Former spiritual director of 'Medjugorje visionaries' excommunicated

[Inbonum]

I don’t because other things are in book published by diocese which isn’t in English. I also don’t have time atm and I am leaving CAF now.
Third quote is about why one didn’t enter.

Also, it is too long to quote everything and quoted document is available on web page.

 

[Polak]

I also don’t have time atm and I am leaving CAF now.

Ok no problem. For good?

I’m still unsure of what exactly is being done different to Tomislav Vlasic with the excommunication. Are you not pretty much excommunicated when you are laicized?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Are you not pretty much excommunicated when you are laicized?

No.

Priests are laicized frequently at their own request. Many priests seek to be laicized in order to marry, and often if their request to be laicized is granted, they marry in the Church. In other cases priests are laicized involuntarily, for example if they committed sexual abuse on a minor, but they aren’t kicked out of the Church. They are free to repent, confess, and be lay Catholics receiving the normal sacraments; they just can’t exercise their priestly ministries again. There has even been at least one case of a priest who was laicized in order to marry a sister he met, they were married, had some kids and lived many years together till she died, then somehow he was un-laicized and returned to parish priesthood.

Excommunication means you are in a state of serious sin and can’t receive the sacraments at all until the excommunication is lifted. It’s a separate matter from laicization, although obviously a priest who is excommunicated can’t celebrate Mass as he would need to receive Holy Communion and is not allowed to do so.

 

[Polak]

There has even been at least one case of a priest who was laicized in order to marry a sister he met, they were married, had some kids and lived many years together till she died, then somehow he was un-laicized and returned to parish priesthood.

Really? I wonder how on earth they allowed that to happen.

Excommunication means you are in a state of serious sin and can’t receive the sacraments at all until the excommunication is lifted. It’s a separate matter from laicization, although obviously a priest who is excommunicated can’t celebrate Mass as he would need to receive Holy Communion and is not allowed to do so.

Ah okay. Well given that he has now been excommunicated because he failed to respect being laicized, I do wonder if he is just going to do the same with this excommunication and continue doing what he is doing. I assume there isn’t a tougher punishment from the Church than excommunication.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Really? I wonder how on earth they allowed that to happen.

He was invited back to the priesthood by the bishop, I believe.

I would imagine the priest shortage in USA helped to encourage this. If they had plenty of priests, they wouldn’t be making these sorts of special arrangements, I reckon.

On the one hand I didn’t object to him returning to the priesthood where he was supposed to have been all along, but on the other hand, the newspaper story about this made it all sound like a sweet and wonderful romantic story instead of the horrors of two people breaking their vows.

I do wonder if he is just going to do the same with this excommunication and continue doing what he is doing.

Sadly, it seems likely he’ll just continue as he has been doing.

I assume there isn’t a tougher punishment from the Church than excommunication.

Nope. Excommunication is supposed to be a medicinal punishment anyway. If the priest became ill or something they would likely be sending friendly priests to see him to try to get him back in communion with the Church before he died, like what happened with Fr. Feeney.

 

[Legend]

It may help to learn more about the history of the church in Bosnia, especially the Franciscans. The Franciscans entered the area centuries ago. They evangelized for centuries…building the first churches.

But, as is the custom when the catholic Christian population becomes stable, the Vatican made the usual moves; they appointed a bishop, who would was expected to appoint a secular clergy. Unsurprisingly, the Franciscans, or at least a significant number of them, were not pleased!

In 1975,Pope Paul ordered the Bosnian church to allow the bishop to appoint secular clergy. Things were still going slowly in 1981. Then…Medjugorje!

So, things have been tense all along. Vlasic was a Franciscan. In the early days of the ‘visions’ many books and pamphlets were written and published, demonizing the bishops, who were only trying to obey the Vatican. The split from Yugoslavia, and the general influence of the communist leaders, exacerbated the situation!

