Former Catholics...

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ruzz said:
About age 35 when I decided to figure this thing out called Christianity.

Went back to my parish and got bored of rituals and didn’t find Christ in my heart. Opened my bible and couldn’t figure out where these rituals came from. Learned about Christ and what He is about. Saw men in costumes telling me what to do. I didn’t see Christ acting like these men. The mass felt more like a ritual (stand up, sit down, kneel, walk up and take the wafer). It was so boring and lifeless. I wasn’t drawn to it at all. There was no happiness, only silence and somberness. Men of God didn’t act happy to be men of God.

Eventually (quite by accident) ended up in non-denom church. I didn’t know there were different kinds of churches, I though they were all the same. WOW! People were on fire for the Lord and actually walked the walk. They spoke of joy and what Christ had done in their lives.
The more I read scripture and the source of Catholic Traditions the more I ran away from that denomination. The more I read the NT, the more the RCC didn’t resemble what Christ and the Apostles were teaching. Infant baptism, Mary, Works, none of it made sense.

I found Christ in God’s Word not a building or a wafer. Sorry. That’s my story.

No, I didn’t have a bad experience with the RCC. It just didn’t lead me to seek Christ.
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ruzz,

Don’t say your sorry for sharing your story. It is interesting for me, someone who is coming into the catholic church, reading the thoughts of someone who is leaving the catholic church.

Funny thing is, I had just the opposite reaction to churches where people were on “fire”. And I am not ridiculing those churches in any way. I had been invited to more denominational and non-denominational christian churches than you can shake a stick at.

And I just couldn’t relax in the atmosphere where the congregation and church service are at a fever pitch. I DO realize they are experiencing the holy ghost, or holy spirit, but it just made me feel uncomfortable.

Guess we are passing each other at the door!. Take good care and follow your heart.
 
Emily_CA said:
We don’t need a man to explain to us what the Bible says, that’s why Jesus gave us the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 1:8) 🙂 🙂
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Then you will go further in Acts and explain this

Acts 8:27-39

Philip ran up and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and said, “Do you understand what you are reading?”
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He replied, “*How can I, unless someone instructs me?” So he invited Philip to get in and sit with him. *32
This was the scripture passage he was reading: “Like a sheep he was led to the slaughter, and as a lamb before its shearer is silent, so he opened not his mouth.
33
In (his) humiliation justice was denied him. Who will tell of his posterity? For his life is taken from the earth.”
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Then the eunuch said to Philip in reply, “I beg you, about whom is the prophet saying this? About himself, or about someone else?”
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Then Philip opened his mouth and, beginning with this scripture passage, he proclaimed Jesus to him.
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As they traveled along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “Look, there is water. What is to prevent my being baptized?”

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Then he ordered the chariot to stop, and Philip and the eunuch both went down into the water, and he baptized him.
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When they came out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away, and the eunuch saw him no more, but continued on his way rejoicing.

This is why the Holy Catholic Church of the Apostles is one, and there are 33,000+ other churches of me who have interpreted Scripture, under the influence of the Holy Spirit, which, if I believed in Protestantism, would be fractured into 33,000 pieces.
:yup:
 
Hey Emily,

Catholics completely agree that Jesus imparted the gift of the Holy Spirit. This gift, it has always been taught, was imparted to His community of believers; the Church. What Catholics believe more specifically is that this gift of the Spirit is not something for individuals to run around claiming posession to, this would make chaos and indeed it has deeply fragmented the Protestant church into thousands of competing factions all claiming the One Spirit.

The entire Church is guided by the Holy Spirit. The Pope and the Magesterium bring the body of the faithful to awareness of how this guidance can be discernible in human history.
The original church began when the disciples were born again through the power of the Holy Spirit and Jesus told them to witness “to the ends of the earth”.
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Again, you are not saying something that Catholics have not been saying for 2,000 years.
The “church” is the body of Christ, not a building
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Of course the Body of Christ is not a building! The Church is the the **sociological sign **of Christ’s enduring Presence on earth. The Body of Christ is not a building or a person or place, but it is made visible in places, persons and buildings. The Body of Christ is one, and therefore, its visible and perceivable manifestation must also be one.
The Catholic Church grows and evolves but the Bible says that God never changes, and that the Word of God never changes.
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The Word of God does not change in the Church. Yes, the Church evolves, but not all aspects of the Church have this freedom. This evolution always occurs within the same divinely instituted framework.

