Forgiveness FAQ

[Socrates4Jesus]

I question the basic premise of this inquiry. What makes you think that anyone should meet conditions? In later posts you state “if your brother repents, forgive him”, and this is also true, but forgiveness is not limited to repentent persons. …

Jesus words cause me to consider this, Guano. As i mentioned earlier, He said

“So watch yourselves. If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.”
(Luke 17:3)
I read this and i see repentance as a condition. Jane and others are telling me that Jesus means we should forgive both those who repent and those who do not (in short, we should forgive everyone). If this is the truth, i think Jesus would have made it easier for me to see it if, instead of saying, “if he repents” He would have said, “regardless of whether or not he repents”.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

… My current dilemma is trying to understand how this principle should be applied in the middle east, and on this Memorial Day, reflecting on the events of 9/11 and how to respond peacefully to such atrocities.

Yes. Anabaptists (such as those in Amish communities) and Quakers resolve the issue by saying they will commit no violence, not even in self-defense or to protect those they love. I believe their course of action is a consistent one, but not necessarily the one Jesus wants.

I was in the U.S. Army for a time, and never shot anything but targets made to look like men. I wonder how someone who believes he should forgive everyone, regardless of what they do, reconciles shooting a man dead with forgiving him?

Me, i would say, “Love always protects, but it does not always forgive. If my enemy tries to harm me, rather than forgive him, i must protect myself and others.” To say i forgive him and then pull the trigger to cause his death would make me a hypocrite, i think. Of course, if he were to lay down him weapon and surrender, i would have no choice but to forgive him and treat him as i myself would want to be treated were i in his situation.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

… As Scripture holds, the Lord teaches us to pray:
“Forgive us our sins,
for we also forgive everyone who sins against us.” Luke 11:4
…

*The first to present her case seems right, till another comes forward and questions her.(Proverbs 18:17)*Jane:

If what you say is true, then Luke 11:4 might be one of the strongest passages in favor of forgiving arbitrarily. However, i think it is wise for me to be careful not to read too much into what Jesus is saying. So, i ask Jesus, “Do You mean forgive everyone regardless of what she says and does, or do You mean forgive everyone who you will forgive?”

I read a little further in Luke 11, and the immediate context of the passage gives me a clue as to how our Teacher is using the word everyone:

“For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.”(Luke 11:10)Reading this, i ask Him, “Do You, Jesus, give everyone whatever she asks You to give her?” The answer, of course, is no, He does not. To help me understand the meaning of Luke 11:10, the Holy Spirit reminds me that St. John said

… that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him. (1 John 5:14-15)So, not everyone receives what she asks God to give her, but only one who asks according to his will. What Jesus really meant was that “everyone who asks [according to God’s will] receives”.

=====================================

I then look at the wider context of St. Luke’s gospel and discover this use of the word everyone in the next chapter:

And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. (Luke 12:10)I again ask Jesus, “Do You mean absolutely everyone who says all kinds of wicked, slanderous things against You will be forgiven, or only those who repent?” The answer, of course, is that only those who repent will be forgiven and not judged for such a sin. (I think you willl agree, Jane, for you told me God forgives conditionally.)

Hence, here again, Jesus did not mean everyone, regardless of what they say or do. Rather, He meant that “everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man [and repents of this sin] will be forgiven” by God.

=====================================

In two chapters of Luke i find two examples of Jesus using the word everyone but not meaning absolutely everyone without exception. Therefore, i do not think it unreasonable to say it is possible that what Jesus means by the words you quoted is

“Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us [and who later shows she has have repented by her words and actions].” (Luke 11:4)

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

… If he is truly sorry, God will forgive him. I believe that God forgives anyone who is truly sorry, how could he not??? …

And should i forgive everyone who is truly sorry, or everyone who is not sorry?

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Everyone:

Thank you much for coming along with me on this journey to find the true meaning of forgiveness and how to forgive. I have won half the battle in my struggle to learn the truth, for i have a definition (albeit, not a perfect one) of forgiveness:

Forgiveness is either an attribute of love, or an act of love, or both.This definition is one with which at least seven of you agree, and with which no one disagrees. I think it is safe, at least for the moment, to assume this is the correct definition. Now that i know what forgiveness is, you can now all help me see how this definition of forgiveness teaches me to forgive.

