For those who claim to know God

[inJESUS]

I have already explained that they need to be acknowledged as such by God Almighty Himself and no one else.

ok let us pretend the Bible doesn’t use the same word while speaking of angels, can you stop using the Bible and use your own scriptures to show us the ten thousandSSS of saints with Muhammad and not as Tabari says, 12 thousand? provide us with the number, and the exemplary lives these warriors lead to be called saints… i asked for a proof many times already so bring your proof if ye are truthful

 

[algebra]

saints? ten thousand warrior saints, who marched into medina?
Or does saints refer to muslims in general?

 

[Eucharisted]

You still need to address the question of why these “righteous souls” would be descending on “mount Paran” instead of Jerusalem on Judgment Day and why they need to be given a “fiery law” on that Day.

And if I do, you’ll question my answer and say I’m wrong - even though you wouldn’t really know what the verse is about, since you’re not a Bible expert.

I think it’s hilarious that you’re fretting over the Bible, when you Muslims claim it’s been corrupted by men.

 

[inJESUS]

I think it’s hilarious that you’re fretting over the Bible, when you Muslims claim it’s been corrupted by men.

that’s what i don’t understand. They are eager to find their prophet in a corrupt book…i personally see it as an insult to Muhammad by either his followers, or by Allah himself who said he is found in the Bible yet men corrupted it. And if Muslims say Allah did not allow the corruption of the passages related to Muhammad, i can’t help but asking what was Allah doing when they were corrupting other prophets’ messages…or is it always a win-win case with Muhammad?

 

[hamba2han]

On the whole, I would say that Muslims have more faith in the truth of the Bible than do most Christians… and this thread has shown that this is indeed the case on these message boards.

Does anyone else see the irony here i.e. that Muslims need to prove to Christians that the Bible is true? :bigyikes:

 

[ralphinal]

On the whole, I would say that Muslims have more faith in the truth of the Bible than do most Christians… and this thread has shown that this is indeed the case on these message boards.

Does anyone else see the irony here i.e. that Muslims need to prove to Christians that the Bible is true? :bigyikes:

No, the Ironic part is that someone would insult us by claiming that the Bible is corrupt, then try to use it to prove their point, all the while claiming to know the Bible better when it is clear that they have NEVER READ THE THING.

Hamba, for the first time, I think that you have tried to insult my intellegence.

 

[hamba2han]

A reminder to all that it is NOT Muslims who are saying that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) plagiarised Jewish and Christian scriptures when producing the Qur’an.

And so, when Muslims examine and analyse what is written in the Bible in order to defend their faith against these kind of accusations, Christians and Jews should not object and say that this is being disrespectful to their own faiths.

 

[inJESUS]

Have you found your Islamic proof yet?

 

[ralphinal]

A reminder to all that it is NOT Muslims who are saying that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) plagiarised Jewish and Christian scriptures when producing the Qur’an.

And so, when Muslims examine and analyse what is written in the Bible in order to defend their faith against these kind of accusations, Christians and Jews should not object and say that this is being disrespectful to their own faiths.

If you are using my book to support yours, you must accept my book as valid.

 

[TomaszA]

Peace Hamba2han

And so, when Muslims examine and analyse what is written in the Bible in order to defend their faith against these kind of accusations, Christians and Jews should not object and say that this is being disrespectful to their own faiths.

I don’t find it disrespectful, just not very reasonable.

 

[hamba2han]

have you found a source of ten thousandSSS of saints? because the last source i saw, Al-Tabari said 12 thousand

Try reading this article which I had posted the link to in a previous post.

Not that I think it would convince you but you can read it just the same.

 

[inJESUS]

Try reading this article which I had posted the link to in a previous post.

Not that I think it would convince you but you can read it just the same.

i don’t know if Armstrong is more knowlegeable that Tabari who stated they were 12 thousand, but still she writes:

The shout was taken up by his
10,000 soldiers .

I made it clear that i need a reference about ten thousandSSS. You surely know the difference.

 

[hamba2han]

If you are using my book to support yours, you must accept my book as valid.