The lies and half truths told about bishops, Franciscans, and seers made it almost impossible to get a clear picture of what was going on. Even now, I can’t find an official statement as to what the new Bishop says about the visions. Personally, I don’t think anything supernatural is going on now. But, since the COVID crisis, all I could find that isn’t disputed are that there is a new bishop, and that Mirjana has announced the end of her monthly visions. An interesting fact? The new Bishop is 48 years old, so will probably be in office for a long time. It would seem irresponsible for him to be appointed, without the Vatican knowing what his views are.

As I said before, it looks like COVID and other factors are leaving things open for belief in these ‘visions’ to die a natural death. Archbishop Hozer, the ‘apostolic visitor’ appointed by the Pope, seems to take a positive view. But he, the Pope, and others in authority have made it clear that his job is purely pastoral, that his job is to look after the pilgrims who visit-not to investigate the seers and so-called visions. Here’s hoping that a decision will be made by the Vatican, and that, without propagating untruths, those in the merchandise and tourism industries do not have to suffer much, (as many came of age after the ‘visions’ began), and the economy of the area is not badly damaged.

 

[Inbonum]

You summarised big part of history into pretty small post
Yeah, msg. Hoser is there for pastoral questions and not for investigation of apparitions itself.

I can’t find an official statement as to what the new Bishop says about the visions.

New bishop has same views as his two predecessors. He didn’t make any new official statements on Medj but he said this in interview with Catholic journalist. It is reliable.
You can read page with translator on your browser.

What will be your attitude as the Bishop of Mostar towards Medjugorje?

In addition to the statements of my predecessors, the only official statement about Medjugorje is the statement of the bishops of Yugoslavia from 1991, in which the bishops said that “based on previous research, it cannot be stated that these are supernatural apparitions and revelations.”
In the same statement, the bishops also stated that “numerous gatherings of believers from various parts who come to Medjugorje to encourage religious and some other motives require attention and pastoral care, primarily of the diocesan bishop, and with him other bishops, in order to Medjugorje, and in connection with it, promoted a healthy devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary, in accordance with the teachings of the Church. "
At this moment, the Holy See is following the events in Medjugorje through the apostolic visitor. It will be my obligation to follow the instructions of the Holy See.
Mons. Palić: Crkvi u Hercegovini ne treba ‘Daytonski sporazum’, nego odgovornost i razboritost - www.vecernji.ba

 

[Legend]

Thank you for posting this!

I guess my browser doesn’t pick up translations…although it translated this document almost immediately. It’s good to know that this bishop is sticking with sound doctrine, while respecting diocesan and Franciscan clergy, alike. It’s also good to know that many Franciscans regret getting in the way of a reasonable request from the Vatican. It’s not like they were being ordered to leave, or have no further say, but just to let the bishops carry out the order of the Pope.

 

[silentwitness]

I am not a supporter of the Medjugorje claims but respect highly those Catholics, especially Croatian Catholics, who take them seriously in their faith.

 

[Inbonum]

I think that his conclusion is pretty logical because of everything that happened /is happening around Medj apparitions and Franciscans. Also, Church investigates private apparitions very well. New bishop is in hard position because everyone expect from him to resolve Medj and Franciscan Question (which was never resolved unfortunately) while people are disobedient. Majority of people expected that new bishop is gonna approve apparitions but he didn’t. So now it seems that people will maybe understand that there was no any biased decision made by last 3 bishops.
I think that pope made wise decision with new bishop .

It’s also good to know that many Franciscans regret getting in the way of a reasonable request from the Vatican. It’s not like they were being ordered to leave, or have no further say, but just to let the bishops carry out the order of the Pope.

When last bishop tried to implement pope’s decision on Franciscan Question he was abducted by local Catholics. I don’t know how that can be act of love for Church.

 

[Legend]

Yes! I heard about that abduction! It was about his refusal to bless a building, wasn’t it? That was going to be used to promote the ‘visions’?

But it seems that that’s the exception, not the rule. As to supporters who are respectable and seem to be reasonable…it seems that those people get more exposure. There are also several sites that don’t even try to hide the fact that their purpose is to promote the visions, not investigate them.

But, I have noticed that it is hard to find objective answers online. Especially since the COVID scare!