St. Paul, i believe, will help set me straight. For forgiveness is love and he has these helpful words to say about love:

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails.
(1 Corinthians 13:4-8)
Whether this is an exhaustive list of the attributes (or perhaps the acts) of love, i do not know. What i do know is that the list is of great help in determining how to love. I know that i love someone if i am

• patient
• kind
• not envious
• not boastful
• not proud
• not rude
• not selfish
• not easily angered
• not keeping a record of wrongs
• not delighting in evil
• rejoicing with the truth
• always protecting
• always trusting
• always hoping
• always persevering
• never failing to love
  My question to everyone, then, is which one of these attributes or acts of love describes forgiveness?

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Q. 8. Since forgiveness is an attribute or act of love, which one of these attributes or acts of love listed in 1 Corinthians 13 describes forgiveness?

• patient
• kind
• not envious
• not boastful
• not proud
• not rude
• not selfish
• not easily angered
• not keeping a record of wrongs
• not delighting in evil
• rejoicing with the truth
• always protecting
• always trusting
• always hoping
• always persevering
• never failing to love

 

[clmowry]

I think before the conversation can proceed you need to resolve a couple of items.

**1.) **Are we are capable of doing anything “just as” God does, and perhaps more to the point, does what God expects of our relationship to Him apply to our relationship with each other?
2.) Even though I think you concluded earlier that “Forgiveness is an attribute of love or act of love.” Do you also believe that the commands given relative to how we love apply to forgiveness as well?

It appears to me that your answers to the question are bold are still “Yes” and “No” respectively.

1.) You keep drawing conclusions on what we should do relative to our neighbor from what God does with us. Most here have argued that we cannot do “just as” God does because we do not possess “all” of His attributes.

2.) You seem to have consistently argued that the commands that Christ and His apostles have given about how we should love should NOT apply to how we forgive? You seem to be saying, “Yes to Forgive is and Act of Love but because forgiveness is not “every” act of love the rules to love don’t apply to forgiveness.”

Perhaps my perception of your positions is wrong. Could you clear this up for us?

Chuck

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

I think before the conversation can proceed you need to resolve a couple of items.

**1.) **Are we are capable of doing anything “just as” God does, and perhaps more to the point, does what God expects of our relationship to Him apply to our relationship with each other?
2.) Even though I think you concluded earlier that “Forgiveness is an attribute of love or act of love.” Do you also believe that the commands given relative to how we love apply to forgiveness as well?

It appears to me that your answers to the question are bold are still “Yes” and “No” respectively.

1.) You keep drawing conclusions on what we should do relative to our neighbor from what God does with us. Most here have argued that we cannot do “just as” God does because we do not possess “all” of His attributes.

2.) You seem to have consistently argued that the commands that Christ and His apostles have given about how we should love should NOT apply to how we forgive? You seem to be saying, “Yes to Forgive is and Act of Love but because forgiveness is not “every” act of love the rules to love don’t apply to forgiveness.”

Perhaps my perception of your positions is wrong. Could you clear this up for us?

Chuck

I’ll try to answer your questions, Chuck.

Are we are capable of doing anything “just as” God does, and perhaps more to the point, does what God expects of our relationship to Him apply to our relationship with each other?
I’m not capable of succeeding, but i am capable of trying. St. Paul tell you and me to “Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children…” (Ephesians 5:1). Just as i want my sons to imitate me (and know they will fall short) so too i think God wants you and me to imitate Him in everything we do, including in the way we forgive, even though we will fall short.

Do you also believe that the commands given relative to how we love apply to forgiveness as well?
Yes, i do think that we should forgive as we love because forgiveness is an attribute or act of love. What do you think?

You keep drawing conclusions on what we should do relative to our neighbor from what God does with us. Most here have argued that we cannot do “just as” God does because we do not possess “all” of His attributes.
I’m advocating that i should try, admitting that i will often fail. Jesus said

“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.”

(John 13:34)
Even though i know i will often fail to love others as Jesus loves me, i must try. Why should the way i love others by forgiving them be any different?

You seem to be saying, “Yes to Forgive is and Act of Love but because forgiveness is not “every” act of love the rules to love don’t apply to forgiveness.”

Actually, i am saying the rules to love apply to forgiveness, because forgiveness is love.

