Foreplay when pregnant a sin if it doesn't go any further?

[mom24boys]

Did I really just read all 18 pages of this thread?

 

[Beachcomber]

Did I really just read all 18 pages of this thread?

You and me both.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

HI! this thread was tempting in it’s self. Now I do not see any sin to do anything in the lines of foreplay that leads to the real thing. i think the real thing is alot better OK. I dont feel married people should with hold from each other, only on consent or doctors orders period. Male and female did he make them " Become many and multiply. And love making is all part of being married, it’s with holding that is not. I say Foreplay and Gung Ho! NO foreplay is not a sin or love making. Lets get real and truthful. Love of Christ Nancy

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

A quick answer, then, some advice.

When you began RCIA, the Priest and RCIA leader (if they are different people) talked to you. They asked you questions about your marriage. They helped you then know if your marriage is valid.

As long as neither you or your husband had not been married before to any living person and neither of you was baptized Catholic when you married outside the Church, your marriage is presumed valid. Should there be problems (prior marriage or one of you was a Catholic for instance), your Priest and RCIA director are assisting you in the processes to regularize your marriage.

The term you use asking of your Children is one that was used by some legal systems, it has nothing to do with anything in the Church and is very cruel.

Perhaps English is not your first language, that is why some of your posts seem abrupt in the tone?

Last thing, it is proper internet forum ettiquite to stay on topic of the original question/topic. When you want to ask a question on a different topic, start a new thread. That keeps threads from drifting all over the place.

I know this is a old page but I just recognized you said as long as you dont get married outside the church and are Cathoilc? Andneither of you were married before? HA! my marraige is not recognized, WOW I’m not married? I’m glad I went back here and reread this. Thank you Nancy

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

Kage_er, NO one asked us a thing, and I told the priest everything. So he knew, and allowed us to stay together, I was a Catholic and he is not, never has been. Now what? Do I move out? Nancy

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

Threads like these remind me again and again that these forums need to be heavily moderated to prevent scruples from being passed off for legitimate Catholic moral teaching. Although many posters bring up helpful and relevant texts on the purpose of sexual acts related to unity and procreation (and the definition of lust as sexual arousal isolated from these purposes), I have not seen one spokesperson for the Church (Bishop, Cardinal, Pope or authoritative text, etc) interpret these texts in the highly scrupulous ways the majority of posters here intend for them to be interpreted. The validity of this interpretation is essential, and Church approval of validity must be appealed to here because orthodox Catholics - Catholics who believe everything the Church teaches - disagree on how best to understand the limits of a married couple’s romantic behavior when no sex is intended.

Given the lack of clear teaching on the subject, couples may exercise a free (and unscrupled) conscience with respect to foreplay. Catholics reading this thread should NOT be encouraged to adopt the highly scrupulous consciences of those posting here - and should consult a seasoned and orthodox confessor to discuss matters of conscience like this.

For those who want to read more into this, the topic was debated extensively a long time ago in a different thread: here. Needless to say, the discussion was effectively put to a halt when a statement with an imprimatur was found directly contradicting the scrupulous interpretation of the texts (mentioned above - the notion that ‘foreplay only’ is a grave matter): Here.

I’m sorry I read half of this and I agreed with some but not all. I feel love making (Not Sex) should be between husband and wife, and the church should mind their business, and let people do what comes natural,animals do what comes natural, or do we condem them to? And dont say we dont have alot in common cause we do. Man Kills for nothing Animals kill for food. What is Grave matter? God Bless Nancy

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

I forgot to say that you people know alot about the human anatomy and (Sex) and all the parts But you dont know how to operate it. That’s like designing a vehical and not knowing how to operate it. I realy think God gave no operational directions, he just said become many and multiply. What’s so hard about that?

 

[newbetx]

I’m sorry I read half of this and I agreed with some but not all. I feel love making (Not Sex) should be between husband and wife, and the church should mind their business, and let people do what comes natural,animals do what comes natural, or do we condem them to? And dont say we dont have alot in common cause we do. Man Kills for nothing Animals kill for food. What is Grave matter? God Bless Nancy

Yeah, I was always of the thinking “You no playa the game, you no maka the rules.” I’ve come around a bit, though. From what I read I don’t know that you would have much trouble with what JP II said about things. It’s a different perspective, I realize. And one that I embraced since it struck such a strong cord with my experience with broken relationships and, well, bad choices that really seemed great at the time.

I haven’t reread things to get an idea of what you think about TOB, but I’m sure you’ve seen me recommend reading about it before. We’re called to be better than animals even though we sometimes act worse than them. It’s our ability to control ourselves that is important. And that control means loving one another in an appropriate manner. Expecially our spouses. So much heart ache and sufferring could be avoided if more people acted like a loving person rather than a selfish one.

I went through RCIA, too, a couple of decades ago. I know I wasn’t told everything I needed to understand at the time. I’ve found that most of my issues with the rules of the church were really a battle of my own selfishness. Full surrender is very difficult. But really, the rules aren’t as restrictive as we think them to be once we understand the basis behind them.

