Former Protestants: Do some Protestants worship the Bible as an Idol?

[Grace_Seeker]

For Catholics, worship happens at Mass.

I wasn’t commenting on how Protestants worship, since each group has its own concept of “priesthood” and “sacrifice.”

The necessary elements of worship are priest(s), congregation, and sacrifice.

But read your statement again: Worship happens at Mass. Yes I would concur, but you went farther than that, when you added: "The necessary elements of worship are priest(s), congregation, and sacrifice " you are in effect saying that worship happens only at Mass. I don’t think that is Biblical (or even in the historic tradition of the faith).

You say that even in the Old Testament worship included priests and sacrifice. Here is what God had to say about that worship:

Micah 6
6 With what shall I come before the LORD
and bow down before the exalted God?
Shall I come before him with burnt offerings,
with calves a year old?

7 Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams,
with ten thousand rivers of oil?
Shall I offer my firstborn for my transgression,
the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?

8 He has showed you, O man, what is good.
And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.

There is something that I would call a worshipful lifestyle. It was something practiced by generations of monks. Worship was much more than just the mass. Worship is part of all of life, recognize that God is there and living in such a way as to honor him by thought, word, and deed. What you propose is a very narrow definition of worship. Talk with your priest, I am sure he will help you see that it is indeed more than just the mass. If not, then talk to your bishop. And if not then then write that letter you were telling me about to the Pope, for you don’t want to be worshiping some place that teaches contrary to the truth. And in truth, the mass is one form of worship, but worship is much more than just the mass.

 

[jmcrae]

But read your statement again: Worship happens at Mass. Yes I would concur, but you went farther than that, when you added: "The necessary elements of worship are priest(s), congregation, and sacrifice " you are in effect saying that worship happens only at Mass. I don’t think that is Biblical (or even in the historic tradition of the faith).

In early Bible times, before the Levitical priesthood came into being, every father of the family and every single male was his own priest. Abraham was not a Levite, but he was certainly a priest, and he made sacrifices to God on behalf of his family and his descendants - this was worship.

The priest Melchizedek prefigured Christian worship by making an offering of bread and wine in thanksgiving for Abraham’s military successes.

Many Protestants believe in the priesthood of all believers (and so do Catholics, in a certain sense - we are all baptized priests, prophets, and kings, after all) and they join their offerings of time, talent and treasure to the prayers of their services of worship.

You say that even in the Old Testament worship included priests and sacrifice. Here is what God had to say about that worship:

Yes - God says that worship is not as important as hearts that love him (adoration). This is true. And worship without love (adoration) is unworthy of Him, for sure.

There is something that I would call a worshipful lifestyle. It was something practiced by generations of monks. Worship was much more than just the mass. Worship is part of all of life, recognize that God is there and living in such a way as to honor him by thought, word, and deed.

I think that you are talking about holiness of life. Worship is absolutely a necessary part of that, for sure.

 

[The_Truthinator]

Hmm … Protestants place great, great emphasis on the Word … And yes, sadly, even the written Word. They can, indeed, become so absorbed in a Bible that they forget it was never about the book, but the Word itself.

I can recall becoming distressed upon finding a typo in my Bible. I shared this half-jokingly with my discipleship leader, who in turn, smiled and said, “God promised us his Word would be inerrant, not some book whose pages it was printed on …”

Now, it is often noted in the New Covenant books that God created through Christ, and when ones takes into consideration John 1, it is easy to see that Christ was the creating agent otherwise known as Logos, the Word itself, by which, as even the Old Covenant books proclaim, the world and its foundations were established.

Yeshua Messiah, the Son, is therefore indeed equivalent to the Word of God; they are, we see, One and the Same. HOWEVER, he is not to be equated with the written Word, as this can be the difference between worshiping God and the glorious Good News his mouth proclaims, or a book and its letters.

Now, the Word mustn’t be de-emphasized. After all, it is able to instruct us in inerrant Truth and help us to discern God’s voice from the world’s, as well. But indeed, each is given a personal revelation, and to many different believers, one passage many mean countless different things, depending on their situations. It (the Word itself, not the Bible) IS living, breathing … in the sense that the same Spirit who inspired it is. Yet within the heart of the believer, the Word takes many shapes, many forms, and is seen and experienced in many different ways.

This excessive emphasis on the book is part of the reason my discipleship leader and I are working hard on memorization. That way, we can carry the Word with us always, in our minds, and, more importantly, our hearts …

 

[Sixtus]

]

the St. Joseph superstition where Catholics refer to it as common knowledge,."

