Formally Defected from the Roman Catholic Church?

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In practice, one could write a letter to the local bishop stating that you are no longer a member of the Catholic Church.

The bishop might claim that you are still Catholic, but you will, under US law, have legal recourse against The Church for tortious actions made against your person that you might not otherwise have had if you had not made such an affirmative declaration.

Since the Church in the US doesn’t seem to actually discipline the laity in practice, this is sort of a moot point.
 
As to the second graphic, while I can certainly appreciate its intent, it makes little sense. If one is Catholic because of God’s love, Jesus, the Eucharist, and God’s Word, one just cannot say they are not Catholic because of priests, bishops and the pope. God’s love is why Jesus came and died for us and left us the Eucharist, and a hierarchical, sacramental Church. We would not have the Eucharist without priests. We would not be able to have a proper understanding of God’s Word without Bishops and Popes. As flawed as they might be, we are certainly Catholic because of them.
 
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Minks said:
There’s no possible way that you could understand fully and then walk away. Talk to a priest in another parish? Talk to us at CAF? Maybe sit through an RCIA class in another parish? Maybe immerse yourself into the comfort of a men’s retreat?

Could you not spend an hour or two in Adoration? Talk to Jesus part of the time
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I can speak only for myself.

I understood the Faith (and the Church) at least as well most Catholics - and perhaps better than some. My ‘walking away’ took nine painful years; and my last conversation with Jesus was a tearful - and heartfelt - apology that I could no longer accept that he is divine;nor other, related, doctrines. It was time to leave.
 
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TechieGuy said:
The bishop might claim that you are still Catholic, but you will, under US law, have legal recourse against The Church for tortious actions made against your person that you might not otherwise have had if you had not made such an affirmative declaration.

Since the Church in the US doesn’t seem to actually discipline the laity in practice, this is sort of a moot point.
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I was going to say, what “tortious action made against your person” could the Church possibly make against a lay person in USA? We have zero legal obligation to the Church as a mere lay person member in USA. We don’t pay a “church tax”. The Church could bring an employment action or a contract action against its employees, or a contract action against someone who contracts with it to provide goods or services, but we don’t sign any contract or enter into any legal relationship with the Church as a mere member. With respect to tortious actions, the Church could bring an action in tort against a person for the usual torts of willfulness or negligence, like if somebody drove recklessly into the church building and wrecked it, but that has nothing to do with whether the reckless driver is a member of the Church or not.

About the only legal value I could see in such a letter is if you were planning to join some other Church X, and Church X required some proof that you were formally renouncing the Catholic Church as a condition of becoming a member of Church X. You’d write a letter to the Catholic Church, who, assuming you’re not an employee or a clergy person or religious order member, would likely just ignore it, and you’d cc Church X for their files.
 
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Yeah, I can see this situation happening with respect to the evangelical churches or the LDS church that tend to police their personal lives in ways that the Catholic Church in USA does not. Such churches also are more likely to have some kind of a formal membership agreement with the church member stating the conditions for continuing as a member, such as contributing X amount of money, attending services, observing certain rules of moral behavior, etc.

This is another reason I really love the Catholic Church so much. No pressure, they don’t need your name on a list, just show up and pray and receive Sacraments. The only time they look to see if you are a geo member or a contributing member is when you ask for a wedding or a funeral or you need a recommendation from the priest for something.
 
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TechieGuy said:
In practice, one could write a letter to the local bishop stating that you are no longer a member of the Catholic Church.

The bishop might claim that you are still Catholic, but you will, under US law, have legal recourse against The Church for tortious actions made against your person that you might not otherwise have had if you had not made such an affirmative declaration.

Since the Church in the US doesn’t seem to actually discipline the laity in practice, this is sort of a moot point.
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That may apply to evangelical or fundie churches, the LDS or other churches who are centered around their pastor or leadership.

The RCC is very different than that and thus no such letter is necessary
 
At the same time, though, the Church is “an entity with visible delineation” (Lumen Gentium 9) and “the bonds which bind men to the Church in a visible way are profession of faith, the sacraments, and ecclesiastical government and communion.” (Lumen Gentium 14). This visible belonging is the concept of “membership” as defined in Mystici Corporis 22.

This is why public heresy, schism, and apostasy are by their very nature–apart from any positive law–acts of separation whereby one ceases to be a member. Not that I would encourage anyone to do so, but those are the ways to “leave” the Church as far as one can leave.

Of course, as you note, one’s bond with the Church can never be completely severed because of the indelible mark of baptism (from what i understand, this is the basis for what we call “partial communion” with the Church).