I hope i have answered your questions to your satisfaction, Chuck. Please, will you answer my question number 8?

 

[clmowry]

Let’s see I’ll go with: All of the above (or below as the case may be.)

Though I don’t really like the implications of the “always trusting” one…cause well when it comes to forgiveness…that’s the hard part and well…I don’t want to do the hard part. But blast it, I’d still say yeah…that’s an attribute of Love that “should” be and attribute of “forgiveness” (whether I like it or not.)

• patient
• kind
• not envious
• not boastful
• not proud
• not rude
• not selfish
• not easily angered
• not keeping a record of wrongs
• not delighting in evil
• rejoicing with the truth
• always protecting
• always trusting
• always hoping
• always persevering
• never failing to love

Q. 8. Since forgiveness is an attribute or act of love, which one of these attributes or acts of love listed in 1 Corinthians 13 describes forgiveness?

• patient
• kind
• not envious
• not boastful
• not proud
• not rude
• not selfish
• not easily angered
• not keeping a record of wrongs
• not delighting in evil
• rejoicing with the truth
• always protecting
• always trusting
• always hoping
• always persevering
• never failing to love

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Let’s see I’ll go with: All of the above (or below as the case may be.)

Though I don’t really like the implications of the “always trusting” one…cause well when it comes to forgiveness…that’s the hard part and well…I don’t want to do the hard part. But blast it, I’d still say yeah…that’s an attribute of Love that “should” be and attribute of “forgiveness” (whether I like it or not.)

• patient
• kind
• not envious
• not boastful
• not proud
• not rude
• not selfish
• not easily angered
• not keeping a record of wrongs
• not delighting in evil
• rejoicing with the truth
• always protecting
• always trusting
• always hoping
• always persevering
• never failing to love

LOL! Yeah, that “always trust” thing is hard for me to swallow, too!

When i step back and think about it, i’m not so sure that forgiveness has to have as its essential nature every attribute of love or has to result in every act of love. If forgiveness did have every attribute of love, it would not be an attribute of love; it would be love itself! Moreover, if every act of love was forgiveness, then forgiveness would cease to be an act of love, it would be every act of love. As someone else in this discussion pointed out (i’m not sure who) all forgiveness is love, but not all love is forgiveness. I have to agree with this, as not every act or attribute of love necessarily has to be forgiving. Some love is giving; some love is protecting; some love is humble; and so forth.

So, i’d like to ask, Chuck, if you had to definitely say any one of these attributes or acts of love is always forgiveness, which one would you choose? I’d like to guess that love which “keeps no record of wrongs” is, for certain, forgiveness. What do you think of my suggestion, Chuck?

 

[clmowry]

When looking at the list I really don’t know which one we can take off as “not” being an attribute of forgiveness.

Certainly “keeps no record of wrong doing” seems to be the most applicable, but which one “doesn’t” apply?

At first glance, I thought “not boastful” or “not proud” or “not envious” might not apply. But then again, why will some often not forgive? Pride? Envy? Boastfullness?

I’m not sure I can pick one out that simply does not apply.

Perhaps it is that “forgiveness” is the “most loving” act that we perform and therefore it shares more in common with “all” of the attributes of Love?

What if we apply the same test to another act of love? Say giving Alms to the poor?

Then I think I can knock a few off. I don’t think that the following necessarily apply to “Alms giving:” patient, not boastful, not proud, not easily angered , not keeping a record of wrongs, not delighting in evil , rejoicing with the truth, always trusting.

I just can’t seem to do the same thing with forgiveness.

Chuck

LOL! Yeah, that “always trust” thing is hard for me to swallow, too!

When i step back and think about it, i’m not so sure that forgiveness has to have as its essential nature every attribute of love or has to result in every act of love. If forgiveness did have every attribute of love, it would not be an attribute of love; it would be love itself! Moreover, if every act of love was forgiveness, then forgiveness would cease to be an act of love, it would be every act of love. As someone else in this discussion pointed out (i’m not sure who) all forgiveness is love, but not all love is forgiveness. I have to agree with this, as not every act or attribute of love necessarily has to be forgiving. Some love is giving; some love is protecting; some love is humble; and so forth.