There’s no point in discussing being born again with Catholics. **Catholics are being born again everyday **in Christ through His Church.

The Church maintains a lineage that goes back into Apostolic times. To really appreciate this one has to look to the early Christian community and see what their self-concept was.

The Church is the pillar of truth. Note in Timothy where Paul writes to the community urging them to be obedient to the Bishop in Paul’s place. Read 1 Timothy 3, where Paul lays out the authority structure in the community so that the people might know how to be orderly:
Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that, 15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
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Jordan_Francis said:
Hey Emily,

Catholics completely agree that Jesus imparted the gift of the Holy Spirit. This gift, it has always been taught, was imparted to His community of believers; the Church. What Catholics believe more specifically is that this gift of the Spirit is not something for individuals to run around claiming posession to, this would make chaos and indeed it has deeply fragmented the Protestant church into thousands of competing factions all claiming the One Spirit.

The entire Church is guided by the Holy Spirit. The Pope and the Magesterium bring the body of the faithful to awareness of how this guidance can be discernible in human history.

Again, you are not saying something that Catholics have not been saying for 2,000 years.

The Church maintains a lineage that goes back into Apostolic times. To really appreciate this one has to look to the early Christian community and see what their self-concept was.

The Church is the pillar of truth. Note in Timothy where Paul writes to the community urging them to be obedient to the Bishop in Paul’s place. Read 1 Timothy 3, where Paul lays out the authority structure in the community so that the people might know how to be orderly:
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Jordan, you are AWESOME:thumbsup:
 
<<Basically, you are instructing me to do exactly what I already did. I came here, discussed Catholicism with Catholics for two years. Listened to EWTN, etc. Do you consider CAF, Catholic.com and EWTN to be good sources of Catholic information?

I have a religion, so I don’t think I will continue to spend a great deal of time pursuing someone else’s. My questions have been answered to my satisfaction, I have been provided with excellent resources by kind people here.

Contrary to what many Catholics believe, some people DO know what Catholicism really teaches, and still do not believe it.>>

Thats not possible. The Catholic Church is the church that Christ started, and he said “the gates of hell would not prevail” and “I will be with you always” and gave Peter the Keys. Therefore take any of your beliefs and if they do not match the Churches teaching it is you who must modify your beliefs. How Narcicistic to think you have thought of all of the angles. The evidence is overwhelming that there was never any other Christian Church estabolished, and any and all churches that started later have all been said to have left the Catholic church. Does that not tell you something, like gee, Christ started a church, it is the pillar and foundation of truth, I can go to it if my brother sins against me and if he does not listen to that church, he is to be excommunicated. What other church even claims to have the power to excommunicate infallibly, to the extent that the Catholic church does, the only church that even claims apostolic succesion to Peter, the Protos Apostle. Humility

Fulloftruth
 
People who leave the church remind me of teen agers who never grow up and blame there mom and dad or scociety for all of there problems. Leaving the church and claiming it does not line up with your beliefs, oh wise one, is like saying to the rest of the world " I don’t believe in gravity, you fools, see:thumbsup: " (jump) :eek: "aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh:eek: " splat:confused: who is the fool now?
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fulloftruth
 
Theinvisibleman said:
I’m going to leave the church. I’m 18. I don’t have faith, and I disagree with the teachings. Well, to be honest I think you can be a catholic and agnostic. Agnostic means you arent sure or that there is no proof either way. Some may see it as taking no side, or staying with the church “just in case”.

That however, will not be the deciding factor, but the other reason I mentioned was: teachings.