New one on me, never heard of that one before

I have a Catholic customer, a rich, world-travelled, well educated lady, who had a hard time selling her house. I asked her with a smile (she knows I’m a fundamentalist) “Did you bury an image of St. Joseph in the yard?” She shot back "Damn right I did!

I have a pile of old decrepit footwear I am trying to sell but no-one wants to buy it, I was wondering if I should bury a picture of St Shanks’ Pony?

 

[Singinbeauty]

We can’t “worship God anywhere” because worship is a specific activity - in the case of Catholics, it’s the Mass - that requires a priest, a congregation, and a sacrifice - but we can certainly pray to God and read the Scriptures anywhere and at any time, and everyone should do so as often as they have the time.

Is this a typical viewpoint of the catholic faith? To me that is sad to say that you can’t worship God anywhere at anytime. I worship God in my car, my workplace, my home, my church, and anywhere else I can think of. Since God is a part of me how can I not worship Him in every aspect of my life? It’s one of the things I am finding so hard to grasp about the catholic faith. A lot of things are just so tight and rigid. I see God differently I guess…

 

[lak611]

Hmm … Protestants place great, great emphasis on the Word … And yes, sadly, even the written Word. They can, indeed, become so absorbed in a Bible that they forget it was never about the book, but the Word itself.

I can recall becoming distressed upon finding a typo in my Bible. I shared this half-jokingly with my discipleship leader, who in turn, smiled and said, “God promised us his Word would be inerrant, not some book whose pages it was printed on …”

Now, it is often noted in the New Covenant books that God created through Christ, and when ones takes into consideration John 1, it is easy to see that Christ was the creating agent otherwise known as Logos, the Word itself, by which, as even the Old Covenant books proclaim, the world and its foundations were established.

Yeshua Messiah, the Son, is therefore indeed equivalent to the Word of God; they are, we see, One and the Same. HOWEVER, he is not to be equated with the written Word, as this can be the difference between worshiping God and the glorious Good News his mouth proclaims, or a book and its letters.

Now, the Word mustn’t be de-emphasized. After all, it is able to instruct us in inerrant Truth and help us to discern God’s voice from the world’s, as well. But indeed, each is given a personal revelation, and to many different believers, one passage many mean countless different things, depending on their situations. It (the Word itself, not the Bible) IS living, breathing … in the sense that the same Spirit who inspired it is. Yet within the heart of the believer, the Word takes many shapes, many forms, and is seen and experienced in many different ways.

This excessive emphasis on the book is part of the reason my discipleship leader and I are working hard on memorization. That way, we can carry the Word with us always, in our minds, and, more importantly, our hearts …

Excellent post.

 

[The_Truthinator]

Is this a typical viewpoint of the catholic faith? To me that is sad to say that you can’t worship God anywhere at anytime. I worship God in my car, my workplace, my home, my church, and anywhere else I can think of. Since God is a part of me how can I not worship Him in every aspect of my life? It’s one of the things I am finding so hard to grasp about the catholic faith. A lot of things are just so tight and rigid. I see God differently I guess…

We may worship even now … Worship is the glorifying and prasing of God, of attributing to him the worth he deserves … . Therefore, here and now, I am worshiping. It is not a complicated matter, but a simple one. And I know my God well enough to realize that he is indignant whenever we are NOT glorifying and praising him. God expects us to live out our faith at all times, you see, not just at Mass or in a service.

 

[Cat]

I haven’t heard the teaching that Catholics worship God only in Mass.

In fact, this seems to contradict what Mass is. The word “Mass” is from the Latin missa, which has to do with “mission” or “sending” or “dismissal”.

This implies that the Mass “continues” after we are dismissed and leave the church.

I was taught that the Eucharist, Christ’s Body and Blood, that I receive at Mass fills me until the next Mass. There is no need for me to constantly receive Christ in the Blessed Sacrament.

Again, this implies that Mass is a continuing “experience” for a Christian, one that continues even after the dismissal. The Word of God continues to burn in our hearts even after we leave the Church. The offerings that we brought to the Lord are taken up and used by Him as we requested. The songs that we sang are in our hearts and we continue to sing and make melody to each other. The Eucharist, Jesus, that we receive continues to be our strength and joy. It doesn’t end just because we have left the Mass liturgy.

And the worship that we offered in the Mass, we continue to offer until we meet again at the next Mass.