Ott’s Fundamentals sums it all up:
Although public apostates and heretics, schismatics and excommunicati vitandi are outside the legal organisation of the Church, still their relationship to the Church is essentially different from that of the unbaptised. As the baptismal character which effects incorporation in the Church is indestructible, the baptised person, in spite of his ceasing to be a member of the Church, cannot cut himself off so completely from the Church, that every bond with the Church is dissolved.
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Christ spoke in Scripture of those who know the truth and choose to leave, so, we leave that up to Him.
 
KnightErrant said:
For the record. I didn’t lose faith in Christ, I just lost faith in what was supposed to be “His” church because of “His” ministers.
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I have a different view point. I see men with devious intentions realized that they could take on a role of trust and have access to teen boys. They could see which ones were vulnerable and have access to them without anyone being concerned. They could hide behind the collar. It’s the same for men who coach sports teams or are teachers, or who ever has access to teen boys. To see that men came in and abused hockey players does not mean I’ll never go to another hockey game. I hope those predators are in jail where they belong. But, I want kids to continue to play hockey.

I hope for you that you continue to come to the Eucharist every Sunday. That you bring all the joys, sorrows and sufferings of the week and offer it on the altar, for the conversion of sinners and peace in this world, as our Blessed Mother asked at Fatima.

When God fed his people manna in the desert, it was indeed bread from heaven. We have something greater here in the Eucharist. On that altar heaven and earth are joined in the sacrament. I don’t want you to miss out. I want you here with us, fighting, and being a force for good. In these dark days, we need everyone on board.
 
Do the JW’s know about this? Of course they do! However, most of the horror stories I’ve ever heard have come from JW’s that left…and they definitely shun! They really are a Hotel California!
 
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@Niblo I’m sorry for the pain that has rendered you, Niblo. My heart goes out to you in your anguish. I will pray for you, hoping that you’ll find resolution and peace, and I believe that you will, if you live long enough. May God’s blessings bring you solace, even if, for now, you’re unbelieving. ❤️
 
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@KnightErrant Why is it important to “formally defect” from the Catholic Church. There really are no “files” kept anywhere. There are the sacramental records but those will remain no matter what church you chose to go to. Your parish may have an electronic file one you if you registered at your parish but that will be purged after a period of no activity.
 
KnightErrant said:
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Tis_Bearself:
No, he just wanted to find a formal way of leaving that would make him feel better.
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You are right in a sense. It sure would feel better to leave in such a way that is more final than just drifting and allowing the RCC use non active Catholics (including those baptized and confirmed but no longer practicing) to boost their statistics.
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Unfortunately, the Church counts all who have converted to Catholicism or baptized as Catholics as part of their number even if they convert away. Worse, when announcing the number of Catholics most outlets will list the number without stating it includes those who definitely would not identify themselves as Catholic, thus making that number appear as though it’s the number of self-identified Catholics.
 
I believe another poster addressed how the Church “counts” the number of parishioners. They count heads at Mass and/ or may count number of parishioners registered at the parish office. They don’t “count” by number of baptisms.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
I believe another poster addressed how the Church “counts” the number of parishioners. They count heads at Mass and/ or may count number of parishioners registered at the parish office. They don’t “count” by number of baptisms.
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Back when CAF had an “Ask an Apologist” section I asked how the Church counted the number of Catholics in its annual “Statistical Yearbook” (the Annuarium Statisticum Ecclesiae):
Hello,

How does the Catholic Church determine the number of Catholics in both the United States as well as the world? Does Omnium in mentem , which removes the process by which one can formally defect from the Church mean that the totals given in the Annuarium Statisticum Ecclesiae include those who are practicing a non-Catholic Christian faith, a non-Christian faith, or no faith at all?
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Father Charles Grondin responded:
The “Annuarium” gives the total number of Catholics in the world by region. Anyone baptized Catholic is considered a Catholic. They are counted as Catholic even if they are not going to Mass or are attending a non-Catholic community. This is the same as counting a blood relative as a member of your family even if they “disown” their family, once a member of the family you are always a member of the family.

Given how few people actually followed the process to formally defect prior to Omnium in mentem it wouldn’t appear that the change would have much of an impact on the overall numbers.
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You can see the brief thread here
 
Never heard of the Annuarium and have no idea what practical use it has.

The Dioceses in USA do an annual census, which is generally published by the diocese and often available on the web. It’s not based on number of baptisms. It would not make sense to base it on number of baptisms because the diocese uses the census to make decisions as to which parishes to keep and which to close, etc. It’s based on the number of actual people or families participating in the parish.
 
The Statistical Yearbook is kind of a big deal. It’s what the Vatican uses to track events over the previous year, including what it claims is it’s membership total. It is specifically cited y the Vatican in its press releases.

https://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/en/bollettino/pubblico/2017/04/06/170406e.html

It’s also used by news sources (especially Catholic ones).


It’s sad that anyone who either isn’t Catholic or is Catholic but is not familiar with how the Church arrives at its number will get an inflated impression as to its membership rolls.
 
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