I disagree with the church on homosexualality and contraception. Oddly, enough I’m against abortion, but for secular reasons mostly. Allthough I think me and catholics can agree that its gross and perverted either way.
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What do you think is the Churches teaching on Homosexuality and Contraception, If I might ask?
 
fulloftruth said:
Thats not possible. The Catholic Church is the church that Christ started, and he said “the gates of hell would not prevail” and “I will be with you always” and gave Peter the Keys. Therefore take any of your beliefs and if they do not match the Churches teaching it is you who must modify your beliefs. How Narcicistic to think you have thought of all of the angles. The evidence is overwhelming that there was never any other Christian Church estabolished, and any and all churches that started later have all been said to have left the Catholic church. Does that not tell you something, like gee, Christ started a church, it is the pillar and foundation of truth, I can go to it if my brother sins against me and if he does not listen to that church, he is to be excommunicated. What other church even claims to have the power to excommunicate infallibly, to the extent that the Catholic church does, the only church that even claims apostolic succesion to Peter, the Protos Apostle. Humility

Fulloftruth
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People who leave the church remind me of teen agers who never grow up and blame there mom and dad or scociety for all of there problems. Leaving the church and claiming it does not line up with your beliefs, oh wise one, is like saying to the rest of the world " I don’t believe in gravity, you fools, see " (jump) "aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh " splat who is the fool now?
Submit Submit Submit
fulloftruth
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The majority of the WORLD is not Catholic, let alone Christian, so the evidence is not considered overwhelming to everyone. Making fun of those who do not believe the same as you is not the way to get people to “see the truth” of your faith. You do not get at the heart of the problem. Did you even take the time to read this thread, or did you just decide to make blanket accusations and put down others? What charitable purpose did you envision before posting in this thread?
 
fulloftruth said:
Thats not possible. The Catholic Church is the church that Christ started, and he said “the gates of hell would not prevail” and “I will be with you always” and gave Peter the Keys. Therefore take any of your beliefs and if they do not match the Churches teaching it is you who must modify your beliefs. How Narcicistic to think you have thought of all of the angles. The evidence is overwhelming that there was never any other Christian Church estabolished, and any and all churches that started later have all been said to have left the Catholic church. Does that not tell you something, like gee, Christ started a church, it is the pillar and foundation of truth, I can go to it if my brother sins against me and if he does not listen to that church, he is to be excommunicated. What other church even claims to have the power to excommunicate infallibly, to the extent that the Catholic church does, the only church that even claims apostolic succesion to Peter, the Protos Apostle. Humility

Fulloftruth
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I do not belong to a church that left the Catholic church, I am not a Christian, so whatever claims other churches make concerning power to teach or excommunicate are really not issues to me.

It is useful to stay aware that some people who leave Catholicism do not remain Christian.

Humility before the ultimate truth is something that is found in other faiths, as well. We may disagree on what Ultimate truth is, but not the humility issue. And our lack of agreement does nothing to change the nature of that Truth.

I accept that no matter how much time I have spent investigating Catholicism, I cannot know all of what it teaches. No one person, no matter how much time they devote to study could ever digest all of the writings, teachings, etc of the Catholic church.

But I have studied enough to know that I do not believe some things that the church teaches are critical and significant. And studying and pursuing those issues in depth has not altered my lack of belief.

It makes more sense to me to live the faith I do believe, rather than to spend my life studying one I do not. I am using the gift of faith that the Divine has instilled in me, rather than chasing after one it has not.That too, is an act of submission.
 
cheddarsox said:
I do not belong to a church that left the Catholic church, I am not a Christian, so whatever claims other churches make concerning power to teach or excommunicate are really not issues to me.
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Not a problem…but why are you here on a Catholic Forum, if you are not interested in Christianity? I have to believe you are trying to educate yourself. 😛
 
Emily_CA said:
The Church is the body of Christ, not the Catholic Church. (Colossians 1:24) How we got the Bible is not a dilemma, its God’s very Word. (2 Timothy 3:16)
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By all means, we believe non-Catholic Christians are part of the Church, but not in full communion. See Catechism paragraph 1271.

