Former Catholics

[4Squarebaby]

Without addressing the other points you raise here, I wanted to say that I have observed this myself, mostly in the larger urban and suburban Latin parishes. ‘Community’ is often something of a misnomer when applied to a Latin Catholic parish. There are probably missions in remote places, or small towns, where this is not an issue but around Chicago where I live all the smaller parishes were scuttled or consolidated long ago.

These larger parishes are not any more a community than a large high school is a community. In such an environment one may be part of a small clique that serves as a pseudo-community, but doesn’t involve the greater portion of the population. Or one might be a complete loner.

In a large parish one may be totally anonymous. No one in particular is glad to see you walk in, and no one in particular misses you when you don’t show up. This is a major problem, it has become impossible to keep abreast of all the parishioners and their special needs. In a smaller parish, like a mission perhaps, everyone knows everyone else and when someone hasn’t been seen for a while there is a phone call from a friend, or even the priest. There will be emails, greeting cards and sincere letters posted in the mail. There may be a knock at the door from a good friend, gift in hand.

Even the strongest Christians at one time or another go through that dark night of the soul. They can become discouraged, they grapple with acedia and lethargy, they can have doubts. These are dangerous times when the devil can be very active.

No one wants to let their fellow travelers feel neglected, abandoned or uncared for at times like that.

Yet that is precisely what will happen when the parishioners have not forged strong ties to one another. In the early church the Christians were intimately close to one another, and it is no cliche’ to say “they’ll know we are Christians by our love” because they were just like that long ago.

We must not forget that we are saved in community, that is a paramount Catholic principle, we need to act like a community of like-minded Christians at all times. Sadly, that is extremely hard to do in a mondo-parish with multiple liturgies, and that does not address some of the other conditions that (if not actually making things a bit worse) are certainly not helping the situation. I cite anonymous confession and a large rotation of eucharistic ministers, which have had the effect of making the clergy even more remote from the congregation, and pews that keep the people corralled in like animals in stalls.

Finally there is very little time for real fellowship after the Mass, the parking lot has to be cleared out before the people coming for the next Mass start rolling in and snarling up the exits.

The people have by-and-large become so used to these conditions they have come to perceive it as normal.

Michael

When I was born again and begin exploring churches that was my experience with the Catholic Church I visted. Yet it wasn’t that large a congregation. In my travels I hit two megachurches one had that overwelming feeling that you could just hide in it. The other welcomed you just like any small storefront church did.

Just saying for a new Christian to walk into a Catholic Church he will be disconnected, have no ideal what is going on and struggle not to look out of place. If he has been studying some he may know that he is not supposed to do everything that the crowd around him does.

For affiliation don’t call me an ex-Catholic, just a new Christian who passed through before finding a home church.

 

[eucharisteo]

When I was born again and begin exploring churches that was my experience with the Catholic Church I visted. Yet it wasn’t that large a congregation. In my travels I hit two megachurches one had that overwelming feeling that you could just hide in it. The other welcomed you just like any small storefront church did.

Just saying for a new Christian to walk into a Catholic Church he will be disconnected, have no ideal what is going on and struggle not to look out of place. If he has been studying some he may know that he is not supposed to do everything that the crowd around him does.

For affiliation don’t call me an ex-Catholic, just a new Christian who passed through before finding a home church.

