Former Protestants: Do some Protestants worship the Bible as an Idol?

[Sixtus]

Maybe Catholics don’t love the Bible enough - that’s at least as possible as the position that Protestants love it too well

A child with only one teddy bear tends to revere, elevate and personify that one bear. But a child with several, tends to love them all but revere no single one of them

 

[Sixtus]

I don’t think it is legitimate. We don’t ask the Bible to protect us or heal our loved ones. We don’t bury a copy in our yard to make our house sell. We don’t lock one in the refrigerator and threaten it unless our husband finds a job. We don’t set one on the ailing washing machine in hopes that the old unit won’t break down.

It is legitimate to define “idolatry” and then show that a certain practice is or is not such, (although the definition is sure to be challenged). But it is not legitimate to say Protestants do with their Bibles what Catholics do with their images. It just isn’t so.

This is the most bizare that I have ever heard

It amazes me how there are folk who allegedly ‘know’ Catholics who do these things. I am well travelled. I also get around the diocese. I have met tens of thousands of Catholics in my life. I no not one who does such things.

This is really bizare. I think there is a wholesale misunderstanding or lack of knowledge of Catholic faith and worship.

 

[mayra_hart]

after jesus times there were no bibles to read, only oral tradition. now we have the bible but personally when it come to god there is always more than what is written. May the Sacred Heart of Jesus be Adored, Glorified, Loved & Preserved throughout the world, now & forever. Sacred Heart of Jesus, please pray for me. Saint Jude, Worker of Miracles, please pray for me. Saint Jude, Helper of the Hopeless, please pray for me. Amen."

 

[lak611]

I agree with JoeyWarren’s post.

In both Catholicism and Protestantism, there are those who worship what they shouldn’t worship. Many of us have seen this.

That doesn’t mean that their churches teach them to do this. I think it’s just a sin that they fall into, and need deliverance from.

I have confidence that the Holy Spirit will look at the hearts of these people, see (hopefully) that they are sincerely desiring to follow Jesus, and will convict them of their sin and help them to overcome it.

So many times in my life, I thought I was on the right track, saying or doing the “Christ-like” thing, only to discover, through the work of the Holy Spirt, that I was deep in sin. The Bible says that the Holy Spirit convicts of sin, righteousness, and judgement.

At the same time, I think discussions like this are good. Perhaps someone out there is reading and thinking, “Oh, my gosh! I guess I DO worship my Rosary” or “Uh-oh, I really am equating my KJV Bible with Jesus.” Hopefully the Holy Spirit will use this thread to convict people and help us all to examine our own “worship” practices.

Great post!

 

[Kevan]

I also get around the diocese. I have met tens of thousands of Catholics in my life. I no not one who does such things.

Sixtus, what I’ve described are facts. If they are unique, well, I guess I’ll have to accept it. But they are facts nonetheless.

The “search” function of this forum will take you to threads about the St. Joseph superstition where Catholics refer to it as common knowledge, as I’ve always considered it to be. I have a Catholic customer, a rich, world-travelled, well educated lady, who had a hard time selling her house. I asked her with a smile (she knows I’m a fundamentalist) “Did you bury an image of St. Joseph in the yard?” She shot back “Damn right I did!”

The other things are facts as well, things I’ve seen personally. If nobody elsewhere does them, then I misunderstand; but I’d need some more research before I conceded the point.

I’ll check around with some Catholic people and let them tell me what they’ve seen, then I’ll get back with the results. Meanwhile, maybe some readers of this thread would contribute their own testimonies of what they’ve seen or not seen.

 

[Cat]

The funny thing is, I don’t know any Catholics who bury statues of St. Joseph in the backyard to sell their house. But I know several Protestants–intelligent people with college degrees and good jobs!–who have done this!

I’d never heard of it before, but one lady (Protestant) told me, “Hey, I need to sell my house and I’ll leave no stone unturned!”

Perhaps it has something to do with the buyers’ market. It’s horrible to have to pay for two mortgages (we’d go broke in a few months). So people get desperate!

The Catholic Catechism forbids superstition (I just read it yesterday), but I guess I don’t see any harm in rabbit’s feet, lucky pennies, statues of St. Joseph, etc., unless the belief in the superstition rules a person’s life and causes them to delve into deeper magick and black arts. That’s the risk that people take when they open themselves up to any superstition.

But my daughters’ synchronized skating team had a mascot and a cheer, and almost all skaters have some “superstition” that they follow before they skate. I’ve never really thought of these as “superstitions,” but “rituals.” We all follow rituals–brush teeth, shower first, then eat breakfast and read the paper (or vice versa). Always hold your keys in your RIGHT hand when you exit a car so you don’t lock them inside. Always check the back seat of the car before you get inside (if you’re a woman especially. Call your mother at least once a day! etc. I don’t see any harm in rituals if they help to organize life.

 

[Grace_Seeker]

Who would get upset the most?

A. Asking a protestant to stop taking his Bible to Church?

or

B. Asking a Catholic to stop taking his Rosary to Mass?

Personal experience dictates A as the answer for me. You?

