Former Catholics...

[MarcoPolo]

I left the church because the Bible is not THE authority in the Catholic church; it is one of three where all are equal. I believe that in this scenario, it would be very possible to have conflicts of truth without a clear statement of authority being able to be made.

What about when the Bible says the Church is the pillar of truth…does it contradict itself? Then there’s the whole dilemma of how we got the Bible…

 

[Sixtus]

What about when the Bible says the Church is the pillar of truth…does it contradict itself? Then there’s the whole dilemma of how we got the Bible…

The Scriptures are the property of the Church whose scriptures they are

In a similar veign, as the eminent apologist Jim Licoudis points out: ‘You cannot use the Scriptures against the Church whose Scriptures they are!’

 

[BrewMax]

What about when the Bible says the Church is the pillar of truth…does it contradict itself? Then there’s the whole dilemma of how we got the Bible…

Well, I know what Catholics say about where we get the Bible. But I also know how much controversey and debate there is about that as well.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Well, I know what Catholics say about where we get the Bible. But I also know how much controversey and debate there is about that as well.

This is true, but that doesn’t make it any less true that the Catholic Church gave us the Bible. So how do you understand the passage that says the Church is the pillar of truth?

 

[BrewMax]

This is true, but that doesn’t make it any less true that the Catholic Church gave us the Bible. So how do you understand the passage that says the Church is the pillar of truth?

Well, it really does make perfect sense when we see that it was Christ who started the church. Why have the church if it isn’t the pillar of truth? (rhetorical question).

 

[MarcoPolo]

Well, it really does make perfect sense when we see that it was Christ who started the church.

We certainly agree there.

 

[kms123]

Then, I didn’t word that as well as I’d hoped. I’ll restate: I tried to shy away from feelings and focus more on the fact that things just don’t make logical sense to me. Logic is the crux of the problems, not feelings. Despite years of trying to do so, the pieces don’t logically fit like they should. I’ve tried to say a lot of “IMO”, and say that “to me things look like X”, because I don’t want people to see my post as passing judgment on them, or as saying that all people should see things as I do. I’m referring to my sense of logic in all this, not my feelings. I can’t force myself to believe something is true that doesn’t make sense. Really, I’ve only scratched the surface of the problems that I have with religion. I’ve written the prior posts as summarized narratives of my journey, not as debates. My goal isn’t to attack or convert anyone, it is to answer the OP and give people a little more insight as to what its like on the other side. There’s a lot of people who assume that non-Catholics/non-theists have made rash decisions, that they are selfish and don’t want to be tied down by morals, etc. I’ve tried to put the capitals on God and Him to show respect to those on the board, and ask for some in return.

Thanks, and best wishes to you as well.

Does anyone know if GK Chesterton addresses this problem of logic? Maybe I am thinking of someone else.

I have not read any of his writings but heard if you read only one it should be Orthodoxy. It would be great if someone could elaborate about this particular writing. Chesterton became Catholic 14 years after writing Orthodoxy.

 

[BrewMax]

Well, it really does make perfect sense when we see that it was Christ who started the church. Why have the church if it isn’t the pillar of truth? (rhetorical question).

But by the same token, why have the Bible if we are going to trump it in authority?

 

[Theinvisibleman]

I’m going to leave the church. I’m 18. I don’t have faith, and I disagree with the teachings. Well, to be honest I think you can be a catholic and agnostic. Agnostic means you arent sure or that there is no proof either way. Some may see it as taking no side, or staying with the church “just in case”.

That however, will not be the deciding factor, but the other reason I mentioned was: teachings.

I disagree with the church on homosexualality and contraception. Oddly, enough I’m against abortion, but for secular reasons mostly. Allthough I think me and catholics can agree that its gross and perverted either way.

 

[brian231]

Why did you leave the Church? I am curious because I often hear of people that have a bad experience occur in the Church OR in their personal lives then they either get much closer to the Church or they turn away.

What is your story?

I was born and raised catholic. I did the catechism thing and I went to church up until I received my first communion. I forget how old I was…10-12 I think. Then my mom stopped dragging me and my brother to church and just said we could decide on our own when we got older whether we wanted anything to do with the church or not.

When I turned 28 I thought about going back to church so I decided to buy a Bible and actually read and studied it. I quickly realized what the catholic church taught was not in the Bible. Then in desperation I decided to get a catholic study Bible which had the so-called scriptual support for certain doctrines and realized that it was a major misinterpretation of scripture so I’ve never returned to church and probably never will. I keep saying I’m going to attend a saturday evening service but I never go. I’ve been surfing these forums trying to get myself to give the catholic church another try out of respect for my grandfather(a devout catholic) but I just don’t believe most of what the church teaches so it’s hard to motivate myself to go. I’ve visited a united methodist church 3 times but I didn’t think it was for me so I remain unchurched.

 

[Jordan_Francis]

Theinvisibleman

I’m going to leave the church. I’m 18. I don’t have faith, and I disagree with the teachings. Well, to be honest I think you can be a catholic and agnostic. Agnostic means you arent sure or that there is no proof either way. Some may see it as taking no side, or staying with the church “just in case”.

That however, will not be the deciding factor, but the other reason I mentioned was: teachings.

I disagree with the church on homosexualality and contraception. Oddly, enough I’m against abortion, but for secular reasons mostly. Allthough I think me and catholics can agree that its gross and perverted either way.

When I was about 15 I left the Church. Now 19, I have returned and found that the Church is so much more than what I had conceived of at a younger age.

To this day I still have many questions regarding certain aspects of Church teaching and doctrine, especially pertaining to contraception and homosexuality.

My honest advice is that this** is no reason to leave the Church**. **It is all the more reason to truly investigate the Church **and try to come to a fuller understanding. One thing I have learned is that the reasoning behind a Church teaching is not always self-evident. If we dig behind a teaching, read the relevant encyclicals, Church documents and theologians we find that these issues are carefully considered by Church authority. It has never been a matter of “blindly accepting” something, for me at least, but a matter of carefully considering the detailed and profound rational offered by the Church.

 

[Jordan_Francis]

Brian231
When I turned 28 I thought about going back to church so I decided to buy a Bible and actually read and studied it. I quickly realized what the catholic church taught was not in the Bible. Then in desperation I decided to get a catholic study Bible which had the so-called scriptual support for certain doctrines and realized that it was a major misinterpretation of scripture so I’ve never returned to church and probably never will. I keep saying I’m going to attend a saturday evening service but I never go. I’ve been surfing these forums trying to get myself to give the catholic church another try out of respect for my grandfather(a devout catholic) but I just don’t believe most of what the church teaches so it’s hard to motivate myself to go. I’ve visited a united methodist church 3 times but I didn’t think it was for me so I remain unchurched.

Quickly realized what the Catholic Church teaches is not in the Bible? It’s important to not study Catholicism without proper Catholic guidance. For example, if you go into such a study assuming that you are going to find descriptions of the Mass, the Assumption of the Virgin Mary, orders of the Priesthood, the modern confessional ect. in scripture then one will make that kind of conclusion.

To understand the Church one needs to have a proper understanding of the twin fountains of Truth; Scripture and Tradition. The so called “non-scriptural” elements of Catholicism need to be looked at in light of the early Christian community. In short, we need to look at Church history in order to come to a real critical understanding of the Church.

The Holy Catholic Church is the oldest and original Christian Church. It is the Body of Christ, and as an organic, human and divine institution we should hardly hope it to be stagnant. It grows and evolves and has done so within the same framework since Penetecost.

 

[Emily_CA]

What about when the Bible says the Church is the pillar of truth…does it contradict itself? Then there’s the whole dilemma of how we got the Bible…

The Church is the body of Christ, not the Catholic Church. (Colossians 1:24) How we got the Bible is not a dilemma, its God’s very Word. (2 Timothy 3:16)

 

[Jordan_Francis]

The Catholic Church is “the Church” of scripture. It exists in unbroken lineage from Apostolic times.

 

[Emily_CA]

The Scriptures are the property of the Church whose scriptures they are

In a similar veign, as the eminent apologist Jim Licoudis points out: ‘You cannot use the Scriptures against the Church whose Scriptures they are!’

I don’t know who Jim Licoudis is, but the Bible says, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (John 1:1) The Word is the Lord’s Word, not the property of man.

 

[geezerbob]

I don’t know who Jim Licoudis is, but the Bible says, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (John 1:1) The Word is the Lord’s Word, not the property of man.

The Word is Jesus Christ, not the Bible.

 

[qui_est_ce]

The Church is the body of Christ, not the Catholic Church. (Colossians 1:24) How we got the Bible is not a dilemma, its God’s very Word. (2 Timothy 3:16)

Yes, and out of all the “gospels” and literature that was out there at the time, who decided to put it all together. Did the manuscript just drop out of heaven?? Who decided 1400 years after the Council of Hippo, that James was “strawey” and removed the letter of James and Revelation (and then replaced because of the outcry) and OT books, the Apocrophia? Who kept the Bible alive during the dark ages when the Barbarians came and destroyed civilization?

When was the doctrine of Sola Scriptura defined? Certainly not in Catholicism.

There is only one Church, the Church established on earth by Jesus Christ. And the gates of Hell will not prevail against it.

Who started your church?

 

[Emily_CA]

Quickly realized what the Catholic Church teaches is not in the Bible? It’s important to not study Catholicism without proper Catholic guidance.

We don’t need a man to explain to us what the Bible says, that’s why Jesus gave us the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 1:8) The Bible says, “The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1 Corinthians 2:14)

The Holy Catholic Church is the oldest and original Christian Church.

The original church began when the disciples were born again through the power of the Holy Spirit and Jesus told them to witness “to the ends of the earth”. The “church” is the body of Christ, not a building.

“But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” (Acts 1:8)

It is the Body of Christ, and as an organic, human and divine institution we should hardly hope it to be stagnant.

The Bible says that the Body of Christ is every believer, not members of a man-made church.

“So in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others.” (Romans 12:5)

It grows and evolves and has done so within the same framework since Penetecost.

The Catholic Church grows and evolves but the Bible says that God never changes, and that the Word of God never changes.

“Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.” (James 1:17)

“The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God stands forever.” (Isaiah 40:8)

It doesn’t matter what church you go to, what matters is that you’re born again of the Holy Spirit. Jesus said, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.” (John 3:3)

"Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.’ " (John 3:5-7)

 

[Emily_CA]

The Catholic Church is “the Church” of scripture. It exists in unbroken lineage from Apostolic times.

Where in the Bible does it say that?

 

[Emily_CA]

The Word is Jesus Christ, not the Bible.

The Bible says, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” Yes, the Word is Jesus Christ, and the Bible is the Word of God. No, we don’t worship the Bible but we recognize, as the Bible is exceedingly clear, that the Bible is the infallible Word of God. (John 17:17)