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

What bothers me about Medjugorie is that whereas the seers of Lourdes and Fatima and other places all suffered or entered religious communities (or both), the seers of medjugorie seem to have gone on to lead comfortable or even more than comfortable bourgeois lives.

See, I’m okay with that.

But what got me was the footage of one of the seers was supposedly in a trance and somebody touched her face and she reacted.

Which is fine.

But she said the reason she reacted was not because she felt something on her face, but because the Blessed Mother was about to drop the Baby Jesus.

 

[Inbonum]

It was in Mostar (center of diocese), when he wanted to implement decision to hand over parishes to diocesan priests and then he was abducted and detained, in middle of day.
After that, people bricked up the door of the church in Capljina so that he could not enter.
Then on one occasion he was violently expelled from the church during the Mass of the Sacrament of Confirmation, he had to give Sacrament at the local post office.
Someone would say this is science fiction… But it is truly sad.

The promoters of Medjugorje use the Franciscan question as an argument that the bishop is horrible and is stealing parishes from the good Franciscans. In fact, the bishop is only doing what the Vatican has decided. I don’t know how it is possible to “kidnap” parishes. If Vatican has decided so and has been asking for 55 years for the decision to be implemented, then it must be obeyed.

As to supporters who are respectable and seem to be reasonable…it seems that those people get more exposure.

I’ve never met live any promoter who hasn’t attacked others because they don’t believe it, online I did and those people were normal but they are outside Balkan.
I have heard threaten that xy person will burn in Hell because she doesn’t believe or that I have to listen everything from messages otherwise I am disobedient… Honestly, I see it is a spiritual disorder.
I think biggest problem is that people here are not properly cathecised on true meaning of obedience, meaning of apparitions and why they are not necessary for salvation. And why every apparition doesn’t have origin in God.

There are also several sites that don’t even try to hide the fact that their purpose is to promote the visions, not investigate them.

But, I have noticed that it is hard to find objective answers online. Especially since the COVID scare!

Well investigation falls on local bishop, he is first authority on it. Of course if Vatican has to be involved because of xy reason then they are too.

Only site that is credible on apparitions is actually official page of diocese. I posted it in some post above. There is like billion pages which promote it, most of them in very misleading way and some of them are not even Catholic…

 

[Inbonum]

I saw that video… If she wanted to catch Jesus, she should have leaned forward, not backward, right?
Whenever I saw footage of the apparitions, especially these newer ones I didn’t feel comfortable, there was something weird. Maybe that’s just my impression.

 

[YADA]

Really? I wonder how on earth they allowed that to happen.

I am not sure about Tis_Bearself’s priest - but I knew a priest [may he rest in peace] who said he’d felt a priestly vocation but instead went into the Air Force where a priest encouraged his vocation - but he struggled against it. After his service he entered seminary and became a priest. A few years after becoming a priest, he fell in love with a divorced woman with children. He requested his bishop to be laicized and they married. He adopted her children and they had two together. He worked for a Catholic University. She died after a multi year battle with cancer. After he was widowed he approached the Bishop because he had always felt that calling - it had never left him even during his marriage. His marriage was happy and he loved his family deeply. The Bishop sent him to Seminary for several years of discernment [one concern was that this was a response to his grief in loosing his wife]. He came back to the active priesthood four years after his wife’s passing at the age of 69 and served as a priest until his death 11+ years later at the age of 80.

I can tell you that he was very beloved by his parishioners and I found him to be very devout and a man who loved his faith, the Church and our Lord. He was a man who served and cared for others.

 

[Legend]

If everyone had done what they were supposed to do from the beginning, (obeying the local bishops)we wouldn’t have all this confusion!

Of course, the local bishop is the first one to ask…but the first two were summarily demonized for it!

Some of the visionaries were saying that Mary said ‘the bishop has no love for God in his heart’! Then, people physically attack him! I’m pretty sure that, until they repent, those who physically attack a bishop are considered excommunicated.

