on the lips and I felt traumatized and violated…
I remember as a young girl I hated boys. I thought boys were naughty and rough and stupid. I prefered to befriend grils who were polite and “good”. That changed later.
 
No.

Young people may think this way for they are in the beginning stage of it. Just wait for a few more years. As you will find out there is no real purpose in such a relationship.

I remember as a young girl I hated boys. I thought boys were naughty and rough and stupid. I prefered to befriend girls who were polite and “good”. That changed later.
Which is why I highly doubt that it’s just wanting friendship (even though I wish it were).

There are plenty of childless heterosexual couples who have been together many years, decades even.

I never went through a girls have cooties stage, in fact for a number of years my best friend was a girl.

Also, when that happened was in 10th grade
 
Well, it happens that people fulfill their own prediction/ suspicion.

You hold yourself suspect. And because of it, you may walk to “that” direction.

For example: your comment in your previous post (I bolded) below:
I have plenty of male friends and female friends, but this feels totally different. I feel no attraction to females at all, indeed some of my friends suspected I was gay because I didn’t seem to notice that girls were hitting on me.
You are perceiving yourself as being perceived by others as “a homosexual suspect”, and you are agreeing with them. The prove that they have is that you have not notice the opposite sex yet. This is not a prove (as I have said in my posts) because you are still too young to say “well I have never interested with any women yet” so yeah my friends may be right “I am a homosexual” Let’s see how I feel about those guys… hmmm… then you follow your friends suspiscion into fulfilling itself.
Also once a girl came up to me in the cafeteria and kissed me on the lips and I felt traumatized and violated…
I honestly think that your feeling of being traumatized and violated is normal. If a male stranger (or even a male friend) come to me and suddenly kiss me in the lips, I will feel the same way. Such is not a prove that I am a homosexual.

The above shows, how you without really knowing what love and sex really is, you try to prove a concept of “sexual orientation”. You noted the fact when you felt violated by girls as a fact that you do not like girls.

In my time, when there was no “homosexual” word in young people’s ear, we grew up according to our own time. Some young people were earlier than the others regarding attraction, while some didn’t even notice the opposite sex until they fell in love much later in life. Nobody said “you are gay” just because a boy or a girl did not really care about those things.
 
Well, it happens that people fulfill their own prediction/ suspicion.

You hold yourself suspect. And because of it, you may walk to “that” direction.

For example: your comment in your previous post (I bolded) below:

You are perceiving yourself as being perceived by others as “a homosexual suspect”, and you are agreeing with them. The prove that they have is that you have not notice the opposite sex yet. This is not a prove (as I have said in my posts) because you are still too young to say “well I have never interested with any women yet” so yeah my friends may be right “I am a homosexual” Let’s see how I feel about those guys… hmmm… then you follow your friends suspiscion into fulfilling itself.

I honestly think that your feeling of being traumatized and violated is normal. If a male stranger (or even a male friend) come to me and suddenly kiss me in the lips, I will feel the same way. Such is not a prove that I am a homosexual.

The above shows, how you without really knowing what love and sex really is, you try to prove a concept of “sexual orientation”. You noted the fact when you felt violated by girls as a fact that you do not like girls.

In my time, when there was no “homosexual” word in young people’s ear, we grew up according to our own time. Some young people were earlier than the others regarding attraction, while some didn’t even notice the opposite sex until they fell in love much later in life. Nobody said “you are gay” just because a boy or a girl did not really care about those things.
My friends didn’t tell me until after I came out so it is not in fact a self fulfilling prophecy.

It’s not that I don’t like girls, they are fine to hang out with, but the concept of actually kissing one makes me feel a little bit sick.

No one said I was gay except me.
 
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