So, i’d like to ask, Chuck, if you had to definitely say any one of these attributes or acts of love is always forgiveness, which one would you choose? I’d like to guess that love which “keeps no record of wrongs” is, for certain, forgiveness. What do you think of my suggestion, Chuck?

 

[Tweety]

And should i forgive everyone who is truly sorry, or everyone who is not sorry?

Sorry Socrates4Jesus,

My computer is playing up… For some reason, my signature didn’t show yesterday.

I could not have forgiven - if it weren’t for God and my mother who showed me that forgiving him doesn’t mean that what he did was ok, it doesn’t justify his actions, it just means that i let go of all the hurt and pain associated with him. It still hurts, how could it not, but i do not dwell on it as i used to. He is not worth the anger that used to build up inside me. Why should i give him the power to have anything over me. No, God does not want that, he had the power over me for a very, long time.

For me, i believe in forgiving those who trespass against me. Now that doesn’t mean that they have to be sorry for their actions, in a perfect world - they would be, but this world is not perfect.

My daddy committed suicide. The police lied to me for many, many months to try to cover up their mistakes and laziness… My father lay in a morgue for 3 months, even though they had my details to get in touch with me… they didn’t… It sent me over the edge… I wanted to kill a certain policeman and God knows in my heart i did. He offered to send me the rope which my father used to hang himself with… If you can imagine my despair at the thought of having the rope my darling father used in my hands??? They played with my mind, heart and emotions…Told me he left 2 notes - he left 6! I have forgiven the policeman - i was already seeing a grief counsellor, and then i was sent to a psychologist almost immediately as i literally ‘lost it’ in my doctor’s surgery… it took many, many, many months to get through it all. I can understand that it is hard to forgive, but… it really is a release for our souls… to be able to forgive - what a feeling it is… Incredible, undescribable for me… I do believe that forgiveness is a choice - i didn’t before, but do now.

I think forgiveness is an act of love. For me it is an act of love for Jesus, and for the person i forgive also i suppose. So maybe i do love the man who molested me if i can forgive him? It sounds icky… to say that i love the man who hurt me and molested me for those years… I was never close to him as a child, and never said i loved him when i was little, before he molested me and definately never afterwards…* As a fellow human being - maybe?* but i don’t really know if i can say i love* him *- no, i can’t. I wish him no badness, but i do not love him - sorry, I love Jesus.

I feel that love and forgiveness should both be unconditional. Easier said than done sometimes, but that is my (name removed by moderator)ut… I asked God to give me the heart to be able to forgive the man who molested me, and believe me - he did!

God’s blessings to you.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

When looking at the list I really don’t know which one we can take off as “not” being an attribute of forgiveness.

Certainly “keeps no record of wrong doing” seems to be the most applicable, but which one “doesn’t” apply?

At first glance, I thought “not boastful” or “not proud” or “not envious” might not apply. But then again, why will some often not forgive? Pride? Envy? Boastfullness?

I’m not sure I can pick one out that simply does not apply.

Perhaps it is that “forgiveness” is the “most loving” act that we perform and therefore it shares more in common with “all” of the attributes of Love?

What if we apply the same test to another act of love? Say giving Alms to the poor?

Then I think I can knock a few off. I don’t think that the following necessarily apply to “Alms giving:” patient, not boastful, not proud, not easily angered , not keeping a record of wrongs, not delighting in evil , rejoicing with the truth, always trusting.

I just can’t seem to do the same thing with forgiveness.

Chuck

Yes, Chuck, i see what you mean. And you might think it odd of me to say this, but those who know me well will be the first to say that i am an odd ball: It might help (or at least be hard to forget) to think of love as an octopus. By this i do not mean the horrid type of monster that you might find in some horror show, but a creature of a kinder and gentler nature.

Lets say a man who is SUBA diving encounters the calm, eight-armed being, floating peacefully beneath an ocean’s waves. Being the friendly sort, it might reach out and gently touch the diver on the arm with one tenticle, then reach out and brush the diver’s mask with another tenticle, or kindly embrace him with five or more.