Well you have a right to demand respect. That is true. And when I was a Christian only, I chastise anyone that even tried to refer to me as a fallen away Catholic. That may really be the truth but is not how I saw it. I saw it as I used to be Catholic and now I’m saved I was added to the Lord’s Church with my baptism [2nd go around as an adult believer]. Now after studying ancient history and the teachings of the Church and the ancient church fathers along with Catholic Theology I’ve discovered much of what others fails to teach me and what was not so easy to figure out on my own. We are a community of believers and need guidance just like Protestants required catechesis as well in their faith in order to know what they believe. But when you have a bunch of renegade theologians out ther to lure you away into their beliefs it’s very difficult to know truth when not everyone thinks so clearly. The secular world distracts us and lures us away. If we don’t have realistic ways to submerge our lives in the faith we can easily fall away if we run into heresy and lots of serious illicit behavior that comes from the clergy and laity. That’s what caught up to me. You can blame it on pride…or what I believe now to be self-preservation. The clergy and laity were extremely irregular and confusing with mixed up beliefs, sometimes accepting Protestant theologies to explain their rational. But as far as the Church goes, you will always be Catholic because an indelible mark has been placed on your soul marking you as a baptized Catholic. That mark can not be washed away or removed even if you rejected Christ. Your soul is in jeapardy as the Church teaches. However, under current understanding it is considered plausible that because of concupicence you may not be found culpable for your action of leaving the Church. If you really want to break you would be required to produce and submit a letter of defection stating clearly that you to not accept the Catholic Churches teachings. That would release you from being Catholic and then you would be considered Protestant or non-Catholic Christian. If you ran off to be a Muslim, then you would be apostate. The Church shys away from calling certain people heretics because of political correctness these days. But a heretic is one that knows the truth yet still turns from it anyway inspite of the truth being so clearly understood. We don’t know if you are a heretic. Only 2 people know that, GOd and you. I cam back home 2 years ago after learning the things I discovered. I knew that the Church was One Holy Catholic and Apostolic but the dogmas really put me on edge. After reading scripture over many years I came to ask the right but obviouis questions. To whom did Christ leave His church? From that I asked how do we know which books belong in the bible? The more I studied the more disturbed I got. It even made me angry. I hated the thought of admitting I was wrong because I had been hurt so deeply prior to leaving. But once I admitted that if Christ left the Church to the apostles and they left it to others that followed him then how can I say it is not the true Church? It doesn’t follow. The truth is that the early Church taught and practice what you visibly see in the Orhtodox and Catholic Church. It came from several strains so to speak of early Church. The early Christians were never anything like the mega gospel churches. That’s a modern heresy that is not orthodox Christianity. I love those praise worships too, but it is not the true worship as you see in the Mass and the Divine Liturgy. The problem with most Protestant churches is that they do not truly engage in historical study. They, like in the scriptures, tend to skp to the parts they agree with and overlook the parts that dispute or put their beliefs in conflct.

This is just my 2 cents. My entire fundamental evangelical family is now …Catholic. Part of the true Chruch in the fullness of Christ. We have the sacraments at our fingertips now. We have Christ in the Eucharist. Read my signature and locate the document written by Ignatius of Antioch. Learn who he was.

 

[kotek]

I haven’t “left” yet but I am seriously considering it. The reasons are doctrinal. I have been struggling with certain Dogmas the Catholic Church teaches for two years, and I have studied them from all perspectives, Roman Catholic, Protestant, Secular, and even Eastern Orthodox. I have read a good many Catholic Apologists, listened to lectures, debates, read Church history, early Church fathers, etc. and struggled and wrestled with the Dogmas in question and simply cannot in good conscience and good faith accept them. It hasn’t been easy and this is a VERY difficult decision for me. If I stayed in the Catholic Church and just simply did not accept those Dogmas it would be very difficult for me.

On the Roman Catholic side I simply cannot accept the following:

1. Papal Primacy and Jurisdiction
2. Papal Infallibility
3. Salvation by Faith plus good works IE the Council of Trent and its Canons are Semi-Pelagian.
4. Purgatory. The Dogma of Purgatory says that ultimately Christ’s Sacrificial Death wasn’t sufficient to cleanse and purge us of our sins. The fact that we have to “expiate” and suffer for our sins in Purgatory insults Jesus passion, death and Bloodshedding on the Cross.
5. Marian Dogmas. The Catholic Church has gone too far with Mary to the point that in many ways Mary has either been given an equal footing with Jesus or for many has replaced Jesus with Mary.

On the non-Roman Catholic side I accept the following:

1. Holy Scripture contains all things necessary to salvation: so that whatsoever is not read therein, nor may be proved thereby, is not to be required of any man, that it should be believed as an article of the Faith, or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation. In the name of the Holy Scripture we do understand those canonical Books of the Old and New Testament, of whose authority was never any doubt in the Church.

2.Those whom God effectually calleth He also freely justifieth;not by infusing righteousness into them, but by pardoning their sins, and by accounting and accepting their persons as righteous: not for anything wrought in them, or done by them, but for Christ’s sake alone: nor by imputing faith itself, the act of believing, or any
other evangelical obedience, to them as their righteousness; but by imputing the obedience and satisfaction of Christ unto them, they receiving and resting on Him and His righteousness, by faith: which faith they have not of themselves; it is the gift of God.Faith, thus receiving and resting on Christ and His righteousness, is the alone instrument of justification; yet is it not alone in the person justified, but is ever accompanied with all other saving graces, and is no dead faith, but worketh by love.

So if I accept the above two items I cannot remain in the Catholic Church. I will more than likely be going to an Episcopal Church near me which is no longer affiliated with the Mainline American Episcopal Church but is now under an orthodox Anglican Archbishop of the Anglican Communion (the Anglican Primate of Rwanda) who is aligned with GAFCON and the orthodox Anglican Forward in Faith. Also there is also a parish of the Reformed Episcopal Church close to me as well. I wish I could stay in the Catholic Church, but believing what I believe it doesn’t seem possible. I haven’t decide what to do yet.

 

[cathopologist]

There, I have told you more than I had originally intended to state here. I harbour no ill will toward the Catholic church, it was an environment that enabled me to grow as a Christian and I am grateful for that. I still have many family and friends who are in the Catholic church under the Pope and, as I have stated elsewhere, I raised three children (now adults) in the church and buried both my parents in the church. I am not anxious over their salvation because of their religious affiliation alone, it has served them well and the rest is up to them.

Michael, i thank you for your testimony and i do understand where you are coming from - or at least i try to. I have alot of respect for the Orthodox church and God knows the number of times i have reiterated that. As for our current issues, I am no pope, nor am i a patriarch, but do sincerely hope both the Catholic Church and the Orthodox churches can come to a compromise and re-unite once more, hopefully within my lifetime. I pray for our unification everytime i attend Mass and i ask you to pray with me for this to become a reality.

 

[racing59]

Well you have a right to demand respect. That is true. And when I was a Christian only, I chastise anyone that even tried to refer to me as a fallen away Catholic. That may really be the truth but is not how I saw it. I saw it as I used to be Catholic and now I’m saved I was added to the Lord’s Church with my baptism [2nd go around as an adult believer]. Now after studying ancient history and the teachings of the Church and the ancient church fathers along with Catholic Theology I’ve discovered much of what others fails to teach me and what was not so easy to figure out on my own. We are a community of believers and need guidance just like Protestants required catechesis as well in their faith in order to know what they believe. But when you have a bunch of renegade theologians out ther to lure you away into their beliefs it’s very difficult to know truth when not everyone thinks so clearly. The secular world distracts us and lures us away. If we don’t have realistic ways to submerge our lives in the faith we can easily fall away if we run into heresy and lots of serious illicit behavior that comes from the clergy and laity. That’s what caught up to me. You can blame it on pride…or what I believe now to be self-preservation. The clergy and laity were extremely irregular and confusing with mixed up beliefs, sometimes accepting Protestant theologies to explain their rational. But as far as the Church goes, you will always be Catholic because an indelible mark has been placed on your soul marking you as a baptized Catholic. That mark can not be washed away or removed even if you rejected Christ. Your soul is in jeapardy as the Church teaches. However, under current understanding it is considered plausible that because of concupicence you may not be found culpable for your action of leaving the Church. If you really want to break you would be required to produce and submit a letter of defection stating clearly that you to not accept the Catholic Churches teachings. That would release you from being Catholic and then you would be considered Protestant or non-Catholic Christian. If you ran off to be a Muslim, then you would be apostate. The Church shys away from calling certain people heretics because of political correctness these days. But a heretic is one that knows the truth yet still turns from it anyway inspite of the truth being so clearly understood. We don’t know if you are a heretic. Only 2 people know that, GOd and you. I cam back home 2 years ago after learning the things I discovered. I knew that the Church was One Holy Catholic and Apostolic but the dogmas really put me on edge. After reading scripture over many years I came to ask the right but obviouis questions. To whom did Christ leave His church? From that I asked how do we know which books belong in the bible? The more I studied the more disturbed I got. It even made me angry. I hated the thought of admitting I was wrong because I had been hurt so deeply prior to leaving. But once I admitted that if Christ left the Church to the apostles and they left it to others that followed him then how can I say it is not the true Church? It doesn’t follow. The truth is that the early Church taught and practice what you visibly see in the Orhtodox and Catholic Church. It came from several strains so to speak of early Church. The early Christians were never anything like the mega gospel churches. That’s a modern heresy that is not orthodox Christianity. I love those praise worships too, but it is not the true worship as you see in the Mass and the Divine Liturgy. The problem with most Protestant churches is that they do not truly engage in historical study. They, like in the scriptures, tend to skp to the parts they agree with and overlook the parts that dispute or put their beliefs in conflct.