Your book has the following verses within it:

`How can you say, “We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,” when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?’ … (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)

Deuteronomy 31:25-29
25 he gave this command to the Levites who carried the ark of the covenant of the LORD :
26 "Take this Book of the Law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God. There it will remain as a witness against you.
27 For I know how rebellious and stiff-necked you are. If you have been rebellious against the LORD while I am still alive and with you, how much more will you rebel after I die! 28 Assemble before me all the elders of your tribes and all your officials, so that I can speak these words in their hearing and call heaven and earth to testify against them.
29 For I know that after my death you are sure to become utterly corrupt and to turn from the way I have commanded you. In days to come, disaster will fall upon you because you will do evil in the sight of the LORD and provoke him to anger by what your hands have made."

The Book of Moses predicted that the Law (Bible) will get corrupted. The Book of Jeremiah which came approximately 826 years after did indeed confirm this corruption.

Do Christians accept the validity of the above verses in their Bible?

Muslims do not have a problem accepting these verses as being true.

 

[ralphinal]

Your book has the following verses within it:

How can you say, “We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,” when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?’ … (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)

The Translation that you use shows something that is not implied by the passage when taken in context. The passage relates to forcing Isreal to the correct faith by taking their land from them. Another translation does not say that the pen did anything, but that scribes handled it wrong. In other words, they ignored it or did not teach it. That passage, when taken with all of Jeremiah, refers to those who adapt idolatry instead of Judaism

Deuteronomy 31:25-29
25 he gave this command to the Levites who carried the ark of the covenant of the LORD :
26 “Take this Book of the Law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God. There it will remain as a witness against you.
27 For I know how rebellious and stiff-necked you are. If you have been rebellious against the LORD while I am still alive and with you, how much more will you rebel after I die! 28 Assemble before me all the elders of your tribes and all your officials, so that I can speak these words in their hearing and call heaven and earth to testify against them.
29 For I know that after my death you are sure to become utterly corrupt and to turn from the way I have commanded you. In days to come, disaster will fall upon you because you will do evil in the sight of the LORD and provoke him to anger by what your hands have made.”

Again, that does not imply or even say that anyone will physically change anything in Scriptures. See, we understand that God is truly all-powerful, and he can prevent man from messing up his Word. It seems like Muslims do not think that God can do that.

Do Christians accept the validity of these verses from their Bible?

Muslims do not have a problem accepting the above verses as being true.

If I show you to be a lier, using your own words, why should I beleive anything you say? I should not. If you show that the Bible is corrupt, using the Bible’s own words, why should you accept anything in it?

But, perhaps, you want it both ways. It is corrupt when it shows Islam to be false, Muhammed to be a wolf in sheeps clothing, and Jesus to be God but it is true when you can prove Islam correct by it.

I am sorry, but either the Bible is correct about everything or it is not. If it correct about everything, you are in serious trouble for denying it. If it is incorrect about everything, you are in serious trouble trying to use a lie to prove your point as true.

 

[hamba2han]

… I am sorry, but either the Bible is correct about everything or it is not. If it correct about everything, you are in serious trouble for denying it. If it is incorrect about everything, you are in serious trouble trying to use a lie to prove your point as true.

What if the Bible did indeed correctly recorded what Moses (pbuh) prophesied and which was later confirmed to be true by the Book of Jeremiah which came approximately 826 years after?

Don’t you think then that there would be a fair possibility that you might be in serious trouble on the Day of Judgment because you willingly CHOSE not to believe what is written in your own Bible?

 

[inJESUS]

Your book has the following verses within it:

`How can you say, “We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,” when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?'

 

[ralphinal]

What if the Bible did indeed correctly recorded what Moses (pbuh) prophesied and which was later confirmed to be true by the Book of Jeremiah which came approximately 826 years after?

Don’t you think then that there would be a fair possibility that you might be in serious trouble on the Day of Judgment because you willingly CHOSE not to believe what is written in your own Bible?

Logically, if those after Moses had changed it, they would have taken that out as well. It is called covering up the lie.

I will take my chances following the God made Man Jesus Christ who lived a blaimless life in the eyes of God and Man. I will take my chances on not calling him a lier or God weak and impotent.

In short, as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD!

You can follow a faith made by a man who killed, ordered killings, started wars, allowed rape and pillaging, and was not blaimless in the eyes of God and Man.

 

[inJESUS]

In short, as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD!

Amen, the Lord Almighty whose words stand for ever.

It is ironic that Islam does not have a leg to stand on except by denying God’s words.

 

[ralphinal]

Amen, the Lord Almighty whose words stand for ever.

It is ironic that Islam does not have a leg to stand on except by denying God’s words.

They deny until they can twist to fit a need. I bet if you pushed them enough, in the same conversation, they would deny and afferm the same passages.