Peace to you and please don’t get too upset with us here. Most of us really do believe the Church will guide us to a great and loving life. She is patient, too. Humans, not so much. May your journey with Her be a joy.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

Threads like these remind me again and again that these forums need to be heavily moderated to prevent scruples from being passed off for legitimate Catholic moral teaching. Although many posters bring up helpful and relevant texts on the purpose of sexual acts related to unity and procreation (and the definition of lust as sexual arousal isolated from these purposes), I have not seen one spokesperson for the Church (Bishop, Cardinal, Pope or authoritative text, etc) interpret these texts in the highly scrupulous ways the majority of posters here intend for them to be interpreted. The validity of this interpretation is essential, and Church approval of validity must be appealed to here because orthodox Catholics - Catholics who believe everything the Church teaches - disagree on how best to understand the limits of a married couple’s romantic behavior when no sex is intended.

Given the lack of clear teaching on the subject, couples may exercise a free (and unscrupled) conscience with respect to foreplay. Catholics reading this thread should NOT be encouraged to adopt the highly scrupulous consciences of those posting here - and should consult a seasoned and orthodox confessor to discuss matters of conscience like this.

For those who want to read more into this, the topic was debated extensively a long time ago in a different thread: here. Needless to say, the discussion was effectively put to a halt when a statement with an imprimatur was found directly contradicting the scrupulous interpretation of the texts (mentioned above - the notion that ‘foreplay only’ is a grave matter): Here.

So if you dont do what the church wants you get xcomunicated? You know the MORMONS do that same thing. I feek real bad that peole cannot use theie won brains the goog Lord gave to us all. Praise be to the living God. Nancy

 

[ac_claire]

So if you dont do what the church wants you get xcomunicated? You know the MORMONS do that same thing. I feek real bad that peole cannot use theie won brains the goog Lord gave to us all. Praise be to the living God. Nancy

Not sure what you’re responding to exactly, but to answer your first question: Yes, to an extent. If you aren’t obedient to the Church and to God, there are consequences. Simple as that. (See Adam and Eve.) You have a choice to obey or not to obey. It takes some pretty grave or consistent disobedience to be excommunicated though.

 

[kage_ar]

Kage_er, NO one asked us a thing, and I told the priest everything. So he knew, and allowed us to stay together, I was a Catholic and he is not, never has been. Now what? Do I move out? Nancy

I would suggest you contact Fr. Vincent or one of the Apologists at this web site - Catholic Answers. Their phone number is listed on the main www.catholic.com web page. Explain to him the circumstances, they will advise you how to approach your pastor.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

Not sure what you’re responding to exactly, but to answer your first question: Yes, to an extent. If you aren’t obedient to the Church and to God, there are consequences. Simple as that. (See Adam and Eve.) You have a choice to obey or not to obey. It takes some pretty grave or consistent disobedience to be excommunicated though.

I asked before what is grave? Consistant disobediance,like what,? to whom ? Adam and Eve had no church back then, every thing was done through God alone. But I understand what you are saying there.I dont know about Grave and consistant disobediance for instance? Thank You Nancy

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

Yeah, I was always of the thinking “You no playa the game, you no maka the rules.” I’ve come around a bit, though. From what I read I don’t know that you would have much trouble with what JP II said about things. It’s a different perspective, I realize. And one that I embraced since it struck such a strong cord with my experience with broken relationships and, well, bad choices that really seemed great at the time.

I haven’t reread things to get an idea of what you think about TOB, but I’m sure you’ve seen me recommend reading about it before. We’re called to be better than animals even though we sometimes act worse than them. It’s our ability to control ourselves that is important. And that control means loving one another in an appropriate manner. Expecially our spouses. So much heart ache and sufferring could be avoided if more people acted like a loving person rather than a selfish one.

I went through RCIA, too, a couple of decades ago. I know I wasn’t told everything I needed to understand at the time. I’ve found that most of my issues with the rules of the church were really a battle of my own selfishness. Full surrender is very difficult. But really, the rules aren’t as restrictive as we think them to be once we understand the basis behind them.

Peace to you and please don’t get too upset with us here. Most of us really do believe the Church will guide us to a great and loving life. She is patient, too. Humans, not so much. May your journey with Her be a joy.

Hay newbetx, I love people like you, there should be more of you on this earth, you are sweet and understanding the kind that could bring others to the Love and understanding of the church you love so much. May God Bless you always he has already directed, and guided you. You are loved Nancy Thank You!

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

I would suggest you contact Fr. Vincent or one of the Apologists at this web site - Catholic Answers. Their phone number is listed on the main www.catholic.com web page. Explain to him the circumstances, they will advise you how to approach your pastor.

Thank You kage_ar, but I dont realy see the need to ask for trouble, If this pastor is ok with it so am I. There must be a reason. He might view things differnt. Love of Christ Nancy

 

[Serap]

Thank You kage_ar, but I dont realy see the need to ask for trouble, If this pastor is ok with it so am I. There must be a reason. He might view things differnt. Love of Christ Nancy

I highly doubt it - priests universally know the rules of marriage. I’m sure everything is fine.