.

This is a typical Roman Catholic response to people searching for truth ( No disrespect intended). I have study Roman Catholic dogmas and doctrines, the Early Fathers of the Church, and was even an Apologist for the faith,but now I am a heretic going to hell because I question the leadership in the Church who were not following true Church teachings. Jesus gave authority to all the apostles on binding and loosing. The Byzantines and Eastern Orthodox Churches got Apostolic succession from Andrew. How many other churches had Apostolic succession in other parts of the world from other Apostles? Yet these Churches were treated second class to the Roman Catholic Church because of the Chair of Peter. The excuse has always been its the people in the Catholic Church and not the church itself. Well may-be if some one listened to Martin Luther’ complaints and the Greek Orthodox Church there would not be all this division. Church is suppose to be of One accord, yet when some one comes forward to lovingly teach truth, they are persecuted, then exiled. I have great respect for all Christian Churches. Ancient Israel depended on man instead of God that is why it fell, the Temple was destroyed, and eventually the priesthood, because it had become corrupt. I found what happens in the Old Testament, happens again in the New Testament.
I don’t think Jesus Christ is going to send me to hell for searching for the full truth. The CCC I was told can only be interpreted by a priest. Yet these same priest reject the Mass in Heaven ! I consider myself a Universal Christian of all Christian Churches, that is the term Ignatus of Antioch used, “Universal”. To be of one accord is to be truely universal that is all inclusive. A hand does not say to the foot I don’t need you!

 

[adstrinity]

coughstayontopiccough

 

[Sideline]

Looking back at my time as a Catholic, I’m not sure I ever*** really *** believed in it. I believed in God. I loved the tradition. I adored the ritual. But the Eucharist, Mary, and the Pope I could easily have done without.

Since I didn’t really believe, I was much more sensitive to the way people acted. Their lack of charity, their love of imposing rules without compassion, their willingness to judge others without owning to mistakes themselves.

Some of the most hyper-critical and judgemental people I have ever met were Catholic. (I recently realized that I’ve never been physically assaulted by anyone that wasn’t a Catholic, but that’s beside the point.) The worst part is that they didn’t seem to care about their faith either. Oh sure, they never missed a mass, and loved quoting the rules, but they didn’t seem to have any interest in God at all. It was like they belonged to a club. They paid their dues, they followed the rules, they attended the meetings, but once they walked out the door, that was it.

It was that, and the fact that God was entirely absent in my life. If God loved me, then I’d hate to see what it was like being abandoned.

It was hard. Being Catholic was the only thing I had ever been, and leaving it behind has left a hole in my life that nothing else has filled.