Here is an interesting commentary on your question:

In the movie “Karol: A Man Who Became Pope” there is a scene where Cardinal Wyszynski is arrested by the Soviets. He is told to collect his things and all he picks up is a rosary and a book. Do you think the book was a Bible or his brevary?

 

[MariaG]

No, I was not thinking of those ordinary Catholic practices with which I disagree. I was referring to the “folk religion” which is widespread and tolerated. I think that it is much more common among practicing Catholics than among practicing Protestants.

I am glad to hear that.

It may be more widespread among those *confessing *to be Catholic than those who confess to be Protestant, but you have a divergent culture. Catholics may not have set foot in church for 25 years and still call themselves Catholic. They have chosen to “keep” the “sacrametal-like” practices which are really no more that superstition.

Most former Protestants, stop refering to themselves as such.

I am surprised to hear that your priest has spoken clearly about St. Joseph Realty. I see that I was wrong and that such priests do exist

We are blessed by this current priest. He preaches on sin too! It may be because he was born and raised in India, he is more sensitive to the superstitious nature of things while priests who live in the US are not?

He also used language at the end of his homily, especially to the kids, like “Come and recieve Jesus into your heart anew through Holy Communion.” He uses common Protestant terms and puts them into a Catholic Christian context, so these kids will never be caught off guard by questions like “have you asked Jesus into your heart?” They can answer, “Yes!!”

God Bless,
Maria

 

[dessert]

Oh yes I remember a few services I was in and the word spoken was the most important thing but they very seldom had a long passage just a few sperts here and there not really connecting.

It jumped around so much and very seldom anything from the old testament as that is what I like about my parish is we read a Psalm every mass and take part in the response. In the protestant church the only response was an Amen. What you woke me!

One time there was a lot of bickering going on even during the service and this lady stood up and said so you think our youth don’t know the bible and so she had her son (about 16) stand up and recite an entire Chapter from Hebrews from memory. Everyone cheered and except for a one upmanship what was the point? That was my last sunday there.

Worship no.

---

Keep me Lord attentive at prayer, temperate in food and drink, diligent in my work, firm in my good intentions Pope Clement XI***

 

[Grace_Seeker]

Oh yes I remember a few services I was in and the word spoken was the most important thing but they very seldom had a long passage just a few sperts here and there not really connecting.

It jumped around so much and very seldom anything from the old testament as that is what I like about my parish is we read a Psalm every mass and take part in the response. In the protestant church the only response was an Amen. What you woke me!

One time there was a lot of bickering going on even during the service and this lady stood up and said so you think our youth don’t know the bible and so she had her son (about 16) stand up and recite an entire Chapter from Hebrews from memory. Everyone cheered and except for a one upmanship what was the point? That was my last sunday there.

Worship no.

---

Keep me Lord attentive at prayer, temperate in food and drink, diligent in my work, firm in my good intentions Pope Clement XI***

But there are also Protestant Churches that are very liturgical, that the service is designed around the prayers, that have the Eucharist every week, that read the lectionary assigned Psalm, Old Testament, Epsitle, and Gospel lesson every week.

My view on worship is that we ought to be able to worship God in any condition and circumstance. It isn’t about what the pastor/priest, choir, or congregation is doing. It is about what I am offering to God. If you don’t get anything out of it, it probably is because you aren’t putting anything in to it.

 

[dessert]

But there are also Protestant Churches that are very liturgical, that the service is designed around the prayers, that have the Eucharist every week, that read the lectionary assigned Psalm, Old Testament, Epsitle, and Gospel lesson every week.

My view on worship is that we ought to be able to worship God in any condition and circumstance. It isn’t about what the pastor/priest, choir, or congregation is doing. It is about what I am offering to God. If you don’t get anything out of it, it probably is because you aren’t putting anything in to it.

The vine has many branches, but if I was in a dead branch I am now glad I am in a living one. So go out into the world ready to follow Blessed Mother Teresa’s injunction “Be Jesus, share Jesus.” I can’t follow that up with anything better.

Meditation for Saturday 5 of May Happy Cinco de Mayo day after tommorrow
Have to get some sleep Dessert

 

[Mannyfit75]

The funny thing is, I don’t know any Catholics who bury statues of St. Joseph in the backyard to sell their house. But I know several Protestants–intelligent people with college degrees and good jobs!–who have done this!

You know I never knew that Catholics bury statues of St. Joseph to sell a house. I’ve been a Catholic for 31 yrs, neither I nor my parents have done any of that.

 

[Grace_Seeker]

The vine has many branches, but if I was in a dead branch I am now glad I am in a living one. So go out into the world ready to follow Blessed Mother Teresa’s injunction “Be Jesus, share Jesus.” I can’t follow that up with anything better.

 

[jmcrae]

But there are also Protestant Churches that are very liturgical, that the service is designed around the prayers, that have the Eucharist every week, that read the lectionary assigned Psalm, Old Testament, Epsitle, and Gospel lesson every week.

I’m sure they didn’t come up with that idea all by themselves. If they are imitating us, doesn’t that mean that what we have is better than what they had before?