Maybe if you’re still thinking about it in a couple of weeks, it won’t hurt to ask around your parish.

AFM - I am shocked that this thread I started is even still active!!! Wow!

 

[kage_ar]

Thank You kage_ar, but I dont realy see the need to ask for trouble, If this pastor is ok with it so am I. There must be a reason. He might view things differnt. Love of Christ Nancy

The laws of the Church are clear, they do not change. There is a chance your Priest misunderstood or was mistaken, they are human beings. Please, read the documents you have been pointed to and talk to a Priest.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

The laws of the Church are clear, they do not change. There is a chance your Priest misunderstood or was mistaken, they are human beings. Please, read the documents you have been pointed to and talk to a Priest.

What documents? And I cannot talk to the priest he is to busy, he said once before confession, if no body here has commited a mortal sin, then you are exonerated, and a few of us recieved. Can I ask you a question? Where on God’s green acres did you learn all this? I dont think I ever read it in the bible? I am not kidding, I am very serious, my priest is to busy to barther with this kind of stuff. Why do you ask these questions if you are to talk to a priest? You cannot be having to much fun with your Mate, if you have to think of what your doing all the time and wonder if you are sinning?Are you realy being honest? Are you just talking about the things you wish you could do? How can you live feeling guilty all the time? I am not upset at you but I question this because it is differnt. LOL Nancy

 

[newbetx]

The laws of the Church are clear, they do not change. There is a chance your Priest misunderstood or was mistaken, they are human beings. Please, read the documents you have been pointed to and talk to a Priest.

Nancy, this, unfortunately, may be true for you. It happens.

There was a couple in my RICA class. Instead of getting a convalidation, they got married (again) in the church. It’s great that they have a anniversary that I’ll always remember. Thanksgiving! Something to think about.

The other thing (that is way off topic here, but then maybe not) is what “church” is. Church (cap C) is the entity that Christ gave his life for. church (little c) has to do the everyday goings on with the earthly institution. At first, I thought many of the “little c” rules were just that. And there are some. However, over time, I found that the “big C” rules are there for a reason. Once I understood the reason, I accepted them and understood them as “big C” things.

First thing to understand is that after 2000 years or so, the Holy Spirit has been working through many and most of the rules we may think are restrictive or oppressive aren’t really meant that way. In fact, they are for our benefit. Humanity is just way too good at fooling itself into justifying actions that are indeed bad for us in the long term.

So the questions we look for guidance for, are attempted to be answered. Sometimes the answer doesn’t sound right or there may be some other circumstance that doesn’t seem to fit the answer.

I think the refereced document states as clearly as our Church wants to state things. It is a very good guideline. Not all things given in love are loving to the extent that eventually it might be bad for the receiver. Not all relations between husband and wife are loving. We have many issues being human that have to be addressed. It is what is in our hearts that does matter. Jesus told us so.

As for the OP’s question, I think it is fair to ponder. I think also, personal opin aside, the referenced document gives the couple plenty to consider. And searching for the Truth is our major objective when it comes to practicing our faith, IMO. May your journey be inspiring and free from obsticles!

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

HI Newbetx, One more thing OK, Our priest in our Parish said we could get married at the alter in Easter after my husband was Baptized and was Catholic, not before. That is the truth, why would I lie about it? Where would it get me? God Bless You! Nancy:wave:

 

[kage_ar]

What documents?

The Cateshism has been linked many times, here it is again: scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

Code of Canon Law is here vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3V.HTM

Can. 1059 Even if only one party is Catholic, the marriage of Catholics is governed not only by divine law but also by canon law, without prejudice to the competence of civil authority concerning the merely civil effects of the same marriage.

Can. 1108 §1. Only those marriages are valid which are contracted before the local ordinary, pastor, or a priest or deacon delegated by either of them, who assist, and before two witnesses according to the rules expressed in the following canons

Can. 1117 The form established above must be observed if at least one of the parties contracting marriage was baptized in the Catholic Church or received into it and has not defected from it by a formal act, without prejudice to the prescripts of ⇒ can. 1127, §2.

You can read the rest of the details, it is clear if one person is Catholic then in order to have a valid marriage that couple must follow the law of the Church

And I cannot talk to the priest he is to busy,

Schedule an appointment with your Priest, if he refuses, contact the Marriage Tribunal at your Diocese. Your priest is charged with the care of the souls in his parish, he will find time to do what needs to be done.

Where on God’s green acres did you learn all this? I dont think I ever read it in the bible? I am not kidding, I am very serious, my priest is to busy to barther with this kind of stuff. Why do you ask these questions if you are to talk to a priest?

I study my faith, as we are commanded in the Bible and in Tradition. I also learn from those put over me, my Priest, Bishop, Deacons, etc.

nancy_dalrymple:

You cannot be having to much fun with your Mate, if you have to think of what your doing all the time and wonder if you are sinning?Are you realy being honest? Are you just talking about the things you wish you could do? How can you live feeling guilty all the time?

We have been happily married for two decades, thank you. My spouse is a devout, practicing Catholic. We live each day putting God first in our lives. God’s yoke is easy, His burden light.