But now I don’t believe any of it, so there wouldn’t be any point in going back even if I chose to.

 

[eucharisteo]

This is a typical Roman Catholic response to people searching for truth ( No disrespect intended). I have study Roman Catholic dogmas and doctrines, the Early Fathers of the Church, and was even an Apologist for the faith,but now I am a heretic going to hell because I question the leadership in the Church who were not following true Church teachings. Jesus gave authority to all the apostles on binding and loosing. The Byzantines and Eastern Orthodox Churches got Apostolic succession from Andrew. How many other churches had Apostolic succession in other parts of the world from other Apostles? Yet these Churches were treated second class to the Roman Catholic Church because of the Chair of Peter. The excuse has always been its the people in the Catholic Church and not the church itself. Well may-be if some one listened to Martin Luther’ complaints and the Greek Orthodox Church there would not be all this division. Church is suppose to be of One accord, yet when some one comes forward to lovingly teach truth, they are persecuted, then exiled. I have great respect for all Christian Churches. Ancient Israel depended on man instead of God that is why it fell, the Temple was destroyed, and eventually the priesthood, because it had become corrupt. I found what happens in the Old Testament, happens again in the New Testament.
I don’t think Jesus Christ is going to send me to hell for searching for the full truth. The CCC I was told can only be interpreted by a priest. Yet these same priest reject the Mass in Heaven ! I consider myself a Universal Christian of all Christian Churches, that is the term Ignatus of Antioch used, “Universal”. To be of one accord is to be truely universal that is all inclusive. A hand does not say to the foot I don’t need you!

And I don’t necessarily believe you are going to burn in hell either. My script was from my own experience. My spiritual director made a pass at me. Turns out that our vocation director was recruiting homosexual seminarians and potential victims… young men he thought they might be able to coerce to the dark side. I’m appauled at all the heresy. But each time I study ancient history it is plainly evident that the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church is there and present. Once you’ve been around the block as much as I have, you might come to understand the falacy of solo scriptura and why we need the Church authority in spite of their faults as people. I’m angry stilll. I came back home kicking and screaming. I actually wanted to convert to the Eastern Orthodox Church. I studied the Greek Orthodox History and such on my journey. When I finally conceded I was totally humilitated to the point of absolute terror. I hated returning to the Catholic Church, yet at the same time I was relieved. I was on my way to becoming a preacher for the church of Christ. This led me to asking many questions that I never had learned as you seem to have clearly known as an apologist. Are you sure it’s not pride getting in the way? What was your stumbling block? You may feel justified in defecting. I can’t say I blame you because I did too. I just feel lucky that I found my way back home.

 

[RobHom]

After hearing some of you complain about the Church and the people you have dealt with and encountered… I’m beginning to believe that I live in a 4th or 5th dimension on the planet Zorg.

I have never encountered those things or people, but then again I pay little attention to small people who play games, and I don’t look to the Church to provide me with “community” or smarmy fellowship activities. I go to Mass to worship God…not mingle with the masses. I guess I’ve been blessed with the ability to not have to worry about my fellow man featherbedding my life for me…and I’ve been really fortunate to have attended Mass in Parishes where the Priests and Nuns were truly Catholic.

Yes, I’ve known a few “judgmental Catholics”…but then again, most of the judgmental people I have known weren’t. I don’t suffer fools, and I place judgmental people in that category…so I don’t pay them much mind. No more attention than a coyote howling in the night…

 

[racing59]

After hearing some of you complain about the Church and the people you have dealt with and encountered… I’m beginning to believe that I live in a 4th or 5th dimension on the planet Zorg.

I have never encountered those things or people, but then again I pay little attention to small people who play games, and I don’t look to the Church to provide me with “community” or smarmy fellowship activities. I go to Mass to worship God…not mingle with the masses. I guess I’ve been blessed with the ability to not have to worry about my fellow man featherbedding my life for me…and I’ve been really fortunate to have attended Mass in Parishes where the Priests and Nuns were truly Catholic.