Love might be like our loving sea inhabitant. Sometimes we love a person in one way, sometimes in another. To some people we love in many ways, to others we love in a few. Yet, i doubt that you and i can love everyone in every way at every moment. Your example of giving to the poor whom you have never met is a good illustration of this. Another illustration might be the soldier who rescues a hostage from a terrorist. He might love her by protecting her, but she in no way might be able to return the love the same way by protecting him. However, she might later show kindness to him when he visits her in the hospital after the ordeal. There are an infinite number of examples you and i might give, i think, where we love in one way, but not in another. Like the octopus, who is a metaphor for love, the one love can reach out and touch people in different ways, and also according to their needs.

Jesus seems to hint at loving people in different ways when He says:

“Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him.”(John 7:38)There is not one stream of living water that flows from the true follower of Christ, there are many streams (as Jesus used the plural). But there is, of course, one source that feeds the different acts of love that we express, who is the Holy Spirit, for God is love.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

When looking at the list I really don’t know which one we can take off as “not” being an attribute of forgiveness.

Certainly “keeps no record of wrong doing” seems to be the most applicable, but which one “doesn’t” apply? …

Socrates said to one of his friends:

I am myself a great lover of these processes of division and generalization, Phaedrus; they help me to speak and think.

(Phaedrus 266)
and i, like him, am also a lover of reasoning from general principles and dividing them into specific classes. The idea that there is one love, but may attributes or acts of love (like the one octopus with many tentacles or the one spring of living water with many streams) is an extremely helpful one. Don’t you agree, Chuck?

What it appears to tell us is that we can love a person in one way and not another. In short, we love every way that is appropriate and necessary and good, but we should not love in any way that is not appropriate, nor necessary, nor good. I think this is reasonable, Chuck, do you? If you are still unsure, i will offer an example or two, as examples often open my eyes to what others see and i cannot see.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Sorry Socrates4Jesus,

My computer is playing up… For some reason, my signature didn’t show yesterday. …God’s blessings to you.

Tweety:

I work in information technology and rarely a day goes by where i do not solve some computer-related problem for someone. What is the nature of the trouble? Perhaps i might be able to help.

And thanks for the blessing (i need it)!

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

… My daddy committed suicide. The police lied to me for many, many months to try to cover up their mistakes and laziness. My father lay in a morgue for 3 months, even though they had my details to get in touch with me they didn’t. It sent me over the edge. I wanted to kill a certain policeman and God knows in my heart i did. He offered to send me the rope which my father used to hang himself with. If you can imagine my despair at the thought of having the rope my darling father used in my hands??? They played with my mind, heart and emotions. Told me he left 2 notes - he left 6! I have forgiven the policeman - i was already seeing a grief counsellor, and then i was sent to a psychologist almost immediately as i literally ‘lost it’ in my doctor’s surgery it took many, many, many months to get through it all. I can understand that it is hard to forgive, but it really is a release for our souls to be able to forgive - what a feeling it is Incredible, undescribable for me I do believe that forgiveness is a choice - i didn’t before, but do now. …

As before, i cannot imagine your loss. Not that this will help, but i can imagine a purpose. Once my mother was in the hospital, bleeding internally, and in great pain. I had a new job and no vacation or personal time. I had to keep my job to care for my wife and kids, so i could not visit her several states away. I did call her each day, and during one conversation she asked why God had done this too her. In answer, i said the first thing that came into my head. I told her that St. Paul wrote to people who were suffering, too, and he told them:

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves have received from God. For just as the sufferings of Christ flow over into our lives, so also through Christ our comfort overflows.“God might be allowing you to suffer like this, Mom, so that one day you will be able to help someone who suffers that same way you have,” I told her. I hope God’s purpose is the same is for you, Tweety.

 

[clmowry]

What it appears to tell us is that we can love a person in one way and not another. In short, we love every way that is appropriate and necessary and good, but we should not love in any way that is not appropriate, nor necessary, nor good. I think this is reasonable, Chuck, do you? If you are still unsure, i will offer an example or two, as examples often open my eyes to what others see and i cannot see.

I would agree that some of the attributes of Love may not always be appropriate, necessay or good in a given circumstance.

For example, when it comes toforgiveness, it might not be “good” to “always trust” an unrepentant or habitual sinner not to repeat his sin.

In fact it could be a very bad ting to do. i.e. a child molestor may truely be sorry for what he’s done, but the evidence seems to support that in even in the pressence of genuine contrition it is a temptation to which those who suffer from this disorder are more likely than not to give into again.

