For those who say the Bible is "sufficient" for salvation

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whatistruth said:
You have stayed consistent with Luthernism- you avoid the questions with a question or statement different from the one asked so I will ask again: where in “Sola Scriptura” can you show me orders given from Jesus to Martin Luther " I will remove the Keys to the Kingdom from Peter and his successors and give them over to you and along the way preach the scriptures are superior to the Church; the one I gave myself up for". Please stick to the thread and question as I have consistently been able to do.

shalom!
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Where did Peter use the Keys that Christ gave him? Can you give me a couple of examples how he used them?

Was he the only one who possessed these keys?
 
justasking4 said:
How can you say that the Roman catholic church is the same as the NT church when they are not even identical in structure, doctrines and practices?
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show us where the Roman Catholic Church is not the same Church as the one in the New Testament and show us where your church is the same as the one in the New Testament.

Shalome
 
justasking4 said:
Where did Peter use the Keys that Christ gave him? Can you give me a couple of examples how he used them?

Was he the only one who possessed these keys?
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First of all, the keys represent a symbol of authority and Peter exercised this authority directly after Christ ascended into heaven in the replacement of Judas as an apostle. Secondly he used the authority in Acts chapter 15 in the first council of Jerusalem.

shalom
 
whatistruth said:
First of all, the keys represent a symbol of authority and Peter exercised this authority directly after Christ ascended into heaven in the replacement of Judas as an apostle. Secondly he used the authority in Acts chapter 15 in the first council of Jerusalem.

shalom
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Sorry, I forgot to answer the second part of your question. Jesus gave the keys to Peter alone as stated in Matthew 16 and prophesized in Isaiah 22. However, the other apostles i.e., bishops also had apostolic authority but not at the same level as Peter and his successors of the Church.
 
whatistruth said:
First of all, the keys represent a symbol of authority and Peter exercised this authority directly after Christ ascended into heaven in the replacement of Judas as an apostle. Secondly he used the authority in Acts chapter 15 in the first council of Jerusalem.

shalom
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Peter was not the one in Acts who made the decision. It was James.
 
justasking4 said:
This would be essentially the New Testament and not any other doctrines or practices developed by the catholic church centuries later. Correct?
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From this time between 30 and 51 A.D. there was no New testament writings and no closed canon of the Old Testament other than the Septuagint which is the Greek version of the hebrew scriptures. The New Testament writers used the Septuagint as their scriptual bible. This is objective and historical proof and not an opinion

Shalome
 
whatistruth said:
Sorry, I forgot to answer the second part of your question. Jesus gave the keys to Peter alone as stated in Matthew 16 and prophesized in Isaiah 22. However, the other apostles i.e., bishops also had apostolic authority but not at the same level as Peter and his successors of the Church.
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You might want to read the letters of Paul. If you do you will not find him appealing to Peter for his authority to establish the churches and for teaching them doctrines. Paul was endowed with his authority as an apostle directly from Christ and not from any man. No doubt he possessed just as much authority as Peter and the other apostles.
 
justasking4 said:
You might want to read the letters of Paul. If you do you will not find him appealing to Peter for his authority to establish the churches and for teaching them doctrines. Paul was endowed with his authority as an apostle directly from Christ and not from any man. No doubt he possessed just as much authority as Peter and the other apostles.
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Actually no. Peter was the one that Jesus said this to…
That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matt 16:18

he did not say this to anybody else 🙂
 
wifeandmomoftwo said:
Actually no. Peter was the one that Jesus said this to…
That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matt 16:18

he did not say this to anybody else 🙂
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Where do we find Paul ever appealing to Peter as the rock i.e. foundation for the church in his letters? Its totally absent.
 
justasking4 said:
Peter was not the one in Acts who made the decision. It was James.
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Read carefully, Peter rose and said to them in verse 7 after much debate. Peter is speaking and putting an end to it. The other apostles were ther speaking but Peter had the final word. It goes on to say “the assembly kept silent” and then Paul and Barnabas
spoke.
We are getting off the thread of “Sola Sriptura”. We need to continue the original thread on the bible alone for salvation and is it all we need. What about the oral teachings of the Apostles that are not written in scriptures and the authority of the Church, “The pillar and foundation of Truth”
 
whatistruth said:
From this time between 30 and 51 A.D. there was no New testament writings and no closed canon of the Old Testament other than the Septuagint which is the Greek version of the hebrew scriptures. The New Testament writers used the Septuagint as their scriptual bible. This is objective and historical proof and not an opinion

Shalome
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What the NT church had was the oral and some writings of the apostles in this period. Secondly we don’t know exactly what the Septuagint contained in this period since the earliest copy we have is from about the 4th century.
 
justasking4 said:
Acts 15:19 clearly shows that it was James who is having the final say and giving direction.
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James is the bishop of the particular Church in Jerusalem and Peter is the spokesman of the entire Church. Read Matthew 16 where Jesus gave the keys to Peter alone. This is clearly another reason why we need an authoratative Church to interpret scripture. I hope you can begin to see how Martin Luther’s unbiblical doctrine of self interpretation of scripture is heresy.

Shalome
 
Pwrlftr said:
What are those apostolic teachings?
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They are located in the Apostolic Traditions of the One, Holy, Catholic, and apostolic Church founded by Jesus Christ. Come and see her, she is beautiful.

Shalome
 
whatistruth;3056517]James is the bishop of the particular Church in Jerusalem and Peter is the spokesman of the entire Church. Read Matthew 16 where Jesus gave the keys to Peter alone.
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Many problems with this. For one if the text does not say this. It doesn’t even hint at it.
This is clearly another reason why we need an authoratative Church to interpret scripture. I hope you can begin to see how Martin Luther’s unbiblical doctrine of self interpretation of scripture is heresy.
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Shalome
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If your church has interpreted the scriptures where can i see these interpretations?
 
justasking4 said:
What the NT church had was the oral and some writings of the apostles in this period. Secondly we don’t know exactly what the Septuagint contained in this period since the earliest copy we have is from about the 4th century.
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Now you are making the mistake of questioning Sacred Scripture and its authenticity. You might want to spend more time on the history of the Bible especially the Septuagint.

Shalome
 
whatistruth said:
They are located in the Apostolic Traditions of the One, Holy, Catholic, and apostolic Church founded by Jesus Christ. Come and see her, she is beautiful.

Shalome
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Which of your church’s traditions can you trace back to the apostles that aren’t found in scripture?

Can any of these beliefs be traced back to the apostles:
a.) immaculate conception
b.) assumption of Mary
c.) treasury of merit
d.) Mary as mediatrix of all graces
e.) papal infallibility (something more solid than the Petrine verses in Matthew please)
 
justasking4 said:
Many problems with this. For one if the text does not say this. It doesn’t even hint at it.

Because you are making the crucial mistake of relying on Sola Scriptura and not Apostolic Sacred Tradition. Where is the Church in all of this?

If your church has interpreted the scriptures where can i see these interpretations?
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You can begin with the Catechism of the Catholic Church
 
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