Yes, I’ve known a few “judgmental Catholics”…but then again, most of the judgmental people I have known weren’t. I don’t suffer fools, and I place judgmental people in that category…so I don’t pay them much mind. No more attention than a coyote howling in the night…

Robhorn you amaze me in the fact people are poring out their experiences and you discredit them. So typical of the way a majority of Catholics are. People have been hurt and unlike Jesus you dis-guard them much like the pharisees in the Bible. As far as Mass, the last one I went to I couldn’t even pray every -one was talking , goofing off, and distracting . People are not here to bash the Catholic Church as you seem to think, a lot are sharing their pain and searching for real truth through the Holy Spirit’s guidance, yet you dismiss them.

 

[RobHom]

Robhorn you amaze me in the fact people are poring out their experiences and you discredit them.

I “discredit” no-one, no more than I judge anyone. I question veracity, and note that I find it very difficult to believe what some are saying…as I have never encountered these things.

So typical of the way a majority of Catholics are.

Speaking of being “judgmental”… I’m beginning to seriously doubt your veracity…

People have been hurt and unlike Jesus you dis-guard them much like the pharisees in the Bible.

I “discard” no-one, anymore than I judge anyone. Nor do I attempt to bandy about ad hominems.

As far as Mass, the last one I went to I couldn’t even pray every -one was talking , goofing off, and distracting .

Sounds more like you were in an airport… But if that were even true, then why did you not go to another Parish?

People are not here to bash the Catholic Church as you seem to think

Could have fooled me. Seems there are an awful lot of people who come here to do just that…you’ve been on a roll tonight. Its not what I “think”… its what I “see”.

, a lot are sharing their pain and searching for real truth through the Holy Spirit’s guidance, yet you dismiss them.

Lets see, they denigrate the Church and its Clergy, as you have, and yet they come to a Catholic website…(a site where people come with questions about Catholicism or to communicate with other Catholics or persons of other faiths in a friendly manner)… and they “seek the truth”? Come now.

I dismiss no-one, otherwise I would have dismissed you long ago.

 

[RobHom]

Good night all!! I have a very busy day tomorrow!!

May the Peace of God be with you and yours!!

 

[eucharisteo]

Robhorn you amaze me in the fact people are poring out their experiences and you discredit them. So typical of the way a majority of Catholics are. People have been hurt and unlike Jesus you dis-guard them much like the pharisees in the Bible. As far as Mass, the last one I went to I couldn’t even pray every -one was talking , goofing off, and distracting . People are not here to bash the Catholic Church as you seem to think, a lot are sharing their pain and searching for real truth through the Holy Spirit’s guidance, yet you dismiss them.

Dont’ you mean a majority of the way Christians are? This is not explicity a Catholic fault. We all suffer from concupicense whether you belive it or not. Sin entered the world as a result of the sin of Adam and Eve. My bible says that we have ALL fallen short of the glory of God.

 

[eucharisteo]

I “discredit” no-one, no more than I judge anyone. I question veracity, and note that I find it very difficult to believe what some are saying…as I have never encountered these things.

Speaking of being “judgmental”… I’m beginning to seriously doubt your veracity…

I “discard” no-one, anymore than I judge anyone. Nor do I attempt to bandy about ad hominems.

Sounds more like you were in an airport… But if that were even true, then why did you not go to another Parish?

Could have fooled me. Seems there are an awful lot of people who come here to do just that…you’ve been on a roll tonight. Its not what I “think”… its what I “see”.

Lets see, they denigrate the Church and its Clergy, as you have, and yet they come to a Catholic website…(a site where people come with questions about Catholicism or to communicate with other Catholics or persons of other faiths in a friendly manner)… and they “seek the truth”? Come now.

I dismiss no-one, otherwise I would have dismissed you long ago.

Did you grow up in a vacuum? I’m a former seminarian and have experience many very bad things in the 70’s and 80’s. I see some even today. I left and came back after realize my errors. But it wasn’t without bashing Catholics first. This is good for them to let it out. Lash out all you want. I get it…I understand…even if you still don’t agree with me or the Catholic Church. I feel the pain too. I didn’t grow up in a vacuum.

 

[Sideline]

I “discard” no-one, anymore than I judge anyone. Nor do I attempt to bandy about ad hominems.

No, especially not “small people who play games” or people who “look to the Church to provide (them) with ‘community’ or smarmy fellowship activities”. I’m sure that you see people seeking this “community” and these “smarmy fellowship activities” as your equal. After all, these people just haven’t been blessed with the “ability to not have to worry about (their) fellow man featherbedding (their lives) for them.” And just because you “don’t suffer fools” doesn’t mean that you would do something so judgemental as to call someone (except of course judgemental people) a fool. That would be judgemental.

This thread, in many ways, exemplifies the problem I had with being a Catholic. I was surrounded by people who felt that their loyalty to this club was more important than being a member of the human race. It wasn’t just that they were judgemental, but they saw themselves as being superior to others for having it. Not that they would even admit to being judgemental. (Don’t people know what that word means?)

Catholics certainly aren’t the only judgemental people in the world.*** I’m*** judgemental. I’m very judgemental. The difference appears to be that I find this particular trait in myself a fault. Some Catholics don’t seem to think it is a fault at all.

This thread also exemplifies the cliquishness of Catholicism. If you want a Catholic to see red, just insult his club. It doesn’t matter if it is a totally valid criticism. All that matters is defending the club. I could never get that into defending Catholicism.

I never said that Catholics were worse than other people. I didn’t even say that Catholics were the most judgemental. I did say that some of the worst people I ***personally *** have met were Catholic.

 

[fbl9]

This thread also exemplifies the cliquishness of Catholicism. If you want a Catholic to see red, just insult his club. It doesn’t matter if it is a totally valid criticism. All that matters is defending the club. I could never get that into defending Catholicism.

I never said that Catholics were worse than other people. I didn’t even say that Catholics were the most judgemental. I did say that some of the worst people I ***personally *** have met were Catholic.

ok let’s flip it around: you and your church is that of the antichrist…some of the most arrogant people i have met where not catholic…chew on this for awhile and pm me,and not take this thread off any more then it has…

 

[steve_b]

I find this thread fasinating, but in my experence I don’t think people really care why I left the Catholic Church. I mean no dis-respect to Catholics, but I can give about 1000 reasons why I left. Once again no dis-respect intended. I came back into the Catholic Church after being a Baptist assosiate pastor. My wife converted to the faith. I tought Bible studies in 2 parishes. I had study Apologetics and Salvation History from Scott Hahn. The resistance and persecution I got from liberal priest was incredible. They rejected Apologetics, the Mass in Heaven, and Salvation history. This wasn’t one priest, but everyone I came across. They seemed more intrested in the politics in running a corperation than the true teachings of the Church. I’ve watched them squash Charismatic prayer groups and anything their liberal minds did not agree with. The straw that broke the camels back is when my own cousin, a Catholic priest, came to my saintly mothers funeral and walk around like a pumpus jerk ,telling everyone how they were going to hell! I found no support system in the Catholic Church. For priest to be leaders in the Church and be more intrested in a homosexual convention than Catholic Family Confrence did it for me. To reject the Mass in heaven and the teachings of the early Church I couldn’t stomach it any longer. Like I said I found no support in the Catholic Church. I could rambel on about many other things, but what would be the point! I found no one seemed to care. Any ways there is my reason for leaving.

I’m curious, given the points you make in your post, why would your cousin be condemning people at you mom’s funeral?

 

[racing59]

I’m curious, given the points you make in your post, why would your cousin be condemning people at you mom’s funeral?

My cousin ( a Catholic priest) was into Scapula’s, Saint’s, and put these things, in my opinion , more than going to Jesus Christ. My mom had lost faith in the Catholic Church (see post on other denominations going to hell) because of what happened to our family. He told the family they were going to hell at my mom’s funeral, because no one prays the rosary or to Saints, or goes to Catholic Mass. My dad still had my mom’s funeral in a Catholic Church My cousin flew in from the east coast and immediate started on me for studying under Dr. Scott Hahn claiming he was a protestant theologian not Catholic. I have gotten that response from many other priest also.

 

[steve_b]

My cousin ( a Catholic priest) was into Scapula’s, Saint’s, and put these things, in my opinion , more than going to Jesus Christ.

With all due respect, I think you’re way overgeneralizing. The sacraments are ALL Christ centered.

rac:

My mom had lost faith in the Catholic Church (see post on other denominations going to hell) because of what happened to our family.

I’ve read your posts. It looks like post #26 is the crux of the matter, true?

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4398413&postcount=19
http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4398495&postcount=22
http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4398723&postcount=26 *********
http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4405300&postcount=30

I’m so sorry that happened. It shouldn’t happen to ANYONE. It’s a horrible crime. But you should have gone to the bishop. That’s the proper chain of command. If the bishop does nothing then you go higher. Because this is a criminal matter, the police would/should have gotten involved also.

rac:

He told the family they were going to hell at my mom’s funeral, because no one prays the rosary or to Saints, or goes to Catholic Mass.

My dad still had my mom’s funeral in a Catholic Church My cousin flew in from the east coast and immediate started on me for studying under Dr. Scott Hahn claiming he was a protestant theologian not Catholic. I have gotten that response from many other priest also.

Aqain, with all due respect, if you studied at Franciscan university under Scott Hahn, there seems to be a characterization of your cousin here in this post that doesn’t quite fit…

And surely you know that the Church is NOT the one to condemn anyone to hell. But if you look up dissent/division in the NT scripture depending on the translation you use, you will find how serious a sin that is. Example [Gal 5:19…] As Paul says, if people dissent/divide from the Church, and continue in that sin they won’t inherit heaven. Now how do YOU interpret that?

 

[racing59]

With all due respect, I think you’re way overgeneralizing. The sacraments are ALL Christ centered.

I’ve read your posts. It looks like post #26 is the crux of the matter, true?

I’m so sorry that happened. It shouldn’t happen to ANYONE. It’s a horrible crime. But you should have gone to the bishop. That’s the proper chain of command. If the bishop does nothing then you go higher. Because this is a criminal matter, the police would/should have gotten involved also.

Aqain, with all due respect, if you studied at Franciscan university under Scott Hahn, there seems to be a characterization of your cousin here in this post that doesn’t quite fit…

And surely you know that the Church is NOT the one to condemn anyone to hell. But if you look up dissent/division in the NT scripture depending on the translation you use, you will find how serious a sin that is. Example [Gal 5:19…] As Paul says, if people dissent/divide from the Church, and continue in that sin they won’t inherit heaven. Now how do YOU interpret that?

You ask me what happened and I told you. I get tired of trying to explain everything in fine detail. 1) I never said my cousin was talking about Sacraments. It had more to do with a sect on the East coast that put,( In my opinion) medals, Scapula’s, and Saint’s like good luck charms, praying to them more than Jesus Christ. 2) I can tell you right now there are clergy totally against what Scott Hahn teaches! You don’t have to believe me go study and try teaching a Bible Study in Los Angeles County, I did. 3) We did go to the police about our daughter being touched, it was her word against his. Police would not do any thing unless there was physical evidence !!! We even went through Child services and nothing came of it!!! 4) Because my family left the Catholic Church ( At my Saintly mother’s funeral) My cousin , a Catholic priest, said the family forfeits salvation and were going to Hell !!! I have had other Catholic priest and people I will not name, say the same thing! Many other things happened that I do not have the time or patients to write about, my family has tried to heal from these things. 5) After expending all my energy on these things I figure the response from Bishops would be about what I got from you and a few others on this post. You can’t fight politics and you can’t beat City Hall !