I read some other things about Capilina(sp?). Do you know that, after bricking up the church door, when it was time for confirmation for a large group of Young people(about 500, I believe), instead of humbling themselves before the bishop, and asking him to do what is his job, they invited a ‘bishop who said he came from a far-away land’. It turns out, he was from Switzerland, and the highest rank he had ever held was as a deacon of the Old Catholic church! I don’t think the Franciscans ‘in charge’ even kept a record of this man’s name! When things quieted down a bit, I think the real bishop was called in!

Strange how it’s hard to keep different stories in order. Yes, I remember Vicka flinching and explaining herself by saying that the Blessed Mother was about to drop baby Jesus! And people believed her!

I think, as I have for quite a while now, that the only reason this is tolerated is because of the economy. And the fact that this has been going on for so long, honest, hardworking people who never knew Medj without ‘visions’ are making a living on tourism, trinkets, and chances to see the ‘seers’ in ecstasy.

I hope that this bishop does something about it.

 

[Legend]

Oh…I never heard of this ‘post office’ communion!
Just shows how things really got out of hand! This new bishop is going to need a lot of prayer!

And for those who know ‘nice’ people who believe in the visions…well, there are nice people everywhere! It’s just that many have grown up not knowing Medj without visions. And, yes, there are older people too, who never believed otherwise. Being wrong doesn’t keep anyone from being nice. Nor does being right automatically make people likeable. Unfortunately, we have to decide a lot for ourselves. But, I would remember…a local bishop is considered ‘right’ about signs and wonders in his own diocese!

 

[Inbonum]

I read some other things about Capilina(sp?). Do you know that, after bricking up the church door, when it was time for confirmation for a large group of Young people(about 500, I believe), instead of humbling themselves before the bishop, and asking him to do what is his job, they invited a ‘bishop who said he came from a far-away land’. It turns out, he was from Switzerland, and the highest rank he had ever held was as a deacon of the Old Catholic church! I don’t think the Franciscans ‘in charge’ even kept a record of this man’s name! When things quieted down a bit, I think the real bishop was called in!

Yes.
One year, one of suspended friars dressed in bishop’s robes and with help of other friars administered the Sacrament of Confirmation. Around 150 people received Sacraments. Mostly parents, godparents and children (Invalid Mass and Sacrament of Confirmation). Some time after another non-Catholic priest administered another Sacrament of Confirmation but this time without any bishop’s robes. He did it with those friars who administered first invalid sacraments. And after that the real bishop had to do it again.
Friar-assistants of the fake bishop(s) were then suspended a divinis and some were laicised in the end.
http://www.ktabkbih.net/hr/vijesti/priopenje-o-nevaljanoj-krizmi-u-grudama/7400

Pure mess.

And, yes, there are older people too, who never believed otherwise. Being wrong doesn’t keep anyone from being nice. Nor does being right automatically make people likeable.

I completely agree with you.

But, I would remember…a local bishop is considered ‘right’ about signs and wonders in his own diocese!

You can read more about it here
https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/...cfaith_doc_19780225_norme-apparizioni_en.html

 

[Legend]

Thank you for the links and info. I guess I was trying too hard to find the ‘right’ info. I knew that one ‘seer’ had stopped having monthly visions. Since I had already come to the conclusion that any ‘visions’ had stopped long ago-if there had actually been any-I really only needed the links to the diocese and the Vatican. Still, the strange stories held my interest!

But, the possibility of the Blessed Mother dropping baby Jesus is a bit much. An insult to just about anyone’s intelligence. Yet some people believe it! Strange…

 

[Inbonum]

Still, the strange stories held my interest!

Balkans are really messy place. Often you don’t know if you would laugh or cry.

But, the possibility of the Blessed Mother dropping baby Jesus is a bit much. An insult to just about anyone’s intelligence. Yet some people believe it! Strange…

Don’t want comment too much that event but if someone finds it worth of belief then he will believe it no matter what. It is interesting thing with unapproved private revelations. One would rather be expelled from order or excommunicated than stop with activities which bishop don’t approve.
I pray that all those people will come back and accept legitimate decisions of Church.