My view on worship is that we ought to be able to worship God in any condition and circumstance. It isn’t about what the pastor/priest, choir, or congregation is doing. It is about what I am offering to God. If you don’t get anything out of it, it probably is because you aren’t putting anything in to it.

We can’t “worship God anywhere” because worship is a specific activity - in the case of Catholics, it’s the Mass - that requires a priest, a congregation, and a sacrifice - but we can certainly pray to God and read the Scriptures anywhere and at any time, and everyone should do so as often as they have the time.

 

[rr1213]

We can’t “worship God anywhere” because worship is a specific activity - in the case of Catholics, it’s the Mass - that requires a priest, a congregation, and a sacrifice - but we can certainly pray to God and read the Scriptures anywhere and at any time, and everyone should do so as often as they have the time.

Are you suggesting that worship is limited solely to the Mass, that one cannot worship God outside of that specific context? If so, that is a very confining understanding of worship and not an understanding that I believe to be true from either a scriptural or experiential standpoint.

 

[jmcrae]

Are you suggesting that worship is limited solely to the Mass, that one cannot worship God outside of that specific context? If so, that is a very confining understanding of worship and not an understanding that I believe to be true from either a scriptural or experiential standpoint.

For Catholics, worship happens at Mass.

I wasn’t commenting on how Protestants worship, since each group has its own concept of “priesthood” and “sacrifice.”

The necessary elements of worship are priest(s), congregation, and sacrifice.

 

[rr1213]

For Catholics, worship happens at Mass.

I wasn’t commenting on how Protestants worship, since each group has its own concept of “priesthood” and “sacrifice.”

The necessary elements of worship are priest(s), congregation, and sacrifice.

I disagree with you there. No doubt Catholics do worship at the Mass and, indeed, the Mass may be the preeminent means by which Catholics worship. Still, worship is a function of the mind, body and spirit and is not dependent on there being present a priest, congregation and sacrifice. Or, for that matter, that the person worship the True God. Certainly, both the Bible and history in general are replete with examples of people worshipping that which they should not worship. The definition you are offering is too limited.

 

[jmcrae]

I disagree with you there. No doubt Catholics do worship at the Mass and, indeed, the Mass may be the preeminent means by which Catholics worship. Still, worship is a function of the mind, body and spirit and is not dependent on there being present a priest, congregation and sacrifice.

Actually, it is, since that is the very definition of “worship.” We are given many examples of worship in the Old Testament, and they all contain at least a priest and a sacrifice - in some instances, there was no congregation, or rather, the congregation was absent - in Abraham’s case, when he worshipped God for the first time, he made the sacrifice of the covenant on behalf of people who weren’t even born yet - his descendants.

Or, for that matter, that the person worship the True God. Certainly, both the Bible and history in general are replete with examples of people worshipping that which they should not worship.

All with priests (or priestesses) and various different kinds of sacrifices. The first example of worship in the Old Testament is Abel’s meat sacrifice, being contrasted with Cain’s grain sacrifice.

The definition you are offering is too limited.

I think it’s possible that you are mistaking prayer or other forms of communication with God for worship.

We can pray at any time, and we can also communicate with God in other ways (through Scripture reading, meditation, etc.) at any time - these forms of communication are not forms of worship, though. Worship is only one of the possible forms of communication with God, and the only one that is absolutely required by Him.

 

[rr1213]

Interesting. I’m engaged in a discussion over at CARM where I’m trying to make the point to Protestant brethern that Catholics have a different understanding of “worship” than do Protestants and, I suppose, this is just another example of that point. Nonetheless, I think that the article below shows that, even from the Catholic perspective (as opposed to a Protestant or non-Catholic understanding), that worship of God extends beyond the Eucharist. I am not denying that the Eucharist is worship, indeed it is the best (purest?) example of worship. But it is not the only example. You were Protestant once. Are you telling me that you never worshipped God then? I doubt that you would have said so then and, I submit, that the narrow view of worship that you are offering now is not correct either.

newadvent.org/cathen/15710a.htm

 

[jmcrae]

Interesting. I’m engaged in a discussion over at CARM where I’m trying to make the point to Protestant brethern that Catholics have a different understanding of “worship” than do Protestants and, I suppose, this is just another example of that point. Nonetheless, I think that the article below shows that, even from the Catholic perspective (as opposed to a Protestant or non-Catholic understanding), that worship of God extends beyond the Eucharist. I am not denying that the Eucharist is worship, indeed it is the best (purest?) example of worship. But it is not the only example.

No, of course it’s not the only example.

You were Protestant once. Are you telling me that you never worshipped God then?

I believed that I was the priest, and I believed that the money that I put in the basket was the sacrifice. (At a certain level, I still think that was true. What I wasn’t doing was entering into Christ’s sacrifice; that was the imperfection, I think.)

I doubt that you would have said so then and, I submit, that the narrow view of worship that you are offering now is not correct either.

newadvent.org/cathen/15710a.htm

I tend to separate adoration from worship; they can be interconnected, but I don’t think that they always are. Obviously, worship that was not accompanied by adoration would be incomplete - that seems self-evident.

But one can adore without necessarily worshipping. Both worship and adoration belong only to God, of course.