We were “dismissed” by the priest or deacon to “love and serve the Lord.” It seems that in doing that, we are continuing to “worship” the Lord. It is not through “liturgy” anymore, but through love and service to God and our neighbors.

In other words, Mass isn’t just an hour of worship, followed by a week or a day of no worship. It seems to me that somehow, through the grace of God, the worship continues until the next Mass, just as I receive grace until the next Mass. It doesn’t just end and my “non-Mass life” or “secular” life begins. All of my life is tied together from Mass to Mass.

I don’t think I am expressing this very well. Perhaps there is a more learned Catholic who can explain what I am trying to describe.

 

[Allweather]

I don’t agree that Mass is the only place of worship. It is certainly a very primary worship, centered as it is on the Eucharist. But worship has a much wider meaning to me, and I think also to most others I know. Worship is a mindset, a constant turning towards God throughout the day, in good moments and bad. My dictionary has the following entry:

Main Entry:1wor£ship
Pronunciation:wr-sh*p also wr-
Function:noun
Etymology:Middle English worshipe worthiness, respect, reverence paid to a divine being, from Old English weorthscipe worthiness, respect, from weorth worthy, worth + -scipe -ship
Date:before 12th century

1 chiefly British : a person of importance — used as a title for various officials (as magistrates and some mayors)
2 : reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also : an act of expressing such reverence
3 : a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual
4 : extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem worship of the dollar

I think we reverence God best when we give our lives over to Him in entirety. Every little moment of ours is precious to God, and should be to us as well. Every moment of life is a precious gift of God, and when we acknowledge Him in everything, that is worship.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Is this a typical viewpoint of the catholic faith? To me that is sad to say that you can’t worship God anywhere at anytime. I worship God in my car, my workplace, my home, my church, and anywhere else I can think of. Since God is a part of me how can I not worship Him in every aspect of my life? It’s one of the things I am finding so hard to grasp about the catholic faith. A lot of things are just so tight and rigid. I see God differently I guess…

No it isn’t. The purest Catholic form of worship is the Mass. For we offer sacrifice the Body and Blood of the Lord to God the Father.

The priest say, “In memory of his death and resurrection, we offer you, Father, this life-giving bread, this saving cup. We thank you for counting us worthy to stand in your presence and serve you. May all of us who share in the body and blood of Christ be brought together in unity by the Holy Spirit”

It isn’t resacrificing though. It is to make a presence of the Word Incarnate amongst us.

We can pray God anywhere. I pray the Liturgy of the Hour one in the morning and one in the evening. If time permit me I will make a devotion prayer of the rosary, or the Divine Mercy Chaplet.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

True. I take mine to church for the same reason.

But, it would not adversely affect me, if I was asked not to bring my Bible anymore. Can you say the same? Can you say the same for a stereotypical Fundamentalist or Evangelical?

Hi,
Im an evangelical and it would not bother me because I dont bring my bible in to church.
Have I failed as a good bible tottin evangelical NOW!!

Have I let anyone down

 

[Cat]

My husband just got home from a business trip, and we had a fun chat on this topic.

He heard a radio talk (Protestant) making it clear that some Protestants do worship the Bible.

As for why Protestants bring their BIbles to church. They are taught that they can’t trust the man in the pulpit. They must always check the Word of God for themselves, not just rely on a “man’s” interpretation. That man (or woman) up in the pulpit might be misleading them, either unintentionally or even deliberately. Each Christian is responsible to check out what everyone says, and rely on the Holy Spirit for the correct interpretation. So that means bringing the Bible along and checking out everything.

Interestingly, this is what I did when I first started attending mass. I brought my Bible for the express purpose of catching untruths.

I’m not kidding, everyone. It’s Protestant-think. Never put your trust in men. Always study it for yourself and check it out with God.

And ALLFORHIM, you’re lucky. In our Evangelical Free church, people who didn’t carry Bibles to church were considered “non-Christian.” Are you sure you’re not in a “cult?”

 

[ALLFORHIM]

And ALLFORHIM, you’re lucky. In our Evangelical Free church, people who didn’t carry Bibles to church were considered “non-Christian.” Are you sure you’re not in a “cult?”

LOL----Actually not too many of us do because we already have bibles in all the chairs.