Therefore it would not be “loving” to “trust” a chld molestor being left alone with a child. It would be a very unloving thing to dop to both parties.

Chuck

 

[Tweety]

As before, i cannot imagine your loss. Not that this will help, but i can imagine a purpose. Once my mother was in the hospital, bleeding internally, and in great pain. I had a new job and no vacation or personal time. I had to keep my job to care for my wife and kids, so i could not visit her several states away. I did call her each day, and during one conversation she asked why God had done this too her. In answer, i said the first thing that came into my head. I told her that St. Paul wrote to people who were suffering, too, and he told them:

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves have received from God. For just as the sufferings of Christ flow over into our lives, so also through Christ our comfort overflows.“God might be allowing you to suffer like this, Mom, so that one day you will be able to help someone who suffers that same way you have,” I told her. I hope God’s purpose is the same is for you, Tweety.

Thank you Socrates4Jesus,

Firstly, i hope your mum had a full recovery.

I believe we have all been given our own crosses to carry and that helps in our purification once we die… I pray this is the case as my mother has had many crosses to bear, and her health at the moment at 72 is declining… A friend who is studying to be a priest asked God why is that my mother suffers so much and the answer he received in his heart was that it was for her purification.

I hope i am able to help someone one day…

As for my computer! I walk away and when i come back to it, the screen is black and sort of flashing… and everything is frozen… It is a pentium 4… I do the virus thingies… I have spybot and clamwin - they came with the computer. *One * day we will update and get a new one, after we buy a new fridge, microwave etc… everything seems to be going on the blink… Funny that, all of them at once… Well, actually it is not funny! It is annoying!

God bless.

Tweety.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Thank you Socrates4Jesus,

Firstly, i hope your mum had a full recovery.

I believe we have all been given our own crosses to carry and that helps in our purification once we die… I pray this is the case as my mother has had many crosses to bear, and her health at the moment at 72 is declining… A friend who is studying to be a priest asked God why is that my mother suffers so much and the answer he received in his heart was that it was for her purification.

I hope i am able to help someone one day…

As for my computer! I walk away and when i come back to it, the screen is black and sort of flashing… and everything is frozen… It is a pentium 4… I do the virus thingies… I have spybot and clamwin - they came with the computer. *One *day we will update and get a new one, after we buy a new fridge, microwave etc… everything seems to be going on the blink… Funny that, all of them at once… Well, actually it is not funny! It is annoying!

God bless.

Tweety.

Yes, she has recovered. Thank you. We are making the trip to New York state to visit her and other relatives this summer, and i’m looking forward to see her again.

Regarding your computer, it sounds like a video driver problem. Updating the driver might cure it. It might also be the screen saver is corrupted. Switching to a different screen saver or to no screen saver might do the trick. There are other possible causes. I’d suggest going to a site like computerhope.com/forum/
and posting a reply at the Windows, or hardware or drivers forum. Most of the people there are extremely helpful. GX1_Man is experienced, as is Patio (who is also a Catholic). Tell them pcdoc4christ sent you!

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

I would agree that some of the attributes of Love may not always be appropriate, necessay or good in a given circumstance.

For example, when it comes toforgiveness, it might not be “good” to “always trust” an unrepentant or habitual sinner not to repeat his sin.

In fact it could be a very bad ting to do. i.e. a child molestor may truely be sorry for what he’s done, but the evidence seems to support that in even in the pressence of genuine contrition it is a temptation to which those who suffer from this disorder are more likely than not to give into again.

Therefore it would not be “loving” to “trust” a chld molestor being left alone with a child. It would be a very unloving thing to dop to both parties.

Chuck

Yes, Chuck, i absolutely agree! However, a skeptic might laugh and mockingly tease, “So, you are saying it is loving to not love?”

You might then smile and gently correct him, saying, “No, i would love the child molester by being kind and gentle with him. I just would not love him by trusting him.”

“Yes,” i might add, “that we love is not an option; how we love is.” That is, God sees fit to take the risk in allowing us to decide what is the appropriate and necessary and good way to love in each circumstance. We should not recklessly allow the “octopus of love” within us reach out to love everyone in every way, or some might accuse us (perhaps rightly so) of causing more harm than good. I do not think the skeptic would argue against such reasonable logic.