And 2 Timothy 3:16 doesn’t tell us where the Bible came from. Through whom did God work to identify which books were to be included? None of the individual authors identified which books were to be included. The answer is the Catholic Church did.
 
Emily_CA said:
The Bible says, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” Yes, the Word is Jesus Christ, and the Bible is the Word of God. No, we don’t worship the Bible but we recognize, as the Bible is exceedingly clear, that the Bible is the infallible Word of God. (John 17:17) 🙂
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Where does it say the Bible ALONE is the source of truth?

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours 👍

John 21:25
There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written. :yup:

Is John lying here? :eek:
 
qui_est_ce said:
2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours 👍
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that was in past tense. i dont think the rosary is part of what had been ‘taught’. 😃

i think its true though that the bible doesnt limit christians to past lessons. 🙂
 
Jordan_Francis said:
Quickly realized what the Catholic Church teaches is not in the Bible? It’s important to not study Catholicism without proper Catholic guidance. For example, if you go into such a study assuming that you are going to find descriptions of the Mass, the Assumption of the Virgin Mary, orders of the Priesthood, the modern confessional ect. in scripture then one will make that kind of conclusion.

To understand the Church one needs to have a proper understanding of the twin fountains of Truth; Scripture and Tradition. The so called “non-scriptural” elements of Catholicism need to be looked at in light of the early Christian community. In short, we need to look at Church history in order to come to a real critical understanding of the Church.

The Holy Catholic Church is the oldest and original Christian Church. It is the Body of Christ, and as an organic, human and divine institution we should hardly hope it to be stagnant. It grows and evolves and has done so within the same framework since Penetecost.
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Maybe I should’ve been more clear about what I have a problem with since I was awfully vague:

Purgatory
Idolatry
The papacy & peter being the first pope
Praying for the dead
Praying to saints and angels
The churches teachings on last judgment
The 7 sacraments
Position on contraception
Position on whether you can lose your salvation
Lent
Calling priests father
Mary supposedly being sinless
The assumption of mary
Transubstantiation
Celibacy for priests when peter was married
Being “born again”
Only catholics will be saved

I won’t get into such things as the 44-68 million murdered as a result of the papacy during the middle ages and other atrocities since it has nothing to do with current catholics or catholicism.
 
AgnosTheist said:
that was in past tense. i dont think the rosary is part of what had been ‘taught’. 😃

i think its true though that the bible doesnt limit christians to past lessons. 🙂
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I erred when I inferred that the Rosary is part of Tradition. I meant that the CC is Biblcal and used the Rosary as an example of how the CC promotes meditating on the Bible. Rosary’s mysteries are to help us meditate the life of Christ. If you can’t read, it’s a good way to remember the stories.🙂
 
brian231 said:
Maybe I should’ve been more clear about what I have a problem with since I was awfully vague:

Purgatory
Idolatry
The papacy & peter being the first pope
Praying for the dead
Praying to saints and angels
The churches teachings on last judgment
The 7 sacraments
Position on contraception
Position on whether you can lose your salvation
Lent
Calling priests father
Mary supposedly being sinless
The assumption of mary
Transubstantiation
Celibacy for priests when peter was married
Being “born again”
Only catholics will be saved
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An effective discussion will have to have ONE subject at a time. Which would you like to discuss first?
brian231 said:
I won’t get into such things as the 44-68 million murdered as a result of the papacy during the middle ages and other atrocities since it has nothing to do with current catholics or catholicism.
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Not to mention the killing of German peasants a because of Martin Luther. Or Hitler using Martin Luther’s writings to justify the killing of 6 million Jews.
 
brian231 said:
Maybe I should’ve been more clear about what I have a problem with since I was awfully vague:

Purgatory
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May I ask…since we are prone to sin here on earth, and not prone to sin in heaven…how do you suppose we are transformed after death?
 
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