Our church doesnt judge like that. Interesting what you said about checking the minister out. Our minister every once in awhile will tell us if we do not agree with his teaching to look it up in the bible see what the word of God says and if we still disagree to make an appt. with him to hash it out, using the bible of course. Ive never had to do this ,thankfully.
We are given sermon outlines with all the bible verses mentioned so we can go back and reflect at another time if we so desire. I love those outlines because it has helped me teach some biblical truths to my kids and others:thumbsup:

 

[jmcrae]

Is this a typical viewpoint of the catholic faith? To me that is sad to say that you can’t worship God anywhere at anytime. I worship God in my car, my workplace, my home, my church, and anywhere else I can think of. Since God is a part of me how can I not worship Him in every aspect of my life? It’s one of the things I am finding so hard to grasp about the catholic faith. A lot of things are just so tight and rigid. I see God differently I guess…

I can pray to God, talk to God, sing to God, read the Bible, do the Divine Office, meditate and listen for His voice, etc., anywhere, and any time.

Worship is not the only activity that we can do with God - there are also all of these other wonderful things that we can do, too - in addition to worshipping Him every single day of the week at Mass, as well.

Just curious, how do you worship God in your car? What do you use as your Sacrifice, and where do you put it? (Do you burn it in the ashtray?)

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I can pray to God, talk to God, sing to God, read the Bible, do the Divine Office, meditate and listen for His voice, etc., anywhere, and any time.

Worship is not the only activity that we can do with God - there are also all of these other wonderful things that we can do, too - in addition to worshipping Him every single day of the week at Mass, as well.

Just curious, how do you worship God in your car? What do you use as your Sacrifice, and where do you put it? (Do you burn it in the ashtray?)

Hi,
So by you or the CC’s definition of worship= sacrificing something. Am I correct in how I am perceiving that?

 

[jmcrae]

Hi,
So by you or the CC’s definition of worship= sacrificing something. Am I correct in how I am perceiving that?

Yes, “worship” is when a priest makes a sacrifice to God on behalf of a congregation (they may be present at the time, or they may be absent - in Abraham’s case, they weren’t even born yet).

In the Mass we join our imperfect sacrifice of bread and wine to the perfect sacrifice of Christ on the Cross, and He becomes fully present under the appearances of the bread and wine (which have been removed) Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity. When we (priest and congregation) consume what appears to be bread and wine, we are really uniting ourselves both materially and spiritually with the living Christ Himself.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Yes, “worship” is when a priest makes a sacrifice to God on behalf of a congregation (they may be present at the time, or they may be absent - in Abraham’s case, they weren’t even born yet).

In the Mass we join our imperfect sacrifice of bread and wine to the perfect sacrifice of Christ on the Cross, and He becomes fully present under the appearances of the bread and wine (which have been removed) Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity. When we (priest and congregation) consume what appears to be bread and wine, we are really uniting ourselves both materially and spiritually with the living Christ Himself.

Hi,
Thank you for your definition.
I was wondering how the CC reconciles what you just said with what Paul says in Romans 12
Living Sacrifices
1Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual[a] act of worship. 2Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
3For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you. 4Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. 6We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man’s gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his**faith. 7If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; 8if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.

Love
9Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. 10Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves. 11Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. 12Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. 13Share with God’s people who are in need. Practice hospitality.
14Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position.[c] Do not be conceited.

17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[d]says the Lord. 20On the contrary:
“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”[e] 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Verse one is pretty clear(well to me anyway) and the rest of the chapter pretty much tells us how we are to sacrifice ourselves.

So when I am doing God’s Will for me I am worshipping Him. I also believe that when I keep my mouth shut instead of spewing something bad, I am worshipping Christ because I sacrificed my fleshly desire to act poorly and did not cave to sin but conquered sin(in that moment anyway ) By Romans 12 definition, I sacrifice and worship God many many many times a day all day long. :extrahappy:

What does the CC say about this?**

 

[jmcrae]

What does the CC say about this?

I think it sounds like a perfect description of Catholic Sainthood.

 

[Fred_4]

In my experience, I’ve never known anyone, protestant or otherwise, to worship the Bible. Fundementalist/evangelical Christians hold the Bible to be very dear as it’s the only thing they have to get them to God. No church, as Catholics understand the church, no sacraments, no saving baptism, no saints interceding etc. Just the Bible. It’s all they have and they cling to it as someone washed overboard (perhaps from the barque of Peter?) would cling to driftwood. Not that I’m equating the Bible to driftwood… I understand it’s a faulty metaphor.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I think it sounds like a perfect description of Catholic Sainthood.

So then are you saying we (who are in Christ) are Saints?

Im anxiously awaiting your answer.:bounce: